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-   -   Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16994)

Mike Sigman 10-20-2009 03:31 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 243491)
I make it easy. I don't recommend anyone. I tell people to go out and feel and make their own choices. Then they own their choices.
Why? It's the only way I currently know to be fair and open about it

I'm tell 'em the same thing. And I always suggest that it's very important to find a guy they like and who seems like a nice guy, because that's how so much progress was made over the last 30 or so years. People I like and I think are serious, I give the best advice I can. :D

FWIW

Mike Sigman

brian p 10-20-2009 03:57 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Jun Akiyama wrote: (Post 243360)
Hi folks,

Let's keep criticisms of other websites off of here, please. I don't think such discussions are necessary here.

Thanks,

-- Jun

Thank you ma'am. EF.net's management feels the same way.

Ernesto Lemke 10-20-2009 04:04 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Robert M Watson Jr wrote: (Post 243488)
By all means send in some names! I know there are a great number of folks willing to travel far and wide to get IT.

I didn't mean to suggest I had any names or suggestions in mind myself when I made that remark. Actually, I was sorta hoping to stumble on the European equivalent, caliber wise that is by reputation and both physical and verbal testimony, of those that are considered 'authoritive' in the US. Two of which who are posting on this very thread.

Doing the rounds is costly both financially and time and energy wise. I wouldn't go out of my way to train with a mere 'someone' unless I had it on good grounds it'd be worth the investement. So although I can see the benefit in feeling other people, I'd choose spending time focusing on what I'm currently doing over the mere change to encounter something beneficial any ol' day.
Cheers

Ernesto Lemke

Rob Watson 10-20-2009 05:52 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Dan Harden wrote: (Post 243491)
Thats the hard part though. As Mike pointed out above- how do you recommend; based on what/ For me, when I look at all of it the things I have felt and or have seen:
1. There are guys with a lot of power but maybe it is quasi-internal simple frame stuff. Make no mistake it can be tons of power but it is incomplete
2. There are guys with soft jujutsu-this includes a few ICMA teachers who like to talk about internal power, but they really don't have a clue. They are confusing people (who don't know any better) with their soft jujutsu They can toss you like no ones business- but it's not IP/aiki
3. There are guys with internal power, but lack the skill in using it in fluid resistance at speed. They are hobbyists.
4. There are guys with IP who really cannot teach it well
5. There are guys with only a fraction of the big picture but who can teach what they know really well
6. And any number of folks in-between in all of the above.

I make it easy. I don't recommend anyone. I tell people to go out and feel and make their own choices. Then they own their choices.
Why? It's the only way I currently know to be fair and open about it
Cheers
Dan

Hello Mr. Harden,
Yup, kind of what pushed me over the edge and make this thread was your seminar for instructors (at least that seems to be the message I got from the postings of late). I'm trying to figure out who was there and if any of those folks are nearer to my location.

Now, if you would just be so kind as post a list of names .... I don't worry about fair and open but for now I would prefer someone that has been to your seminar or spent some time at 'the barn'.

Eventually I'll run through the list I've got so far and see if any of those folks will answer "been to the barn or seminar-know anybody who has?" and of they are willing to share. I'm pretty sure there are more folks that have been to the seminar and/or 'barnside' than are on the list so far ...

For now I've got the host of folks that go through seminars at ADV (Ikeda, Gleason, Angier, Ledyard). I'm looking for more than seminars as well (once a year ain't gonna cut it).

Thanks

thisisnotreal 10-20-2009 09:21 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Brian Phillips wrote: (Post 243530)
Thank you ma'am. EF.net's management feels the same way.

Hi Brian, fyi; Jun is a `sir` and not a ma'am.

Ron Tisdale 10-21-2009 10:14 AM

Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?
 
Kool, thanks, maybe if I get up that way we can look him up...and thanks to you too Mark!
B,
R
Quote:

Greg Steckel wrote: (Post 243523)
Hey Ron, looks like he is my backyard...

Greg


Rob Watson 10-30-2009 02:03 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

I didn't mean to suggest I had any names or suggestions in mind myself when I made that remark.
Lest there be any confusion: The list I posted is not a recommendation by me (I have less than limited skills in this area) or anyone else. I compiled a list of folks that had been mentioned to be participants in a Dan Harden seminar. Also, folks that had previously been mentioned as possessing some significant aspect of IP/aiki and willing to teach.

I invited others to add to the list.

I only mention Dan Harden by name because he has gone out of his way to take on instructing aikido folks that are going to go on and teach what they learn in the aikido community (at least that is the impression I have of the events/comments). Originally, I wanted to know who these folks are and how can I get my hands on them. That is all.

I admit my choice of phrasing was poor (IT club, don't talk about IT club, etc) as this carries much more baggage than my feeble attempt at humor intended-my sense of frustration is captured pretty well.

Dan Harden holds seminar for aikido instructors! Who are they? That is all. I just wish more of them were closer to me so I could get more direct and regular contact. I'm selfish that way.

Robert Cowham 11-11-2009 12:43 PM

Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?
 
For a rather different take on IT I would recommend Peter Ralston and Cheng Hsin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ILczURN99k

There are a variety of aikido people who have trained with him for varying lengths of time.

http://chenghsin.com/chenghsin-main.html

Rob Watson 11-12-2009 01:51 PM

Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?
 
...

Robert Cowham 11-12-2009 05:20 PM

Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?
 
Re Peter Ralston, I have felt an uproot from one of his senior students, and it was like being hit by an express train.

It's not all about power - a large focus is on yielding/speed. But power is certainly there.

Anyway, I would recommend people check out Cheng Hsin if you have an opportunity.

kironin 11-13-2009 08:32 AM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Haven't been on aikiweb much lately.

Interesting thread, going through my mind too is that while yes, we have a separate ranking for what you could call our IT, there are those among the high ranked who were trained by Tohei Sensei for many years that I have felt a whole another level from and I have been trained by that are at the top of my priority list to seek out because they also teach well. (some have now passed away, because that is an older generation mostly) I have a reasonable confidence in what I know because my teacher that I started back in the early 90's and his teacher were actively interested and actively cultivating in their own unique ways such internal skills. Unfortunately, not being on the east coast, I can't just hop in a car and visit some of the people mentioned. In person, I'd rather have the attitude that I don't assume I know anything until I experience it. If it connects with anything I may know that will manifest itself soon enough and those discoveries are fun to make. However :D , one of the plans in my business for the next year is soon to start traveling out of Texas, so I would love to know of people doing this that are open to visitors interested in comparing notes and who I could learn from.

Quote:

Mike Sigman wrote: (Post 243207)
Well, first of all let me go back to something that I don't think has really penetrated very clearly.... these skills aren't unique to Aikido nor were they unique to Daito Ryu, nor are concepts for different styles/factions unique, and so on. Notice that Tohei has a separate ranking for the ki/kokyu skills outside of his Aikido ranking. Note that O-Sensei's cryptic quotes are obliquely sometimes and specific many times in quoting standard Chinese directions/admonitions about these skills.

When people start talking about "ki" and they have Yin-Yang dichotomy and "A-Un" and Five Elements, etc., we're talking about the same basic skills with the same basic rules and principles. Some Koryu or Aikido faction that uses different techniques and applications, that's fine but the basic ki skills by necessity must be the same, depending upon how purely they're done.

FWIW

Mike Sigman


MM 11-13-2009 08:36 AM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Craig Hocker wrote: (Post 245472)
However :D , one of the plans in my business for the next year is soon to start traveling out of Texas, so I would love to know of people doing this that are open to visitors interested in comparing notes and who I could learn from.

I'm near the Pittsburgh area, so if you find yourself there, let me know.

kironin 11-13-2009 08:51 AM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Interesting Marc,

My Iaido teacher lives in north eastern Pennsylvannia, I have planned to spend time up in that region anyway to be able to do some intensive training with him, so would be interesting to drop in. Since my teacher's teacher trained under and received his first several dan rankings under Imaizumi Sensei and when I first started we were basically using Imaizumi's nomenclature on our technique lists, would be like coming home to visit.

Quote:

Marc Abrams wrote: (Post 243227)
Robert:

I am very fortunate that my teacher, Imaizumi Shizuo, has always encouraged me to go anywhere and train with anyone to learn what I can about budo. I typically return from these trainings with my eyes more "open" than before to see what my teacher is doing (that I was not ready to "see" yet). He then feeds my awareness and gives me more stuff to work on. I realized that the only way that I would really be able to pursue this path was to open my own school so that I could ramp up my own training.

I consider myself very fortunate to have experienced some of the names on that list. Mr. Harden has been remarkably gracious in following up my participation in his seminar with a weekend of training at my school. I plan on continuing my work with him. He has an awful lot of stuff to offer in a friendly, funny and brutally honest manner (my type of environment). Ushiro Kenji has been another person who has remarkably gracious towards me. My school is now the only place that you can train directly with him in the United States. He will be at my school next weekend (10/24& 10/25) and there are still some spaces left for people to attend. I now also travel to Japan several times a year to train directly with him. His students, like Dan's students, are wonderful people whom you cannot help but become friendly with. Training with them is like training at Shin-Budo Kai. It is a place of friendship and honest training. These remarkable teachers create training environments that are genuine and unique.

I would be nothing other than a greedy rectum if I were to hold onto what I am learning. I am fortunate to have a school full of open-minded martial artists who are interested in this "grand experiment" that is my teaching. I aspire to be like Imaizumi Shizuo, who always says that he is passing on what he has learned from his teachers. He does not claim "ownership" despite the fifty years of personal touch that he now gives back to his teaching. I always strive to do the same and pass on what others have been gracious enough to share with me. I hope that as I learn more, my teachings can be a better reflection of those wonderful people who so openly and graciously share what they know with me. Until then, my students humor me and suffer through the little that I know to date :) !

Marc Abrams


Marc Abrams 11-13-2009 10:35 AM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Craig Hocker wrote: (Post 245477)
Interesting Marc,

My Iaido teacher lives in north eastern Pennsylvannia, I have planned to spend time up in that region anyway to be able to do some intensive training with him, so would be interesting to drop in. Since my teacher's teacher trained under and received his first several dan rankings under Imaizumi Sensei and when I first started we were basically using Imaizumi's nomenclature on our technique lists, would be like coming home to visit.

Craig:

Would love for you to drop in for a visit! Anything that I can do to help facilitate you travel and lodging arrangements, please let me know.

Marc Abrams

Thomas Campbell 11-13-2009 12:03 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Marc Abrams wrote: (Post 245485)
Craig:

Would love for you to drop in for a visit! Anything that I can do to help facilitate you travel and lodging arrangements, please let me know.

Marc Abrams

Nice, Marc (and Mark).

The cool thing about this forum is this kind of cooperative education, when egos and personalities don't get in the way.

Marc Abrams 11-13-2009 12:34 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Thomas Campbell wrote: (Post 245492)
Nice, Marc (and Mark).

The cool thing about this forum is this kind of cooperative education, when egos and personalities don't get in the way.

Thomas:

I agree with Ellis Amdur's observations about Aikido attracting passive-aggressive people. I also find that some of the most sincere, honest, good-hearted martial artists are also in the "Aikido crowd." I truly enjoy meeting the people from this forum face-to-face. I do not think that I could have developed as far as I have in my philosophical, energy, and physical understandings within Aikido without the valuable comments from people on this forum. Like my teacher, my dojo is an open dojo. The sharing of ideas, experiences, techniques.... helps to keep our art alive and not suffocating from a self-imposed, political vacuum.

Marc Abrams

Kevin Leavitt 11-13-2009 12:42 PM

Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?
 
I agree Marc!

thisisnotreal 11-13-2009 12:50 PM

Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?
 
Me too! I have learned a lot from many different people on these pages. I am very grateful.

ashe 11-13-2009 07:12 PM

Re: Who's got IT and can and will teach it?
 
Quote:

Craig Hocker wrote: (Post 245472)
However :D , one of the plans in my business for the next year is soon to start traveling out of Texas, so I would love to know of people doing this that are open to visitors interested in comparing notes and who I could learn from.

if you make it to the 602 (Phoenix) feel free to drop me a line! :)

Alex Lee 12-07-2009 11:03 AM

Re: Who's got Internal Training and can and will teach it?
 
I'm willing to go over few exercises or workout if anyone is interested. There isn't many folks around my area that seems to be interested in IP so I would love to have another person to work with.

I have trained with Ark in Tokyo for about year and a half.
I'm mostly a hobbyist but I can demonstrate a bit of IP. I think Rob John could vouch for me.

I'm located in Bowie, MD area. Free free to ping me via email anytime.


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