"Muto"
I wonder if any of the board's Japanese speaking or native speaking members might be able to explain the meaning of "muto" in relation or context of sword disarming application.
Many thanks in advance Dave |
Re: "Muto"
No idea if this is right...
Mu - Zen concept of "nothingness" To - another pronounciation of the kanji for "katana" so.... "No sword" ? "Sword of nothing-ness" ? That's the closest i can come with the information you've given me. Anyone want to give it a better shot than i did? |
Re: "Muto"
If I remember correctly, the "Heiho Kadensho" (of the Yagyu Shinkage ryu) contained some interesting thoughts on the concept of "muto." I'll see if I can dig up my Japanese copy of the text tonight...
-- Jun |
Re: "Muto"
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MUTO was a famous practice of the Yagyus, no? Wasn't Muneyoshi, at the time a famed swordsman himself, bested by Kamiizumi (?) without the latter having even taken up a blade--thus MUTO. The Yagyus then worked out a curriculum for it. IIRC, the old man guessed that as good as he was at it, he could do it successfully only 6 out of 10 times. |
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Thanks, Bryce |
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I may be (probably am) wrong but from the explanation given to me by my Jujutsu and Aikijutsu instructors, muto was translated as "no sword" and implied an unarmed man facing a swordsman. The waza I'm familiar with all focus on taking your opponent's sword and either controlling him or turning his own sword against him.
Akayama Ryu includes a group of muto waza that come from Jikishinkage Ryu Aikijutsu. Mark Barlow |
Re: "Muto"
Hi Dave,
I just took a few minutes to translate some of the relevant sections from the "Heiho Kadensho" on "Muto no Jutsu." These are taken from the book, "Budo Hidensho" which was written/compiled in 1968 by Yutaka (I think:豊 ) Yoshida. The original text of the "Heiho Kadensho" was written, according to the introduction, in 1632. The following is all my translation, so all errors in doing such are mine. Loosely translated from the section, "The truths regading 'muto no jutsu'": Quote:
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Hope that helps, -- Jun |
Re: "Muto"
Jun,
Interesting and informative post. Thanks for taking the time to do the research. Mark |
Re: "Muto"
The book "The Life Giving Sword" is an English translation of the Heiho Kadensho for those of us who don't read Japanese. From what I remember (that's always shaky) the author's translations come pretty close to what Jun wrote.
Bronson |
Re: "Muto"
Jun... Guys.
Great!! many thanks for the time you've spent on this, very helpful. I wanted to present some thoughts on tachi-dori to my students, but more form the position of how bloody dire this type of situation would be if faced against a reasonably skilled Iaido/kenjutsu-ka. The information you guys have clarifed has helped me write the paper which will accompany the practical lesson. Many thanks again Dave |
Re: "Muto"
1 Attachment(s)
Jun, Guys,
In respect of the information in this thread, I have attached a .txt file containing the first draft of the document I wrote on the subject of tachi-dori. I'd appreciate your comments (good or bad) I meant to say that this document isn't intended to be definitive but accompanies a series of physical lessons Regards Dave |
Re: "Muto"
Dave,
For what it is worth, I think this is a very nice piece. Thanks for sharing. dmv |
Re: "Muto"
Hi Dave,
Nice article! Thanks for sharing. -- Jun |
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Kent, thanks for your comments.
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You will also note that I haven't mention specifics other than to comment on the "enter under the handle" being the same in principle to shomen uchi ikkyo; however, as a sword user I know all too well that a trained swordsman will adopt whatever posture/kamae which he/she feels affords the most advantage, even if this is used to 'fool' the unsuspecting opponent in to a sense of security. Regards Dave |
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Regards Dave |
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Kent, thanks again for your continued dialogue although your line of questioning is almost akin to your fellow e-budo member who virtually accused me of being a fraud simply because I choose to use the sword as an integral part of my Aikido study, I'm bordering on finding that slightly offensive.
Given that you mention e-budo in a recent last post I think I should continue and clarify that following a conversation with Mr. Owens on that forum, I actually altered the wording on my dojo website from "Iaido" to "Batto-ho", I did this because I accepted his point that in the 'scheme of things' it appeared as if I was teaching "iaido" as a separate discipline (which I do not). I will also point out that I am a member of an organisation here in the UK which had Kazuo Chiba Sensei as its technical director for over ten years, we (though not necessarily all) are therefore influenced by his weapons philosophy, myself included. Perhaps when you visited my website you may (or may not) have noted that the (now entitled "Batto-ho") page is (and always has been) presented very much as part of our 'Aikido study' in that; it explains why we study it... and I quote just one short paragraph to illustrate my point... "Batto-ho may be studied for the same reasons as weapons work with bokken and jo: for what it reveals the roots of Aikido as a martial art." - Kazuo Chiba Personally I feel you like others on e-budo don't like people (like me for instance) using the term Iaido or batto in the context of Aikido study and development, and I quote from an e-budo post to me... "Do you do real iai or something else?" Just like me asking if your aikido is the real aikido or something else because I study Aikikai and look down on other forms. Isn't it ? Anyway, I may well be doing you an injustice and apologise if this is in fact the case however; this is the impression I have from posting just two polite questions on the e-budo sword forum and, your responses here. I posed a question here to gain some knowledge on a particular subject which is of a great interest to me. I did this to enable the writing of a short but hopefully informative document which would (does) accompany a series of lessons for my students on the subject of tachi-dori/Muto application. As I clearly stated it was not intended to be a definitive article and, as you pointed out was a shade linear in its thinking concerning styles etc. (point duly noted, thank you.) Taking this into consideration anyone reading the 'draft' would understand that I am no expert (nor do I purport to be) and was merely attempting to widen both my own outlook and that of my students in a particular subject. Given that we were all beginners at some point, I am somewhat amused at your comment about my desire to give my students "half" a chance in learning the maai required, in essence a starting point in the basics... Quote:
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</sense of humour re-engaged> :D Regards Dave |
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It might be simpler to look at it from the point of view of facing a gun. If you are in such a situation (far more likely than facing a sword), would you be thinking how to rapidly move forward and disarm him, or would you be thinking of what to say to talk him out of it? Which one is more sensible, I wonder? |
Re: "Muto"
Indeed, what may be sensible however, the point of the article and the training wasn't to train people in negotiation skills. But your comments are valid never the less.
Dave |
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