How to deal with irritating partner?
At my dojo, there's this girl I know who is a 1st kyu and a pain to train with.
Every time we train together she opens a full verbal assault on me on how I need to spread my stance wider, how I need to twist my stance this way and that way, how this would work and that would not work. Practically I never get to do a technique with her because she would stop me at any "error" she detects, and make me restart from the beginning. I appreciate her trying to help me learn, but frankly she is not the best person in the class in a position to give instructions, especially when they are not solicited. And how do I improve without doing the techniques (and failing), all the same time getting my ears tortured? Generally I have just been avoiding training with her but recently it has gotten really awkward since she can tell that. We hang out as a group off the tatami too, and this creates unnecessary tension. How do I deal with this kind of situation? |
Re: How to deal with irritating partner?
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Good luck! |
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Be polite , but be direct .Tell her that you do not welcome her criticism however well meant. Tell her if you want to have feedback , you will ask her for the feedback.Your partner may not be fully aware of her nuisance value.If all else fails be blunt.Cheers, Joe |
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When someone is too chatty I say. "Let's just train, if I need correction the teacher will see it and correct me."
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Start questioning everything she does.
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Is she usually correct?
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Pauliina |
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Thanks everyone. I think I'm really going for the route people suggested: "your criticism is appreciated but not asked for. If I need something I'll ask Sensei" This really does 2 things: I speak my mind while being polite, and remind her of her place while not directly burning her ego.
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Usually I try to stay as far away from her as possible. But one day she was sitting next to me and was about to salute, I had to shut off my peripheral vision and go directly in the opposite direction to look for another partner. This is horrible etiquette but I had no choice. So I wanna put an end to this. I'm a 3rd kyu and in our dojo, men wear a hakama at 2nd kyu and women at 3rd kyu. So evidently I'm really hesistant to "talk back" in respect to the "fancy dress". Frankly I think Aikido is a lifelong lesson and everyone makes mistake from 7th kyu to 4th dan. Our goals should be to help each other train, make mistake and improve together, not to harass. Now I just wonder, have you encountered something like this personally? :) |
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How about "But sensei JUST FINISHED telling me to do ABC and I think you're telling me to do XYZ - I don't understand… I'm trying to do what sensei just showed me - is that not what I'm doing?" or something along those lines…
I've never met an athlete/aikido person who wanted to do badly… |
Re: How to deal with irritating partner?
In fairness, it's a difficult balance. I generally don't offer much verbal feedback unless my partner is either very junior and in difficulties or clearly indicates that feedback would be welcome. But I recently got a "shut up and let me train" message from a partner... so maybe I'm not as careful about it as I thought. :rolleyes: The world will not end if you give her the same message.
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uhhhhhh, are we back to the Sengoku Jidai period, guys?
I was pretty sure Phi Truong and Bill were half joking with their comments and I actually kinda laughed a bit. If they actually meant what they said, I'll just pretend I heard a good joke. And this has nothing to do with her being a girl or a guy. Hell, in my dojo the Sensei is a woman. She is nicer than your typical sweet grandma but oh my god try not to faint when she throws you... Over half of the yudanshans are women. Among the youth, the only shodan is a girl together with this girl 1st kyu. The highest ranking young guy is my buddy who is 2nd kyu. So I won't enter in the debate on anything regarding sex/gender in Aikido. I had a similar problem with another dude. He is a newbie but he comes in the dojo pretending it is his home. He doesn't bow to the sempai and gives me shoulder slaps to the shoulder when I don't even know his name. I make a point of not talking or training with him and I have no problem with that. The only reason I wanna fix thing with this girl is, like I said, we're friends out of the dojo. Due to her family issues she draws the only validation in her life from the dojo and Aikido training, so I'm reluctant to say anything negative about her training. I've learned that some harmless words even though spoken respectfully can still rain hell fire on people's ego. @ Carsten: Sorry, I've just not reached that level of budoshin yet to have enough patient :D Not while my hearing sense is being overloaded while a 1st kyu is crushing my wrist. (girl is always too damn stressful) |
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ahem, ahem, ... me either ... ahem ... :rolleyes: |
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In addition, there is an assumption here about the value of verbally correcting mistakes. The assumption is that if someone sees another person practising the waza incorrectly, there is an obligation to point this out -- immediately and on the spot. This is clearly the case with the person with whom you are having trouble, but is it the case generally in the dojo? In Japan, such immediate verbal correction is less likely and it is quite possible for someone to be practicing the waza wrongly, but without any correction. As the chief instructor in my dojo, I often see people practising waza incorrectly, but it is quite another matter whether I should tell them so, or leave them to make corrections in their own time and in their own way. I give seminars occasionally and am constantly surprised at the number of people, including 4th dan and above, who do not practice the waza in the way I have shown. Do they do this because they cannot perceive what I am doing, since their mental map of the waza does not allow for another way of doing it, or because they have already made a mental judgment that their way is better? Since your aikido practice will be a lifelong activity, I am sure you will be faced with issues like this when you come to instruct classes. Best wishes, |
Re: How to deal with irritating partner?
Dear original poster,
in my dojo and also when going to seminars and visiting other dojos, I observe pretty much the same, and it occurs again and again. Although I'm normally not at all a patient person and if the same happened in my area of work, would explose or say something with a cutting edge, in aikido I work on keeping calm and learn something from what happens. Why that? In my line of work, I'm an expert, I do it since 20 something years and generally don't make 25 blunders in 90 minutes. In aikido, though training since 7 years, I'm far from being an expert, and it may occur that I do every single action wrong in 90 minutes. There are guys of different levels who have it as a principle to block my technique and provide not-asked-for advice. It's mostly, but not exclusively, guys, and of all levels. Motives are different. They vary from ignorance that what works for a guy of 80 kg doesn't always work for a woman of 60, to pissing contest or the observation that I'm just getting the technique unwittingly completely wrong. So what? If they manage to block my technique, what does it mean? => my capacity is not good enough to do the technique intended by the teacher => I try to find out why or => I apply henka waza If it still doesn't work, obviously the other person is not collaborating, but if my aikido was good, that wouldn't be a problem. So if I get angry, and I do, it's not at the would-be sensei but' more at the fact that after 7 years, my technique still sucks. As to the advice, there are different options: => I try what the guy said, and it works => he was right => I try what the guy said and it doesn't work => a) he was wrong b) I didn't get it => he can launch another round of advice => go to 1 It may also happen that I differ and remain convinced that what the guy said is wrong or that he didn't get what the teacher said. Then we can try to find out what's the matter and why. Or we can simply shut up and train. In a nutshell, I don't see this sort of situation as annoying, I rather see it as a useful part of the training. All the best, Eva |
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And plus, just like you said, Aikido is about body synchronization. What works for this girl might not works for me. There's no reason to train with some1 who doesn't help you learn in a productive way. Except for the personal reason I mentioned. Quote:
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And grow a handlebar moustache :D |
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Long Trinh, you asked about others experiences, here's mine:
I often ask people simply to please not block my technique. In my experience, most people who do aikido are basically nice ordinary people, not strange psychopaths or something. :D So most of the time when someone blocks my technique or gives advice, they are trying to help, just maybe not in the best way. And if I approach the situation from that perspective, I can then say "I appreciate that you're trying to help, but could you just go with it for now, I'd like to try and figure this out by myself?", and usually people are then happy to comply. At other times, I might choose not to say anything. When a training partner first blocks your technique, then gives advice, then falls for you when you follow the advice - what they are doing in fact is teach you how they like to be thrown. That might not teach you universal truths about aikido but it can teach you something interesting. Now sometimes people who block you are trying to play a weird manipulative power game. Then they can enjoy "winning" when your technique doesn't work and they get to explain things to you. I try not play that game with them, of course I could also start to block their technique (aikido techniques are usually easy to stop in practice since you know what is coming), but that just means there are then two jerks playing a passive agressive game, and I try not to be a jerk.* So i just practice as well as i can, and then avoid such a person in the future. But I think the people who do this consciously are in a minority, most people really are nice and if you ask them will stop blocking. So my basic rule is, talk with people. Only if that really doesn't help, maybe consider not training with that person, at least not very often. * Except when I fail and get annoyed and start to play that game. I'm not perfect either. :o Hope that helps. :) Pauliina |
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Nice job avoiding her.
Next time you are cornered you might try - "Let's check with Sensei", raise your hand and get an opinion from the teacher. |
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We cannot control other people. We can only control ourselves. Human relations are the most important, and the most difficult, part of aikido. Some people are easy to train with. Probably, really, they don't need aikido. But most of us do. We need to work with other people so we can figure out how to be decent human beings. Blaming uke is always easier than taking a clear-eyed look at our own shortcomings. Work with the people you find most difficult until you get your "stuff" worked out. It's hard, I know.
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I've done what I can to clean up this thread to keep things on-topic.
Thanks, everyone, for your continued attention in keeping things civil here on AikiWeb. -- Jun |
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Surely if someone is doing a waza incorrectly the person will be embodying the wrong method of doing the waza? This in time would become habit forming and in my mind in a negative way.The guy having conditioned himself to doing incorrect waza then has to re programme himself over again. Not only that surely you as the visiting instructor at a seminar have a duty to see /check that the students are doing what you show them rather than what they believe your demonstrating?What would be the point of inviting you to teach them if they carry on doing what they normally do?Seems a waste of valuable time money and human resources ie you.Hope you are well> Cheers, Joe. |
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Recently I was asking myself similar questions... Could you explain please why don't you make corrections right away to avoid creation wrong automatism and also to avoid creation wrong waza example to other dojo members? Quote:
Also, if an instructor is from different style, often, most what he is doing has not much sens to me, because I don't understand the assumptions of his teaching system. This is very frustrating and not helping to easy absorb his teaching. On the other hand he has no time to explain it. So I'm not sure is it a good idea to follow such seminars...however it has as a consequence to close myself in my own style only...not good.... |
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