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-   -   USAF Nidan: Tachi Tori? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25871)

nicholsonadam 07-23-2021 01:12 PM

USAF Nidan: Tachi Tori?
 
The USAF requirements for nidan examination specify two uke for tachi tori, up from one for shodan. What USAF dan examination videos I can find online tend to show multiple uke for buki tori waiting for the examinee to clear and reset before taking their turn to attack, unlike randori, where a greater number of uke means (to various degrees in various examination venues) more to deal with at once.

Was this once an examination element where uke attacked in a coordinated or simultaneous manner, that has since come to be more relaxed? Are there USAF examinations where the uke do attack at once? Or is there another rationale I'm missing for the second tachi tori uke?

Bernd Lehnen 07-24-2021 04:52 AM

Re: USAF Nidan: Tachi Tori?
 
Quote:

Adam Nicholson wrote: (Post 355400)
The USAF requirements for nidan examination specify two uke for tachi tori, up from one for shodan. What USAF dan examination videos I can find online tend to show multiple uke for buki tori waiting for the examinee to clear and reset before taking their turn to attack, unlike randori, where a greater number of uke means (to various degrees in various examination venues) more to deal with at once.

Was this once an examination element where uke attacked in a coordinated or simultaneous manner, that has since come to be more relaxed? Are there USAF examinations where the uke do attack at once? Or is there another rationale I'm missing for the second tachi tori uke?

Actually, I don't think much of the way the "sword" frequently is used in Aikido. In my opinion, it all too often leads to an almost limitlessly stupid self-overestimation, because in reality you wouldn't have the slightest chance against a good swordsman.
Could the "Randori" with several sword-wielding partners not simply be a holdover from the pre-war and wartime periods impregnated by propaganda ... ?

However, as a pure teaching aid to evoke certain reactions and to explain movement principles in Aikido, the use of a bokken can still be quite useful. However, this should in no way lead to the belief that one can easily disarm anyone as a matter of routine or that one is in any way equal to or even superior to an armed person through one's own knowledge of Aikido.

I don't know your examination system, but I could still imagine that a second partner behind the examinee with his Bokken has the task of forcing the examinee to do a really good Irimi, for example.

Best,
Bernd

Currawong 07-24-2021 05:41 PM

Re: USAF Nidan: Tachi Tori?
 
Funnily enough, I was watching a 2nd dan test on Youtube the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWyjY6w5_9E

I don't know about other countries, but back in the '90s in Australia at least my teacher used to do multiple-attacker weapons' jiyuwaza. I don't ever recall seeing it in a grading though.

nicholsonadam 07-29-2021 12:37 PM

Re: USAF Nidan: Tachi Tori?
 
Quote:

Bernd Lehnen wrote: (Post 355401)
Actually, I don't think much of the way the "sword" frequently is used in Aikido. In my opinion, it all too often leads to an almost limitlessly stupid self-overestimation, because in reality you wouldn't have the slightest chance against a good swordsman.
Could the "Randori" with several sword-wielding partners not simply be a holdover from the pre-war and wartime periods impregnated by propaganda ... ?

However, as a pure teaching aid to evoke certain reactions and to explain movement principles in Aikido, the use of a bokken can still be quite useful. However, this should in no way lead to the belief that one can easily disarm anyone as a matter of routine or that one is in any way equal to or even superior to an armed person through one's own knowledge of Aikido.

I don't know your examination system, but I could still imagine that a second partner behind the examinee with his Bokken has the task of forcing the examinee to do a really good Irimi, for example.

Best,
Bernd

Of course, I would estimate my (or most of our) odds against a skilled swordsman as almost as low as the odds of being set upon by a skilled swordsman in the first place. :)

But instilling and demonstrating situational awareness of an/other attacker(s) is as good a rationale as any I might come up with. I'll process it through that perspective. Thanks!

jamesf 05-18-2022 06:31 PM

Re: USAF Nidan: Tachi Tori?
 
It's been around three years since I've watched a nidan exam, but if memory serves, the USAF exam starts with taijutsu, in hanmi handachi, with two ukes attacking in sequence. When the exam got to weapons-taking, I seem to remember there being an extra uke brought in so that there was one attacker for each typical aikido weapon. They then attacked the examinee in sequence.

I don't recall whether the sandan exams bothered with a weapons section, but for the taijutsu randori section, there did seem to be more effort at coordination. (Obviously this only goes so far when you have a random collection of ukes, rather than a team that trains together in group takedown tactics.)

Yondan exams were mostly ad hoc demonstrations, with very few parameters given by the committee. (It was the first time I've seen ganseki otoshi, in person. The whole audience simultaneous went, "Whoa!")

I haven't seen Yamada-sensei grade an exam himself (I started going to seminars after he mostly stepped down from that role, at least at seminars), but my own instructor tells me that the exams he gave were a lot more random. By comparison, the testing committee more-or-less follows a written curriculum.


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