Another controversial question....
That's mainly directed towards the sensei and seniors on the forum.
Do you honestly feel that the very best students at your respective dojos leave? Do those students that show the greatest "physical" abilities in the art, an almost innate sense of timing and technique leave far earlier than the merely adequate students. Feel free to give examples if you wish. Also note that this question merely pertains to physical abilities and has no spiritual side.:straightf |
Re: Another controversial question....
I personally have not noted a correlation between attrition and natural talent level, except that there is probably a higher dropout rate among those who totally do not "get it". I can't say as I blame them. Among the talented, there does seem to be an increased desire to broaden the horizons, which I think is a healthy thing, even though it means that desire to experience the training in other places, and from other teachers, might become a natural outgrowth of that desire.
As an instructor, all one can do is try to pass on the teaching in the best way one can. It is pointless not to expect students to go their own paths when they feel it's right. The best tribute an instructor can hope to get is that his students go on to exceed him, as much is owed to his training in encouraging them and making a pathway for that success. |
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I hope I am not being too glib by saying this but some "black belts" are too quick to respect the power of the dollar over the heritage of the Art they practice. William Hazen |
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William Hazen |
When they hit the wall
In my experience, many particularly talented students drop out when they find that in spite of their talent, they need to do a lot of keiko in order to develop further.
Although they fly forward the first few years, as if they had it all inside of them to begin with, one day they hit the wall that talent is not enough to break through. We all do. The most talented ones are completely unprepared for it, and might leave in pure disappointment. But those who had to struggle from day one, they just frown and go on. Indeed, there are drawbacks to talent, as well. |
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Thanks for the responses.
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I don't mean to extend the thread but I must say that my experience is markedly different. The senior students who have left our dojo, with a single exception, have moved on because of graduating school, children, relocating. I can less authoritatively say the same for Aikido School of Central Ohio where I have visited twice per year for nearly a decade and am welcomed by the same faces. Whenever I encounter a warm and competent sensei then I find students who visit other locations and even cross train but they wouldn't dream of leaving their home.
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This is a funny question. The good students - by definition - should never leave!! We're talking about a path more than anything else. Anyone who has an understanding of it should know that it will take a lifetime of training to reach anything at all.
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I think I am qualified too, probably reached this level about the 3rd or 4th year (can't say to what extend). I have been training karate for about 21 years when I began aikido. A late starter at aikido at 36 years young, I approached the art with a mindset of adapting to a different set of rules of engagements -- what would do if I was forbidden to use my strikes and kicks. During these past 15 years, I have moved dojos X times and have trained with X different instructors. There was a break in training due to career and relocation move and at times even contemplations to drop out of aikido completely (due mainly to the spiritual factor -- can't reconcile the dojo spirit to the dojo kun, presently still can't). My definition of a teacher covers both having physical abilities and spiritual leadership. Being an objective person, I set training goals for myself. During this period I have also lost two teachers on my aikido path -- one returned to his country of residence and other was called to the Lord. Besides losing these teachers, the primary reason for my moving dojo is: The instructor does not have the means to help me achieve my goals and on the worst side, I find that his instructions (physical) and interpretations (spiritual) of the art set me back further up the path. There is a martial saying, "its better not to train if you have not found a teacher". Quote:
We have always been told that aikido means different things to different people. Various people have various reasons/objectives to step on the mats. Critically, the aikido instructor himself must have an ethical reason to be there. If he himself is clueless and goalless but set strongly in his own belief and ego, then how would you expect him to lead and control his class? IMO, his techniques (or rather his instructions) and his understanding of the concepts and principles of aikido must be consistent. Quote:
At one the dojo, an instructor would show long and fancy techniques; techniques that appeared more likely to have come out from the YouTube's Judo or Shorinji Kempo video clips, techniques that only he could perform but of high injury risk to the uke. These instructions (performances ratherr) do not help me to improve my aikido in any way. The nature of his instructions is that he keeps showing variants of the technique (sort of like he made them up as he moved along -- formless aikido, so he said) and most students hardly have a clue and emulate him in the crudest manner heightening the risk factor…and they continue to emulate him and perform his brand of aikido at every opportunity… There is another saying, "One judges the quality of the teacher by the quality of his students". Some view it as good aikido and some as bad. Different sticks for different strokes (sic). Quote:
For your controversial thread, it's my controversial 2sen experience. Regards David Y |
Re: Another controversial question....
Thanks for being honest David.:)
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Steven Seagal's Son is now opening an Aikido Dojo out here in LA. Looking at his webpage might give you the gist of what I am talking about. Quote:
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Thanks for sharing. :) William Hazen |
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In theory, a "great" student of martial arts is a student who studies broadly outside of just Aikido, so saying that great students are those who stick in Aikido is a bit of an oxymoron.
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The primary reason behind the question is that I've heard several senseis discuss various students and how some with "the way," at least from a physical sense, left their dojos long before they reached any level other than 5th kyu. It may be because they simply became bored. It maybe this was all they needed from aikido. One of those students I have discovered may have in fact been a famous student of ballet, just before he left Toronto for New York. I just often wonder how many truly gifted wanderers there are.:straightf
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Thanks to the Aikido Journal for the original heads up. William Hazen |
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William Hazen |
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Although in a different sense I'd agree with you. I don't think any great student rests on any one thing, be it a style of martial art or any other school of thought or discipline. In my mind, the essence of being a "great" student, whatever that is, has to do with absorbing and internalizing everything possible. This means there will always be some degree of hopping around in order to cross reference what they've learned so far. |
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