Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
When considering how to improve any Martial System it is necessary to take inventory, and examine if what is being taught is logically consistent and beneficial to the system as a whole.
Take for example the teaching of "Ki." Lots of Aikido people run around talking about "ki", but the fact of the matter is that the teaching of "ki" is simply a mystical/magical teaching which conjures belief in superstitious nonsense. :p Students attempt to clear their minds, chant words or syllables, breath a certain way, assume postures, and so forth in the attempt to grasp or develop a magical power that is about as real as George Lucas' "Force." :cool: Students and Teachers would do better spending their time in the examination of, and actual practice of technical skills, rather than pretending to direct a make believe power from their bowels to their fingers. Another example of the useless mysticism inherent in Aikido was the recent video that appeared on one of the forum threads. The clip did a nice job demonstrating technical skills that actually make up the system of Aikido. However, from time to time one would see something like: "Aikido is love." flash on to the screen. :crazy: Aikido is love? Please. Why not say, "Baseball is love." , "Golf is love.", "Nascar is love", or whatever else someone decides love is to them. The word 'love' quickly loses any meaning. If a word can mean anything, then it simply means nothing. Aikido is not love. :yuck: Aikido is a Martial system. Aikido class may be a place in which you can practice loving your neighbor, but Aikido is not love. Just because a teacher, or a founder of Aikido was a nice guy, this is no basis for concluding that what he taught was the source of this kindness. Just because a teacher, or a founder of Aikido claims that what he teaches will bring a moral harmony and love for mankind, this is no basis for concluding that what he taught actually accomplishes his claims. If a person was not familiar with Aikido, and its mystical teachings, do you really think that such a person would conclude that Aikido was the way of peaceful harmony just by watching a demonstration of Aikido projections or neutralizations? Of course not. They may be impressed, but no such moral assertion will be made from watching such a demonstration. The reason it would be impossible to deduce a moral principal from a visual or tangible demonstration is because you cannot start with something you see (Aikido demo), and end up with something you cannot see (moral ideas). One can practice ethics in Aikido class, but one cannot deduce ethics from Aikido. If ethics are taught at Aikido class, then they did not come from Iriminage or kotegaeshi, but from Asian philosophy or religion. Since that is clearly the case, why should I pay homage to such Asian religious philosophy? Why not some other religion? Why not deontology? Why not utilitarianism? If I want to go to church, why would I go to Aikido class? If I want to learn how not to fight, couldn't I just ask an Amish person? Wouldn't that be easier than all that physical combat training? Aikido is combat training isn't it? The Amish manage not to fight without Aikido. The Amish manage to live in harmony without Aikido. Maybe Morihei Uyeshiba should have joined an Amish community instead of the religious school of Omoto-kyo. If you don't need Aikido to live in harmony and peace with your neighbor, and clearly you don't, then maybe Aikido doesn't need Asian philosophy of religion in order to function. Maybe Aikido is simply a physical exercise that can be used in a self-defense situation. RED BEETLE www.kingsportjudo.com |
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
You aren't talking about the mysticism itself but the mistaken/misinterpreted or incomplete views of Aikido that many of it's practitioners have. So your rant is like laughing at one of the blind men groping an elephant. They each think the part they have their hand on(or perhaps in) is the elephant but no matter how vehemently they argue their point they are wrong. Some of them aren't even touching the elephant ffs.
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Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
I'm afraid I have to agree.
You obviously have not trained indepth with Aikido so you are coming across as arrogant and insulting, which I am sure you do not intend to be Red. The first lesson of Aikido, imo, is connection. There is no point discussing until you have this to give us a place to start communicating with each other. btw I don't consider myself to be a nice guy...just nicer than before :) |
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
No I think red made some very valid points.
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Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
I actually disagree with alot of what he said. I certainly understand from his perspective that this may not be what aikido is to him, but it certainly is to many and I don't consider it to be a waste of time spending time on the "internal" aspects.
Why do you want to focus soley on the technical aspects of the art? What is it that you want to gain. "Combat effectiveness"? Your living in a world of romantic bullshido if you think that any martial art is going to give you skills that will make you combat effective in and of itself. Sure, you can get some good things like kotegaeshi, nikkyo etc...but failure to understand the underpinnings of principle will leave you lacking. Building character, perception, and the ability to read a situation and people around you is much more important aspect of studying martial arts than any limited technical skills you may learn. The art of awareness, posture, breathing, the ability to keep calm under pressure are much more important to my overall combat effectiveness. I've used all those things in "combat" , rarely have I ever used any of my technical skills. sure, there are those that I do not consider warriors or "martial artist" that study aikido, but that does not mean that aikido is not meant for them. They get something out of it. I get much of the same that they do. Aikido can be an allegory for peace and can be a physical manifestation of resolving conflict. I think that is a wonderful thing. What is wrong with that? I don't consider it a waste of time. If you want simply the "external" things that make you "combat effective". Get yourself a stick, some pepper spray, a gun, and take some classes and learn how to use them the right way. I guarantee you will be miles ahead of anyone who studies TMA or any empty hand art at all. Please spare me all the "what if" scenarios dealing with why you need to study empty hand while you are alone in a sterile environment. I consider that to be a waste of time for 99.9% of the time. |
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Fun post, though. Reminds me of myself. Thanks. |
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"The Art of Peace begins with you. Work on yourself and your appointed task in the Art of Peace. Everyone has a spirit that can be refined, a body that can be trained in some manner, a suitable path to follow. You are here for no other purpose than to realize your inner divinity and manifest your innate enlightenment. Foster peace in your own life and then apply the Art to all that you encounter" Quote:
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Anyway, I hope I haven't stuck my head in the elephant too deeply. |
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
The Problem with mysticism, is that it's mysterious. If you lose the mystery (not knowing what's going on) then it's no longer mysterious, however if you don't lose the mystery, then you can never learn what you are doing. Mystery is for the ignorant. If you know what "ki" is (or rather what others refer to as being "ki"), it's not mystical anymore. Most people in Aikido are trying to become masters of something that they want to stay in the dark about.
It's very hard to pin Aikidoka (I'm generalizing here) down when it comes to asking them what they want. I think the main reason for this is because they want to keep everything a mystery. They don't want to come to the conclusion that Aikido's syllabus isn't good for everything. They don't want to conclude that Aiki is basically rhythm, and reading of intention. They don't want to discover that "ki" is just alignment and energy exchange that any high school physicist could explain to you. If they came to a conclusion on any of these things they would loose their mystical system. Unfortunately by doing this they limit themselves to mediocrity. By never admitting to yourself that a something is normal, dependable, and useful, you can never master it. This isn't a sickness limited only to Aikidoka, it's an infection you see in the whole traditional martial arts community. They would rather not understand the reason for something, so they can live in the hope that it will never be just "normal". People want fantasy, and mystery. Thetas all fine and well Intel you attempt to learn, master, and teach something. I've often said that most traditional martial artists should join a reenactment group, or theater company and not a dojo. The only problem with this non-mystical thinking is that it tends to close down openness to new things. Which is what I'm always looking for. If there is some new way to do something (even if I have to dance around in a funny dress, and yell vowels to find it) I want to learn it, this however doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to what I already know, and be afraid to admit what I have learned. -Chris Hein |
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
I don't think there is anything mystical about training to become stronger and then less likely to become a victim.
Ki is not magic....... it is just co-ordination of mind and body. Looking at conflict as a way to create peace is a good idea. Mary |
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
I would have to disagree with the statement that Ki is not a real thing. In every culture, there is a way to define this natural occurrance. Westerners tend to define in it a secular way, whereas I think Easterners tend to explain it in a spiritual way....either way, it makes sense.
Now, if we merge the study of Ki/Chi with realistic training methods and techniques, I think an art becomes very effective. The only flaw I see with Aikido is the way some people practice it. The techniques have their validity, as does Ki. Applying them effectively comes down to how much we want to train and how we train. Don't confuse your personal failures and the effectiveness of an entire system. That being said, I think there are a few things most dojos could do occassionally to solidify the effectiveness of their technique. |
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
Red Beetle,
According to your website, you don't practice aikido. Neither do I. Although I share your opinions on the role of ki and mysticism in the martial arts, I find it rude that you wish to impose this view on others. Mysticism is an integral part of Aikido. Those who practice Aikido gravitate to it for this reason, and those like you and me choose other arts with less emphasis on mysticism. If Aikidoka want to feel that they are in harmony with the universe and act with love and compassion as they inflict horrible pain (be it temporary or not) on an attacker, that is their business. I'm sure they have equally disdainful opinions about my willingness to strike an attacker full force in the face. I do not wish them to impose their philosophy on my art, as I do not impose mine upon theirs. Keith edited to correct spelling |
Re: Aikido minus mysticism: a step forward
"better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
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True pacifism is having the ability to kill someone and then choosing not to. I think that definition of pacifism is more in line with aikido than the Amish way of turning the other cheek. (As has been stated by Matthew Zsebik in post #7, btw.) |
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Most Aikidoka don't know if they are capable of defending themselves or not. Atleast the Amish arnt' pretending. -Chris Hein |
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But, to make sure we're on the same starting page: How would you define "mysticism" in the context of your thoughts in this thread? Quote:
-- Jun |
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Keith Kolb wrote:
"Mysticism is an integral part of Aikido." Quote:
But I think mysticism was the air the founder breathed and so an integral part of aikido. Interested in your take, Jun. |
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Mike |
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I think we're starting to get off track when we talk about the sexual tendencies of the Amish........ I would agree that mysticism is an integral part of Aikido, I had never really thought of it that way, it's an interesting thought. -Chris Hein |
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I'm sure there are many people out there who will say that they are not interested in anything but the physical "put your partner's butt onto the ground" part of aikido. For them, I wouldn't necessarily say that any sort of mysticism. That is why I said that I do not necessary agree that mysticism is an integral part of aikido. -- Jun, off to the dojo to have my butt put onto the ground |
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As for striking with the intent to do damage: I will concede that there are aikidoka who have no problem with my willingness to beat the crap out of my attacker if you concede that that are many who would have a problem with it. |
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My opinion. Mike |
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Mike |
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