Why don't we practice chokes?
I know some groups practice chokes sometimes. I've done a little bit within formal aikido practice. It seems like an effective way to end an encounter and does not have to do any permanent damage to the attacker, so I don't see why they don't pop up more often.
I'm curious why there are so few choke techniques in aikido. Is it for philosophical reasons, practical reasons, or just a historical oddity? Does anyone have any information or theories? |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
If you render someone unconscious due to lack of oxygen-carrying blood to the brain, you better be damn sure you can revive them if need be.
(in other words, I expect there's a sad story behind it, OR someone pointed out just how stupid it is to be playing around with chokes unless you really, really know what you're doing) |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Choking people who is armed/possibily armed is too risky.
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
It's undignified.
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
I would think, given aikido's roots, where you would pin an opponent and kill them, a choke would be looked at as taking too long?
Quote:
Linky: http://www.lvrj.com/news/proper-use-...-75766857.html |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Ummm..u can practice chokes without actually having to go all the way.
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
No girls fall for that one any more.
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
We practice a choking technique.
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
Katherine |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Maybe it's a conflict of philosophy? My understanding is that we aim to restrict movement or repel the opponent damaging them.
'You break it you bought it' kinda thing. :D |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Even rarer is the choke done through sutemi waza, as was the specialty of Minoru Mochizuki's yoseikan budo aikido. See here at 3:00, 3:15 and 3:21--all chokes done from sutemi waza.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZKrk...eature=related The choke is a powerful tool and it can be done altogether safely. All our chokes in yoseikan came from judo or from jujutsu and modified by judo's standards of safe practice. We never actually choked one another unconscious but stopped when the chokee tapped out. But choking was a fair option at any time in randori, for any attack that presented the opening. As you can see Washizu Sensei perform these techniques, they can be applied very fast and smoothly for devastating overall effect. Best. David Quote:
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
We practice chokes as kihon of irimi nage in suwari waza and hanmi handachi waza.
This same form is kihon of irimi nage and sokumen irimi nage (kokyu ho /sokumen irimi nage) in tanto dori, jo dori and jo nage, tachi dori. We practice ushiro katate dori kubi shime as a attack on a regular base. |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
We have not done this technique where nage gets to choke uke, but it looks interesting: http://www.ehow.com/video_4940218_mu...kubishime.html |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
I think Yoseikan does some of the "pass the weapon, step behind them" type things that are amicable to hadaka jime. (Ditto some FMA schools). And hey, it's never a bad idea to have a human shield, right? :D |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
Bob, Too risky is not the same than impossible. Anyway I would not recommend Feldenkrais approach if it resembles what can be seen in this clip unless there are not other options available. I'll try to get the book so I can get a more complete picture about his views on choking armed people in a combative environment. |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Well, I don't want to get into a too long discussion on Feldenkrais, his work etc. I agree the cited clip is a little unrealistic. (I'm not sure how representative that clip is of Moshe's actual approach, though). However, it bears pointing out that Feldenkrais tested this kind of thing with live weapons, against resisting opponents, so there may be something of value to be mined from that book.
For a more modern take on chokes, grappling against weapons etc, I'd look to ISR Matrix. Unsurprisingly, you can kind of trace ISR back to judo (by way of BJJ / SBGi) too. I think Floro Fighting Systems *might* have some focus on limb tying / passing akin to a two-on-one, armdrag, step around to the back. You could argue that hakada jime is one possible finish from there (assuming you use the takedown hadaka per Feldenkrais cover). Personally, I think the issue with choking some is that it's too slow. 5-10 seconds can be an eternity. But, as I said, opinions vary, and surely it's better to be behind the guy with the knife then in front of him. |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
I think it is important to learn chokes/strangles, but I agree with what Demetrio said.
Quote:
Quote:
A lot can happen in 3 to 15 seconds, especially with a determined adversary holding a sharp object. This is probably why the most prevalent choke in aikido (ushiro kubi shime) includes a wrist hold. |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Did we lose the rest of the discussion about shimewaza? I hope not, there were several posts that I had wanted to look at again and then the server went down.
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Searching google for police choke deaths gets too many hits.
http://judoinfo.com/chokes5.htm There were 16 choke hold deaths by the Los Angeles Police alone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold What kind of trade offs do we want to make? Effective technique versus possible harm and death? |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
I would say good practice in Aikido would be to try such positions as would be chokes and find what is more appropriate, less damaging and yet more effective. The way of Aikido no? Regards.G. |
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 AM. |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.