Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Hello,
As far as the research(Of Oak Leaves, Blind Hogs, and an Acorn)goes, the decription of koshi garuma given is not the same across the Daito-ryu board. In the Takumakai, there is extension of uke to draw them over the hips, and there is no raising or lowering of the hip in the throw. It's done more like the decription of Ueshiba's koshinage...So where does this come from originally? Stolen, made up? I don't know. But it is intresting. :0) Thanks, ChrisW |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
We call it aikiage in the Takumakai. Other schools call it agete. I'm sure there are others as well. Take Care, ChrisW |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Thanks Chris.
|
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
These are not usually talked about, but I am highlighting them here to illustrate Saito's rather surprising ignorance of the art. It's surprising because Deshi as diverse as Shirata Sensei, Sunadomari Sensei and Arikawa Sensei demonstrate a compendium of techniques derived from the Daito Ryu corpus (While still remaining faithful to Ueshiba Sensei's Aikido). |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
|
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Best, Chris |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
It seems to me that he was wrong in every example of the modifications that he cited. Best, Chris |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
From my book written by OSensei's son, aikido is derived from three other arts. Daito-ryu being one of them and the main influence. Kito-ryu is also a contributor. Kito-ryu means up & down as said by the author. I forget what the third art is.
As far as the paring down of Daito-ryu. From what I can tell and derived from my own research. Aikido contains many of the Daito-ryu techniques, but we don't the very specific name for each one. OSensei tended to put many of the things into a "class" rather than have a specific name. So while Daito-ryu could have five distinct techniques due to small variations, aikido would just label them all as just iriminage for example. |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Oh, and what Chris said. |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
|
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Best, Chris |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Best, Chris |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
A man's gotta eat...Why not fish!!! Sorry guy and gals, I'm out. ;0) Take Care All, ChrisW |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
|
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
So, if we drop that section, think it'll help get the conversation moving forward? :) |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
That doesn't mean that what he's saying is correct - and it opens up some other conversations about whether or not the Founder was always representing things truthfully. Best, Chris |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Well its a valid conversation but I cant help thinking that the Founders point of view is objectively unique and different from ours in that that it is "from the inside" with intimate knowledge of the continuum [Daito-ryu...Aikido] and [1915..1969]
|
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Best, Chris |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Makes sense but you need to be reasonable to what extent you apply the "bending the facts" approach.
For the statement "hanmi is not taught in Daito-ryu" (assuming it a quote from the Founder) we have Shirata Rinjiro saying Quote:
It is possible off course that Shirata is "bending the facts" but do you have a good reason to think that? |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
That would be Shirata per Stevens then. There is no reference that is a direct quote.
|
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Ernesto, on the book cover we have
Quote:
Are you correcting the quote or are you implying that in the quoted passage Stevens misrepresents Shirata? |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
The most telling reason to believe that the hanmi statement is not accurate is that hanmi exists in Daito-ryu, although it's not usually used as a starting position (not never, just not usually) - some basic examples appear here: http://youtu.be/M23L0D9XrB0 Really, hanmi is not a mysterious innovation of Morihei Ueshiba, you see it in most Japanese arts. Further, hanmi is, to my mind, peripheral to the main question here - whether or not awase is really the same as aiki. Best, Chris |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Greg |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Anyway, I second what Chris said, it has little to do with the main question. |
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI
Quote:
Speaking of Stevens and supposed quotes from Osensei.... Remember; Ueshiba never said stand in hanmi in the supposed quote Stevens offered. He actually said stand with six direction awareness ; before, during and after each technique." This has a veeery different and deeper meaning to someone educated in the higher level arts like Ueshiba was. It is an exact term used. Sadly, most translators were not so well educated in the deeper teachings, well known terminology of them and the concepts they described and thier meaning...no matter how long they trained. I value and appreciate people having twenty years of experience-but as I am being told by hundreds of teachers with up to 45 years in-they are now realizing much of what they were taught was...well...missing critical, known and path changing information Chris Li is correcting many of the earlier mistakes. Dan |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:48 AM. |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.