Ten Shinsho Jigen Ryu-combat sword and aiki
Recently I have added Tenshinsho Jigen Ryu to my practice. Tenshinsho is an active,combat form of sword that appears to be very obscure in the United States.Unlike other Iaido forms that I have been aquainted with, Jigen ryu is dynamically aggressive and maintains a primary marriage to combat sensibility .However, it is also the most compatable form of sword with Aikido movement that I have ever been exposd to. The persitance of attack and the speed with which we draw is amazing to combine with aikido. It is very alive.
I am fortunate to train with Phil Ortiz Sensei of the NYC Budokai.www.newyorkbudokai.net/curriculum.html Here's a link to a demo at CherryBlossom in Japan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6k0LJqIZp4 Does anyone else out there practice Tenshinsho Jigen Ryu? |
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I have just started in a different koryu art, Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo. I think that in general the distinction between iaiDO and the koryu arts is in that combat sensibility.
I have been delighted to find that my body "takes to it" - not to say that my form is any good; it certainly ISN'T! - but that my aikido background has made learning the gross movements a lot easier than I'd anticipated. http://www.suioryu-usa.org/index.html |
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Interesting youtube video on Jigen Ryu. At least from the video, I see no evidence that it is any less or more compatible with aikido than any other form of iaido. It definitely seems to have some connection or relationship to the Jinsuke-Eishin Ryu lineages.
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iaido is generally accepted as koryu arts unless you are talking about for example kendo practioners practicing only seita gata. I think you are putting out a false distinction there. Some people might use the label do, some jutsu, in general it's XXXX Ryu or XXXX Ryu Iai kenpo is a bit weird to attach to the end there, except it does reflect the hybrid nature of this school's history. Quote:
Rather it looks more like the distinction you are thinking of is that this is intended to be a sogo budo. |
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I've found that a lot of the generalizations made by different Iai teachers about iaiDO are aimed more at Seitei Iai than many of the koryu lines of Iai. Like you point out however, the name of the ryuha can tell you a lot more than the seemingly random classification words. I do find it odd that Jigen ryu would be considered particularly compatible with Aikido, since it's known for it's very direct powerful movements. To the untrained they often look a bit brutish. Perhaps it's a different line, but this is what most of the Jigen Ryu that I've seen looks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq6lrpzVfm4
Update, looks like this is a smaller line that's quite different from most Jigen ryu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6k0LJqIZp4 |
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Mike |
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My understanding is that the Jinsuke-Eishin line originated after Hasegawa Chikaranosuke Eishin (Hidenobu), 7th Headmaster of the Hayashizaki Ryu, developed his own style which was later incorporated into the Jinsuke-Eishin line of teaching by Arai Seitetsu Kiyonobu, 8th Headmaster of the Hayashizaki Ryu. Do you have any sources that indicate a more specific date of when the Jinsuke-Eishin line originated, or of the birth date of Hasegawa Eishin? (Since Hayashizaki was born in 1542, I think it is safe to assume that Hasegawa, Hayashizake Ryu's 7th generation successor, lived later in the 17th century as some sources suggest.) According to the information linked above, Mima Yoichizaemon Kagenobu (founder of the Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo) studied Hayashizaki Ryu when he was 18 year old, or around 1595. Doesn't this mean that Yoichizaemon most likely studied the original Hayashizaki Ryu (perhaps still called Shimmei Muso Ryu back then?) and not a later transformation of it (Jinsuke-Eishin line or Eishin Ryu)? |
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The video is a little dry (as can be the case with video) and I'll seek for another more alive clip if possible. In my experience TSS Jigen Ryu is fairly obscure and I am interested in sharing it. While it may not appear on video to be anymore compatible than others you have practiced, which I can accept because it is your eye viewing, I experience Tenshinsho, the way I'm practicing it, as incredibly inspiring and dynamically compatible with energetic aikido. Whether it is more or less compatible than others isn't really my intended point. That I find it very compatible with my practice, is. I would like to share my practice with anyone who is interested in checking it out. Thanks for looking at the video and lending to the conversaton. I'd be interested in learning about your Iaido practice a little bit more. Without knowing you well online, you seem to have a wealth of knowledge. About TenShinSho Jigen Ryu: The inspiration I draw from this relates to the bouncy, forward stance and the central position of the scia at the obi at all times. In TSS Jigen Ryu the scia remains relatively static and the left foot is forward for the draw and the hip drops back to draw while the feet stay the same. The blade is drawn 'pizza pie style' I call it, because the blade is flat and drawn in a flat plane, often. The style has a 'wild' nature in a certain respect. This I also find to be inspiring and it has brought new life to my practice. |
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This is one of the rare times that i can spot a difference in the way a different iai school does things.
Not saying that i belong to a school of iai; i have only done very little (waiting for my knees to toughen up ;) ) MJER and some MSR (Is that right Mike? The Otani stuff?). Kendo gives me most of my sword practice. I have a question, and pardon the ignorance! In the first kata after nuketsuki the kensen continues in an almost unbroken movement to the right. Why is "the line" not controlled? Peace and love budoka Jo |
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So when I say Jinsuke-Eishin, I am acknowledging the two men who are thought to stand out the most in the whole lineage going back to the 1500's. Was this just a confusion of names for you or something more ? Quote:
call it Shimmei Muso Ryu (what Jinsuke called it) call it Shin Muso Hayashizaki Ryu (what is immediate followers called it) call it Hayasizaki Ryu call it a dozen other different names and permutations or call it the Jinsuke-Eishin lineage of swordmanship The history of what influence what isn't a simple discussion. Jinsuke-Eishin Ryu is not to me saying the same thing as Eishin Ryu. |
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but it did make what they are doing here a bit more intelligable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znESdcxjkdU&NR but the videos below seem more mainstream or at least in line with the original video (be prepared to watch the dried paint) Tenshinshou Jigen ryu demonstration 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoofcmsMpEw 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY4dhA2vxbs 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-rJ6oVQ9XM 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znESdcxjkdU&NR |
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Mike |
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If you watch closely the first nukitsuke, he does clearly control the line as you say at the end of his horizontal cut (yoko ichi monji). There is a clear pause establishing his position and control. I took the next part, while quite different in movement and timing from MSR or MJER to be their form of furikaburi (transition to a kirioroshi). |
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(Jennifer, sorry for the thread hijack…)
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I wasn't confused with the names, just using them interchangeably (i.e. Hayashizaki = Jinsuke). Quote:
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Again, thanks for your comments. -Gerardo |
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I would like to take a minute to say that Phil Sensei( and Deborah Sensei occoring to phil) are incredibly generous and gifted Iaidoka who are continuosly learning new forms and also train consistently in the arts taught by Otani Sensei. Phil Sensei has been at the dojo for over 30 years and Deborah has been there for 20. Phil Sensei generates wonderful relationships with many people where ever he goes, so if there was previously some separation from Japan, there doesn't seem to be any longer. He is an incredibly devoted teacher and student of Traditional Japnese Arts (including horseback Kyudo). I can only recommend training with him if you ever get the opportunity. Thanks for the post. Jen |
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Thanks. Looking forward to it.:) |
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