Assessing "IP/IT/IS" via video
It is often said that you cannot see "IP/IT/IS" in a video, or at least, you cannot see what is actually occurring. Many also say that you CAN see when someone is not doing/using "IP/IT/IS."
I would like to delve into this notion. Besides, finding out what something is not, can help us understand what it is. My hopes for this thread are that people will post videos, or make reference to videos that have already been posted and state what they find impressive, what they believe is happening in the video, how the exercise/skill is beneficial, what they find lacking, etc. Even better would be for some posters to take the time (probably less than one hour total) to make their own video of an area of their practice that they would like to share, and explain what is being shown by narration, text, or both. Below are a few links that seem to pop up frequently. Akuzawa in London 2006 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAJVQMCWeOA Chen Bing MMA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIc5NIfrnJs 94 year old Ba Gua http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZdtM5p6ZkA Mind, Body, Kick Ass segment with Kuroda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXsMSoXrNgo |
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Let's imagine 2 tries. In the first try Nage has not yet mentally arranged his structural paths inside (that's what "intent" means) and Uke just pushes him over. In the second attempt, Nage arranges his structure inside so that Uke's push is met with an angled force-path from the ground that acts as a brace under Uke's push; Uke is therefore pushing against the ground. You cannot see the minute changes that go on within the body to change the alignment paths, so seeing a picture or video isn't going to show you much. If, however, Nage has to drop down to two legs and lean a bit toward Uke and tense his shoulders, we know that he's almost certainly not using intent and is instead using some variation of normal strength. Often what you're looking for is based on your own experience through the years... and you're looking for what the demonstrator does wrong that tells you the story. FWIW Mike Sigman |
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Folks
Once starting down this road how long will it be before there will be any number of threads analyzing this teacher or that one. This is a path with many places to stubble and openings for the angry defense of individual teachers. ….it will end badly. |
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I've never forgotten one guy I worked with in New Hampshire once and he was a bright, 50-plus year-old guy. He caught the inferences of everything immediately. When we talked after the workshop I asked him what he was planning to do (in terms of training, based on the look at internal strength). He said he was just going to quit... he felt his teacher has taken his money and time and loyalty for so long that now he didn't have a chance to get things, this late in life. While I sympathize with "teachers", I also think that students are people worth worrying about, too. Clinical evaluations of internal strength demonstrations are fair, IMO, as long as the issue is kept clinical. 2 cents. Mike Sigman |
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Hi Gary
Good point. As many here now know all to well-it is amazing how much invective, personal attacks, politicing, agenda and mixed messages can embroiled in these so called clinical discussions eh?. And as you also know they are worse behind closed doors. The good news is that there is work being done in person by people who actually do *support* the efforts of teachers and student alike who want to learn instead of lip service. Anyway, good cautionary note. Interesting years ahead for sure. Dan |
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In regard to the picture, nage is extending energy through his arm as uke tests progressivly stronger to help nage feel and trust his center.
Mary |
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Mike |
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Chen Bing is using Koshi and all is from koshi. 94yr old is using Hara. Kuroda, firstly is meeting, leading, moving, cutting. Then it shows how he 'walks' from center. Then in freeform it is a demonstration of shin shin toitsu. Finally a demo of moving one point. Regards.G. |
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All of those videos look like normal things to me. I don't see anything strange or unusual in them at all. Why would one need IP to do any of those things?
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Chris, I think that a lot of these things are just getting started and your questions are valid one. Graham states his perceptions, just as everyone does, and those are the other side of the coin. On my part, I would say that there is simple physics involved, whether using athleticism or internal-strength (neijin), so I would actually take a third position from you or Graham on, for instance, the old Bagua guy. Hara is always assumed, but in the case of the old guy there is something else involved. Keep your mind open. ;)
FWIW Mike Sigman |
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Regards.G. |
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FWIW Mike Sigman |
Re: Assessing "IP/IT/IS" via video
What I see from the 94-old Bagua man video :
- with first uke (black tee shirt) : When receiving uke's contact : Bagua man places his intent between his feet and the point of contact (shoulder the first time then chest), via his center, as if compressing a spring. He then releases his body's stored energy (releases the spring) linearly to push uke away, using the ground as fixed point to transmit his extension to uke's end. At the third attempt he guides uke away the same way but adding an extra element : he uses his perception of uke's structural weakness and guides his release to unbalance him "into a hole". - with uke #2 (grey shirt) : Same principle but : his spring is a spiral instead of a straight compression spring, winding under uke's energy, then unwinding to push him away. Note that this time the push is made from Bagua man's side (it was from the front with uke #1) - with uke #1 and uke #3 simultaneously : Simultaneous winding/unwinding movements on both sides at the same time (one spiral spring for each uke) His release is quicker this time. I would say that he previously released his stored energy progressively while with this attempt his intent blocks the stored energy (as if cocking an internal pistol trigger) then "pulls the trigger", thus releasing the stored energy more suddenly. To take a more bodily analogy, the first attempts are like blowing his nose, this one is like sneezing (both result in air being pushed out of the nose, but the internal processes are different). - with uke#3 alone (white shirt) : Sudden releases from the side, but this time he seems to drop his weight (see movement of the hand on the other side at the first attempt), then uses some kind of rebound to send the energy to uke. The elbow of the grabbed arm also seems to indicate a quick downward movement before the push. - with uke #2 : Sudden releases from the side, the position and relaxed state of the grabbed arm clearly indicating that it cannot be the source of the push. It could at best only convey power originating from the body. I also interpret the time when Bagua man shows as he could lose his balance as such : he could be saying "see, if I tried to push you away with my upper body, I would not be solid enough against you so I would fall over from my own force, but now, if I place my weight very low, between my base (the feet) and your point of contact, I can push you and remain stable". Funnily enough, uke #3 behind mimics the hand moves but does not seem to get it. My attempt is of course open to comments and corrections, I claim no expertise on the subject and have no credibility to defend. I also add that Wikipedia helped with the spring and trigger explanations. I would be interested to know what Bagua man says (he often seems to say something like "now I do this, then I do that"), in particular when he touches his head an points downward (around 00:36). Anyone care to translate ? |
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BTW I recognise Tamura sensei on the left, does anyone know who's on the right, could it be Maruyama sensei? |
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YMMV Mike |
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Let's keep science away from IT as long as we can.
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So keeping western science out of internal-strength discussions is actually an idea antithetical to the original descriptive literature. FWIW Mike Sigman |
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What was an attempt to explain back in the day can be used for concealement today. |
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FWIW Mike Sigman |
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Also, I do not think that it is Shugi Maruyama as well - someone identified these two the last time it was posted by Mike, so maybe search the archives for that - good luck. Greg |
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