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-   -   I want my Aikido to Matter (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23962)

lifestylemanoz 11-15-2014 09:03 PM

I want my Aikido to Matter
 
I wrote a short piece on cross training and the future of Aikdio.

Love your feedback. Usually prokes more thought...

http://aikidohombu.com/want-aikido-matter/

Mary Eastland 11-16-2014 06:49 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Aikido matters. What you seem to think Aikido is and what I think Aikido is are completely different.

lbb 11-16-2014 05:38 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Hello Russell,

The title grabbed me, but then it sort of dumped me off the cliff. "I want my aikido to matter" made me think that I was going to read an interesting exposition on what it meant to you, for something to matter, and what characteristics your aikido would have to have in order to matter. Instead, at the point where you were apparently about to expound on this, you said, "I don’t look at Aikido as so much as a series of prescribed moves but as a method for teaching me good movement.". OK...but (and I'm not trying to be obtuse) I don't see where that has anything to do with aikido "mattering". Maybe you can clarify?

Rupert Atkinson 11-16-2014 09:28 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 340756)
Hello Russell,
"I don't look at Aikido as so much as a series of prescribed moves but as a method for teaching me good movement.". OK...but (and I'm not trying to be obtuse) I don't see where that has anything to do with aikido "mattering".

Makes perfect sense to me :-)

lbb 11-17-2014 06:33 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Rupert Atkinson wrote: (Post 340758)
Makes perfect sense to me :-)

Then explain and stop being coy. The essence of something "mattering", to you, is that it teach you good movement? If aikido could teach you to move like the dancers of Alvin Ailey, who certainly move very well, would it then "matter"? Is that also what you look for in everything else that "matters" in life?

Rupert Atkinson 11-17-2014 07:26 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Well - do you do Aikido to learn techniques like a robotic prescribed grading textbook ikkyo, or do you learn movement that applies itself everywhere - movement that sometimes manifests as ikkyo ...?

lbb 11-17-2014 08:58 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Rupert Atkinson wrote: (Post 340763)
Well - do you do Aikido to learn techniques like a robotic prescribed grading textbook ikkyo, or do you learn movement that applies itself everywhere - movement that sometimes manifests as ikkyo ...?

I'm not trying to be rude, but your question (while no doubt a useful jumping-off point for its own discussion) does not answer my question -- which, in any event, was addressed to OP, who is presumably the only one who knows what he meant. But never mind that, let's hear from you! What exactly does it mean to you that your aikido "matters"? Is your answer (in statement form) "that it have movement that applies itself everywhere"? What exactly does that mean? Is that the only thing that you need to have your aikido "matter"?

I apologize if I've just put words in your mouth, but again, you weren't answering my question, so...:D

Mary Eastland 11-17-2014 01:04 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Why aikido matters:

1. Self defense
2. Exercise
3. Developing responsibility for one’s own responses
4. Connection and compassion for others
5. Connection and compassion for one’s self
6. Spatial awareness
7. Developing agility
8. Developing suppleness
9. Immune system booster
10. Mood enhancer from endorphins and Ki exchange
11. Spiritual development
12. Physical practice for being in the now
13. Meditative opportunities
14. Social interaction
15. Spiritual development
16. Helps with the development of stronger intuition
17. Community connection
18. Developing good posture (inner and outer)
19. Developing relaxation
20. Helps maintain a realistic life outlook

kfa4303 11-17-2014 01:28 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Overall, I liked the sentiment of the article. Aikido IS in desperate need of an infusion of "reality", "return to basics", or some means of objectively testing and refining itself. That doesn't mean full-blown contests with medals, ranks, etc..., which really would be detrimental, but the idea that an Aikidoist can't/shouldn't seek to test their skills (spar) is ultimately counterproductive. It's not only a waste of time and energy to study a *martial art* that doesn't work, it's also potentially lethal to the practitioner who honestly believes their techniques will/should.

Aikido didn't become so popular in such a relatively short amount of time, particularly amongst high-ranking martial artists in the know, because it didn't work. On the contrary, many of the early students were converts from other arts and were more than happy to take on all comers at all times. That doesn't mean they were picking fights in the streets (although actually many of them were, not to mention starting that little even called WWII.), but they didn't shy away from a challenge, either. A gentleman never does, after all.

If all "modern Aikido" is willing to do is limit itself to some form of glorified, vertical yoga, it can, will and should die a pre-mature death. The sooner the better, in fact.

Also, it's no coincidence that O'sensei's own book on Aikido is title "Budo", rather than "Baking cookies".

lbb 11-17-2014 01:50 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
OK, so no one wants to answer the question. I can live with that.

(but it's why I've pretty much given up on these "discussions" here)

lifestylemanoz 11-18-2014 01:53 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Sorry if it tears up some people. I am just writing as I'm thinking and not really censoring or rewriting anything. I just spew onto my blog, post and let people read it. I don't have any answers really and I don't expect anybody else to have answers. But spirited debate can healthy to thought processes. And, there are some great comments in this thread and it shows how passionate people are about their martial arts. So my question is (Rhetorical) do I keep using my blog as a therapy tool and share with the world??

I know the only thing that really has helped me in Martial arts is turning up to training.

Peace out! and thanks for the comments
Rusty

phitruong 11-18-2014 07:36 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 340770)
OK, so no one wants to answer the question. I can live with that.

(but it's why I've pretty much given up on these "discussions" here)

i thought discussion usually go both way, i.e. idea exchange and examination. he mentioned his idea, you don't care for it. you could bring up your idea of whether aikido matter to you or not matter, then we all go from there. does not matter aikido the same as anti-matter aikido? and would matter aikido come in contact with anti-matter aikido result in large energy release, i.e. the elusive ki? and could fermented cabbage help with catalysis the process?

lbb 11-18-2014 08:39 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 340779)
i thought discussion usually go both way, i.e. idea exchange and examination. he mentioned his idea, you don't care for it.

No. Wrong. I couldn't "not care for it", because there was no "it" to "not care for".

That was my point, which I thought I explained with sufficient clarity. Russell made a post with a title that I found intriguing, so I read the post and then the essay, expecting to see an exposition of what he meant by his title. I didn't find that. I still don't know what he meant by it. Several other people shoved their oars in, and I'm sure they might have interesting things to say about what it means TO THEM to have their aikido "matter"...but (and I apologize because I know this sounds a bit rude) I wasn't asking them. I was asking OP, the person who wrote the line. In his latest, it sounds as if the line may mean something to him (!), but he doesn't want to expound on it. OK, I can live with that, but I don't think there's anything wrong with my asking.

So, you've framed this as my disagreeing with Russell's idea. You're completely wrong in that, because I still don't know what Russell's idea is. I'm not going to belabor him for it, as I said, because it doesn't seem to be forthcoming. but don't mischaracterize what I said.

phitruong 11-18-2014 09:09 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 340781)
No. Wrong. I couldn't "not care for it", because there was no "it" to "not care for".

there is an "it". he spoke of it in his blog. his statement "I want my Aikido to Matter". "my Aikido", not "Aikido" in general, and that stated a subjective point of view, his. what matter to him, isn't necessary matter to you. i saw his "it". No idea what you not see.

lbb 11-18-2014 10:44 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 340782)
there is an "it". he spoke of it in his blog. his statement "I want my Aikido to Matter". "my Aikido", not "Aikido" in general, and that stated a subjective point of view, his. what matter to him, isn't necessary matter to you. i saw his "it". No idea what you not see.

You continue to miss my point, Phi. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with subjectivity or objectivity.

This is what's actually in the essay.

Quote:

In regards to Aikido, I want it to matter. What do I mean? I don’t look at Aikido as so much as a series of prescribed moves but as a method for teaching me good movement. When people decide to spar and use Aikido, I believe their approach is all wrong. What Aikido teaches is Maai like any martial art system. Watching people trying to spar against a striking system they are not familiar with makes me cringe.
So, Phi: precisely what is the "it"? What? Let's break it down:

"In regards to Aikido, I want it to matter. What do I mean?"

Oh yay! Now he's about to tell us what "aikido mattering" means to him! But then he says:

"I don’t look at Aikido as so much as a series of prescribed moves but as a method for teaching me good movement."

Ok...so...um...what makes his aikido "matter" is that it is "a method for teaching [him] good movement"? Is that it?

That was my question, and THAT'S ALL. Now please stop trying to make it into something else. Sheesh almighty.

ken king 11-18-2014 11:22 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
My aikido matters because it gives me a platform for aiki development. Martial technique, movement skills, falling ability or physical fitness benefit are a bonus. Aikido matters to people for different reasons, the thing is what we make of it.

phitruong 11-18-2014 12:19 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 340783)
So, Phi: precisely what is the "it"? What? Let's break it down:

not planning to break it down, but putting pattern together.

1. picture of a bjj take down - fighting
2. Big headline with relevant words - "non-combative", "cooperative" and a question mark
3. first paragraph - "So for me, I am happy to learn a martial art from someone but in the end unless they have fought in a war, some vicious street fight or organised professional fights then for me it is just theory."
4. various examples: boxing, bjj, MMA, grapling,
5. and last "That's why I enjoy watching people who are trying new things with their Aikido, training against other martial arts styles."

can you see the pattern? can you see his "it"?

lbb 11-18-2014 01:10 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
I give up. Clearly not communicating here.

Demetrio Cereijo 11-18-2014 05:38 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 340785)
not planning to break it down, but putting pattern together.

1. picture of a bjj take down - fighting

It seems to me nage is forum member Roy Dean.

Rupert Atkinson 11-18-2014 06:15 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Kenneth King wrote: (Post 340784)
My aikido matters because it gives me a platform for aiki development. Martial technique, movement skills, falling ability or physical fitness benefit are a bonus. Aikido matters to people for different reasons, the thing is what we make of it.

Ditto.

Erick Mead 11-19-2014 02:08 PM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 340785)
..."unless they have fought in a war, some vicious street fight or organised professional fights then for me it is just theory."

1) vicious street fight
2) organized professional fights
3) war

The first one has no necessary rules, no necessary theory and survival is the only "win."
The second one has rules, no particular theory, and winning is achieving more than the other guy under the rules.
War also has no necessary rules -- but it is an exercise in ruthlessly applied competing theory; winning goes to whoever combines the best application with the most capable theory. (e.g. -- "First with the most").

To my mind, any martial art must approach either 1 or 2 or both in the spirit of 3. Good training must be informed by good theory. Bad training will not be able to put into effect even the best theory. You will likely lose a war or a street fight if your application is crap OR if your theory is crap. Rules serve as substitute for theory in competition, but that isn't really the same thing at all, which is why IMO aikido largely (and correctly) avoided competition.

Aikido matters in that way.

fatebass21 12-08-2014 06:55 AM

Re: I want my Aikido to Matter
 
Quote:

Kenneth King wrote: (Post 340784)
My aikido matters because it gives me a platform for aiki development. Martial technique, movement skills, falling ability or physical fitness benefit are a bonus. Aikido matters to people for different reasons, the thing is what we make of it.

Short, direct, to the point, and I agree with it.

Additionally, my Aikido matters because I am a different person when not studying. I am less relaxed, confident, and able to deal with change when not training. I respect it as a way to learn about myself, other cultures/languages, and to support my local community. While I do believe cross-training is important, having first an Aikido foundation goes a long way.


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