AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   General (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Black Belt???? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9796)

mattnowak 02-09-2006 12:23 PM

Black Belt????
 
How long does it ususally take to to get a black belt?

justin 02-09-2006 12:26 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
one of those how long is a piece of string, so many variables impossible to answer,

how often do you train, how good are you, how good is your instructor, how good are your fellow students who's help you will need, and hundreds more that dont spring to mind right now.

why do you ask if you dont mind me asking

Dajo251 02-09-2006 01:02 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
It takes as long as it takes for you to be ready for it.....

Qatana 02-09-2006 01:12 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
how much time do you have?

ccain85 02-09-2006 01:16 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
like everyone else has already said, it is up to you, your instructor, and how much time you are capable of putting into your training. please remember though, receiving your black belt should not be your goal. just enjoy your training and all will come in due time. shodan, first degree, is nothing more than a good understanding of the basics. i have had people tell me, once you reach shodan, then it is time to start your training. :ai: :ki: :do:

Aiki LV 02-09-2006 01:18 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
There is not one definitive answer. Among the factors involved are the association, frequency of training, understanding of the art, etc. Ask a dan rank in your dojo how long it took them. That might give you an idea of how long it takes in your dojo.

Simbo 02-09-2006 01:25 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
I personally like "it depends on how much you pay for shipping" or the story about the student that askes that and the teacher says "the average is 5-7 years." To which the student replies, "What if I practice all day, every day?" and the teacher says "then 10 years." But of course I'm a sarcastic smartass.

akiy 02-09-2006 01:49 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=61

-- Jun

crbateman 02-10-2006 06:48 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
How long does it take you to learn?
How long does it take you to grow 6 feet tall?

The answer is different for everyone.

And you don't "get" a black belt. You EARN one, then you BECOME one, then you ACT LIKE one.

Edwin Neal 02-10-2006 06:52 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
what i have to be 6 feet tall? man this is gonna suck... i stopped growing a long time ago and i don't have any of that miracle grow stuff...

Larry Feldman 02-10-2006 06:52 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
The 3 big factors are how quickly you learn (tough to change), how difficult or robust the test is (you have no input) and how often you practice - the one thing you can effect.

ian 02-10-2006 07:23 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
I have an amusing scheme for students at my club: Since 'wearing a hakama' is seen as prestigious, I don't let anyone wear a hakama until they no longer ask 'when can I wear a hakama'.

Similarly, many people ask 'when can I wear a black belt' - I rarely hear 'how long will it take to get to 2nd kyu, or nidan'. The status associated with a blackbelt is such that I think someone who obtains one should realise the effort (not time) required, and by that stage the prestige of the black-belt pales into nothingness compared with the actual learning experience required to get that belt.

Thus, to answer your question; the time it takes you to get a black belt is the time it takes you detatch any importance to it as a belt.

(sorry if this sounds condescending - not my intention)

mickeygelum 02-10-2006 08:24 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
..Here to Walmart....................10 minutes..
..Out of Vehicle and into store...2 minutes..
..Belt rack to register................1 minute..
..Showing up at class with a gold belt buckle on your Obi.....PRICELESS

...It takes as long as it takes...be patient and train diligently...it will come quicker than you thought.... ;)

djalley 02-10-2006 10:43 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Clark Bateman wrote:
And you don't "get" a black belt. You EARN one, then you BECOME one, then you ACT LIKE one.

In my opinion, I think you have the order exactly backwards.

Edwin Neal 02-10-2006 11:18 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
yeah if you act like a black belt then you probably ain't... because i don't associate any special way of acting to a black belt... you're still the same person...

justinmaceachern 02-10-2006 11:22 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
I can give you a clear answer, it will take from now until then.

Jorx 02-10-2006 11:57 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Usually it takes as long as it takes to get to the nearest martial arts store.

ESimmons 02-10-2006 12:44 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
I don't understand why martial artists feel the need to get defensive and/or smart when asked how long it takes to get a black belt.

When someone wants to know how long it takes to get a bachelor's degree, we tell them generally 4 years, although it can vary, depending on the degree, how heavy your class load is, whether or not you pass all your classes, what school you attend, and what your degree is in.

We don't smartly tell them that their goal should not be the degree itself but rather to learn their field, or that they can purchase a fake degree on ebay, or even tell them that a degree is just a piece of paper and in itself means nothing. But when asked about a black belt, we automatically assume the inquirer is an imbecile for even asking such a question and proceed to talk down to him.

You can see from the poll posted on the subject, the general consensus seems to be anywhere from 3-6 years, so I suppose a good answer would be about four-and-a-half years, and of course it varies from place to place.

Karen Wolek 02-10-2006 01:30 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Mathew Nowak wrote:
How long does it ususally take to to get a black belt?

Looks like you go to an AAA dojo. Here are the test requirements for the kyu ranks.

http://www.hal-pc.org/~boha/aaakyu.htm

and the dan tests:

http://www.hal-pc.org/~boha/aaadan.htm

Maybe these will help!

I'm USAF-ER and the average time to blackbelt is about 7 years, I think.

MaryKaye 02-10-2006 02:06 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Although my dojo's web site says "five years with consistent practice" my experience is that my teachers are unwilling to test anyone more than once per year, which makes six years a minimum. The four people I know who have or are about to make shodan took between 7 and 11 years each, but there were some injuries involved in the longer times. (My dojo tends to have older students and this may influence length of time to the black belt. Older students tend to bounce back more slowly from injury, as well as having more outside commitments.)

I am told that even though the formal test criteria are the same, the time to black belt for our organization in Japan is dramatically lower--a university student who begins as a freshman can expect to have a black belt by the time they graduate. I have no first-hand experience of this, however.

Mary Kaye
(who would like to have a black belt after six years, but isn't counting on it)

Josh Reyer 02-10-2006 02:57 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Mary Kuhner wrote:
I am told that even though the formal test criteria are the same, the time to black belt for our organization in Japan is dramatically lower--a university student who begins as a freshman can expect to have a black belt by the time they graduate. I have no first-hand experience of this, however.

As I mentioned in the "Dan" thread, while the shodan requirements in various Aikikai schools seem more or less equally comprehensive, there's a lot of variety in the kyuu requirements, allowing those in Japan to fly through the kyuu ranks faster than their counterparts in the U.S.

Another factor is testing schedules. When I went to Twin Cities Aikido Center, a USAF dojo, there were of course attendance requirements, but in addition to that seminars with Akira Tohei-shihan were only once a year. If you didn't have the attendance requirements, or if you didn't quite feel ready, you either had to weight another year, or go to a seminar in another Midwestern city.

In contrast, Aikikai Hombu Dojo in Japan holds tests every other month. My current dojo holds tests every four months, and my instructor holds the right to conduct tests up to sandan, which makes things a lot more convenient.

ikkitosennomusha 02-10-2006 03:21 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Daniel Hulley wrote:
It takes as long as it takes for you to be ready for it.....

This is the best answer but if you want a more helpful reply, it honestly depends on how much time you put into it. In general, training 2-3 times a week should take 4-5 years on average. This is from my experience only as this could vary from dojo to organization.

Roban 02-10-2006 08:11 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
When I first started Aikido, I thought the very same thing - how long to my black belt? Now I'm getting into it, I don't really care about all that stuff way into the future, I'm enjoying my Aikido and I just look forward to one grading at a time, just as a check that I'm doing OK.

It's not about belts (although it's nice to have a "badge" of your achievements) I feel it's more about having the mindset and the patience to get into a new way of life.

So far, for me, Aikido IS a life changing experience and I'm just letting it all wash over me :) If I find myself with a black belt, I'll thank the people who helped me get there and then just continue on learning:)

Don't rush - savour and enjoy!

Rob

Mark Freeman 02-11-2006 05:54 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
When I first started I drew up a chart with target dates for all my belts up to and beyond Shodan. I managed to 'hit' my target right up to 1st Kyu. Then I woke up to myself :eek:
I finally realised that practicing aikido was like 'practicing aikido', if you focus on the the end goal happening too quickly ( wanting to throw? ) then there is tension and effort involved. If you want the technique to happen effortlessly then you need to focus on the moment by moment movement. So I threw away the targets, and just started to enjoy every practice for what it was 'practice'. Eventually the day came to test for Shodan :)
Then the real practice started! :D

regards,
Mark

Sonja2012 02-11-2006 10:17 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

And you don't "get" a black belt. You EARN one, then you BECOME one, then you ACT LIKE one.
How would you expect a black belt to act? Should there really be a difference between a shodan and a mudansha in behaviour And if so, what should be different? Or shouldn´t everybody (at least try and) act like a black belt?

Aristeia 02-11-2006 02:13 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Sonja McGough wrote:
Or shouldn´t everybody (at least try and) act like a black belt?

Or indeed shouldn't black belts act like everyone else?

ikkitosennomusha 02-11-2006 04:50 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Sonja McGough wrote:
How would you expect a black belt to act? Should there really be a difference between a shodan and a mudansha in behaviour And if so, what should be different? Or shouldn´t everybody (at least try and) act like a black belt?


Good point! Black belts (yudansha) should act even more humble than mudansha to set an example. Remember, "a beginner's mind". Yudansha knows better.

crbateman 02-11-2006 07:22 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
As a mudansha, it is desirable to act like a black belt, but as yudansha, it is expected. That is the difference. People aren't born knowing how to act. There is a time where you learn. Mudansha is that time. That way, when you DO strap it on, you already know, and can be immediately expected to act so. There is added responsibility at that level, both real and perceived. And it is where the learning really begins at yet another level. It's not starting over, but it's close.

jester 02-11-2006 08:12 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Like Eric said, it's a lot like a Bachelor Degree. It takes people a different amount of time to get the same degree depending on your hours and other variables.

Like a Bachelors Degree, even when you get it you might not be able to do anything with it!

James Kelly 02-11-2006 09:28 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Ian Dodkins wrote:
Thus, to answer your question; the time it takes you to get a black belt is the time it takes you detatch any importance to it as a belt.

Hi Ian,

Don't mean to be contentious here, but do you really think that the students you've graduated to shodan have detached all importance to it? I find that hard to believe. Perhaps they don't show any external attachment or they show less than they used to, but I suspect that they have strong emotional attachments to the outcome of the test (or to the fact that they've been selected to test if the outcome is a forgone conclusion).

I'm asking this not to be annoying, but to try to find what it is in fact that says to you (and others) that so and so is ready for his/her shodan. You can usually tell. You train with someone and say to yourself, ‘he's ready.' And there's usually an accompanying shift in attitude, but what exactly is that shift? Is it just confidence? The understanding that they've improved and belt or no belt, they know how good they are? That's when it's time to give them the belt? I don't have an answer, just trying to figure it out.

If relinquishing all attachment to the belt were a requirement, I'd still be an ikyu (and probably would be for life).

Mark Uttech 02-12-2006 04:56 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
A 'black belt' is always the place where you meet your ego for the first time full blown. And, as the degrees grow, so do the full blown encounters. In gassho

tarik 02-13-2006 12:45 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Mathew Nowak wrote:
How long does it ususally take to to get a black belt?

How long does it usually take to learn how to train?

Aristeia 02-13-2006 05:14 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Mark Uttech wrote:
A 'black belt' is always the place where you meet your ego for the first time full blown. And, as the degrees grow, so do the full blown encounters. In gassho

I don't know what that means.

Mark Freeman 02-13-2006 05:37 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Michael Fooks wrote:
I don't know what that means.

Old Zen saying - If you ask the question, you are not ready to receive the answer!

Hopefully Mark will expand, but my guess is that when you reach the level of 1st Dan you will inevitably come up against your own ego, probably in quite a profound way, issues of identity, responsibility, worthiness to name but a few. As you progress up the Dan ladder, these issues do not go away, in fact they are often in sharper focus, the lessons about your self/ego become ever more important. There is no place to hide.
This may be why some people give up aikido around black belt, it's a way of avoiding the inevitable having to face themselves.

Anyway that's my reading of it, how did I do Mark?

regards,

Mark

Mark Uttech 02-13-2006 06:18 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Not a bad description. Continuous training tries us, in many ways. It is the ego that wants to understand, after all. And for some, it is "Juken Jigoku" -a trip through hell.

Edwin Neal 02-13-2006 06:29 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
i thought it meant the dyes from the belt and the constriction caused the person to act like an asshole... ;-))

Aristeia 02-13-2006 09:17 PM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Mark Freeman wrote:
Old Zen saying - If you ask the question, you are not ready to receive the answer!

Old Kiwi saying - if no one knows what the hell you're talking about perhaps you're not being clear!

Amelia Smith 02-14-2006 05:32 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask how long it will take to get a black belt. Sho dan is not satori. You get there -- and what "there" is varries by teacher and association -- by working towards it, showing up, etc. I personally looked at the USAF guidelines a lot on my way to sho dan, and maybe I'm just a shallow person, but knowing that I had, say, 300 practice days to be minimally eligible for my next test helped get me out there on the mat, gave me a feeling of progress through those inevitable plateaus in learning. Sure, some things (like athletic talent, or a personal relationship with the sensei) can speed the process, and some things (injury, other commitments, having two left feet and a distractable brain, changing dojos, etc.) can slow the process.

So go ahead, set goals. Practice for practice's sake is all well and good, but why knock ambition? I think it's good to want to learn/develop/grow, and OK to want to have that learning acknowledged.

Geez.

Matt Molloy 02-14-2006 08:03 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Sonja McGough wrote:
How would you expect a black belt to act? Should there really be a difference between a shodan and a mudansha in behaviour And if so, what should be different? Or shouldn´t everybody (at least try and) act like a black belt?

Ahem. I believe that how a black belt was supposed to act was covered in the Contagious Diseases in Aikido thread over in the Humor section.

Quote:

John Matsushima wrote:
1. SHODANITIS....

DESCRIPTION: neurotic syndrome that occurs when a person gets a black belt and the next day he is teaching everyone how to "really" do the techniques correctly.

SYMPTOMS: Excessive air coming from the main facial orfice. Frequent interruptions of practice to "help" you.

TREATMENT: A good kick in the croch area

Doesn't seem like a good way to act at all. :p :D

Cheers,

Matt.

aikigirl10 02-14-2006 08:10 AM

Re: Black Belt????
 
Quote:

Eric Simmons wrote:
I don't understand why martial artists feel the need to get defensive and/or smart when asked how long it takes to get a black belt.

When someone wants to know how long it takes to get a bachelor's degree, we tell them generally 4 years, although it can vary, depending on the degree, how heavy your class load is, whether or not you pass all your classes, what school you attend, and what your degree is in.

We don't smartly tell them that their goal should not be the degree itself but rather to learn their field, or that they can purchase a fake degree on ebay, or even tell them that a degree is just a piece of paper and in itself means nothing. But when asked about a black belt, we automatically assume the inquirer is an imbecile for even asking such a question and proceed to talk down to him.

You can see from the poll posted on the subject, the general consensus seems to be anywhere from 3-6 years, so I suppose a good answer would be about four-and-a-half years, and of course it varies from place to place.


lol I completely agree.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:48 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.