Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

During my time at school we were never given the chance to study a martial art, some schools do offer arts such as Judo and Karate in sports lessons, however they never seem to regards it as a serious option, in UK schools at least.

I'm interested in hearing what other countries do and whether you feel it would be beneficial to teach Aikido at high school level.

Do you think young adults at that age are too immature to train with their fellow classmates? or maybe this is exactly what they need to gain respect for each other and become mindful of their surroundings (or streetwise, to put it another way) when they are let loose in the big bad world? :)

I would have loved to get into Aikido when I was younger, when my brain was like a sponge, soaking up all that knowledge, but the UK is not like Japan, I'm not sure our school kids would have the same mature outlook on martial arts as they have.

Maybe you teach Aikido at school, or maybe you know someone who does, I'd love to hear everyones thoughts on this...

Alex.

http://www.kuma-aikido.co.uk

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

I think it COULD be a great thing. Aikido is a less aggressive style, which could benefit those kids who have some anger issue problems. My old sensei used to say the kids who had behavior problems were the ones that could benefit the most from the class. She was right (at least with the students who joined our dojo).

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

The Internet is your Friend. :)

Seriously, here's a couple of articles and programs to get you started.

Kick Start. Started by Chuck Norris. I don't think it's exactly a program in high school, but it does target kids through high school ages.
http://www.kick-start.org/

MMA in Massachusetts high school
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/sp...rts/18mma.html

MMA club in Chicago High School. From the article, "My point is that this stuff saves kids' lives, and not in the self-defense way, either. But I'll let Bryan tell you himself, in his words."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/esther..._b_182628.html

I think someone else has long espoused that MMA creates better martial artists and better people. :)

San Marino High School supposedly has a Wushu Club.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino_High_School

Moanalua High School has Judo
http://www.moanaluaathletics.com/

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Thanks, interesting what your Sensei said about behaviour problems because I've noticed that with some students we have had previously at our dojo.

Thanks Mark, I appreciate what you're saying, but I'm not looking for information on martial arts at schools in details, I'm more interested in the views of the people here, for their personal experiences and opinions, that's why I like the forums here, more personal.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

I think it depends on what age range.

We had to take square dancing in grade school.I would have preferred Aikido.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

I think it's a good thing, as long as aggressive/confrontational kids are controlled. Unfortunately, it's easier said than done, and schools nowadays are more concerned about liability issues than about anything else, it seems.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

I'm all for it. For one thing, physical education is an underappreciated aspect of our public education system and I think some form of Aikido could be a good option.
Actually, I don't understand why we don't teach conflict resolution as a more integral part of Gen. Ed. Graduate it: Teach evasion techniques at an early age (primary school) along with basic conflict resolution skills, and progress from there with age-appropriate contextual applications. Why couldn't a school make it a one-quarter per year or two focus? At the very least why not include something as an extra-curricular club? I'm pretty sure schools in Japan have Judo clubs.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

My instructor used to teach after school classes in schools. It wasn't what I'd call a success. Most kids do not want to be there, their parents want them to be there. In fact it pretty much ended up that parents treated the classes like a creche. They could pay £7+ an hour for child care or dump their kids in Aikido for an hour for £3.50, so they came to Aikido.

The only children that made any progress were the "problem" kids that the schools kept dumping in the classes. The root cause of their behavioral problems seems to have been bordom due to being taught far too slowly because the rate of progress of these kids had to be seen to be believed.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

The concern I would have would be if kids were there because they had to be (parents or teachers made them, needed the credit). I just don't see that benefiting anyone the majority of the time. On the other hand, making something free and available to people who are genuinely curious to learn sounds great.

I think gym classes in schools (at least mine) have WAY too little variety. I know so many people who within a few years were completely convinced they were not interested in anything active, because the traditional big team competitive move a round object around to lots of arbitrary rules sports completely didn't appeal to them (also, in my school system, they weren't really taught or coached particularly - it was more explain rules briefly, throw all the class together and force them to play). We had no exposure to anything else until one brief mini-course in highschool where for about two weeks we did all kinds of random stuff like canoeing and archery-- at which point gym became non-mandatory but counted in you average (i.e., could and would bring it down), so any kid who wasn't completely hooked by that time dumped it immediately and celebrated their escape from the basketball/volleyball/etc torture.

Gym would have been a totally different experience if we had done short sections of different random activities that spanned an actual spectrum of physical things one can do.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

I'm not a fan of the idea. I think that most people of any age aren't suited for martial arts practice. I know the "it's for everybody!" line, but it's not really true. All it means is that people aren't automatically not suited to martial arts practice because of their size or gender or physical ability or whatnot. It doesn't mean that martial arts training is right for the average person, and if you've trained for a while, you've had a chance to observe that. Of the people who started training with you, how many are still training in three months? In six months? In a year, or two, or five, or ten?

The people who belong in a dojo are the people who want to be there. It's not for those who are there because they're required to be there.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Wow things are different in America! thanks so much for your replies, it's interesting that sports is part of the credit system at American schools.

In most parts of the UK, if not all, I think when I was a school kid they taught sports as a mandatory lesson, which consisted mainly of ball games and some indoor exercise stuff. 'Rounders' is a good example, that's kind of like mini baseball over here in blighty! :D

Then once or twice a year at my school we did a cross country run, again completely mandatory, which most people hated because it created a kind of leader board of failure haha, terrible memories! :crazy: Then when you got older in your final couple of years everyone didn't really want to do sports because exams were far more terrifying.

Nowadays I think there is more variety over here but still nothing to inspire young kids, apart from the ever present football teams. Like you said Basia, if schools maybe provided access to many different activities, maybe by visiting different places each week to experience things like archery, athletics, martial arts clubs, tai chi, all that kind of stuff, it would definitely inspire more people to get involved at least.

I know I would have looked forward to every sports lesson if I knew I was going to go somewhere and see something instead of get changed and go out into the freezing cold playground and get thrashed at footy by all the wannabe David Beckhams! :D

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Couldn't you say this about English class too though? No one I knew in school wanted to be there and were only there because they were forced to be. Most people stop training in language skills as soon as they don't have to, but that doesn't mean they're not suited to it.
...and regardless of their desire, that's a case where I wish more people would take more effort so naturally we should force them in that direction! evileyes :D
Some people don't like physical activity and I'm all for respecting that, but I think some exposure could be good, particularly if approached right.
Besides, I think conflict resolution and self-defense skills would be greatly appreciated by a number of kids.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

What style of Aikido would you teach? A soft style like Ki Society or a harder style like Shodokan. Is it being taught for self defense reasons or to make them feel good about themselves.

Martial arts are not for everybody and certainly Aikido more so.

Could you image if everyone in your high school was forced to take wrestling?
David

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Perfectly stated! You also don't want kids who are doing it for the class credit, but have no real affinity for it, walking around trying to crank sankyo's or whatever on random people. If they don't really care about what they're doing they're not going to have much respect for what it's capable of.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

As my links show, and other research will show, those schools that have some sort of martial arts club or focus will have a martial art that has a competitive focus. Aikido does not, and as such, will be a rare find in high schools here in the U.S.

If you look at athletic programs in high schools, the major ones are always competitive. Football, basketball, and wrestling easily come to mind. I don't think Aikido would be a very good idea for high school.

First, aikido teaches a sort of passive aggressive behavior. Think about it. What do we learn in aikido practice? First, how to roll and fall for "safety". But, we learn that when our center is taken, to roll and fall. It is usually far later (as in years) that people start learning reversals, etc. So, initially, you have a passivity reinforced through repetitive rolling and falling. So called "break falls" are the worst. "Break falls" normally require a willing uke to help complete the action of twisting in mid air to land in a specified position.

Add to that the lack of competition, and you get some very badly reinforced habits in the early stages of aikido training.

Then, an "ideal" is projected upon aikido trainees about "20 year techniques", "self defense only", "lethal techniques", etc, etc, etc, to rationalize away any competitive nature. Thus, an aggressive attitude toward why aikido fares poorly against peer level judo, BJJ, MMA, boxing, etc. "Peace", "love", and "harmony" add in to the rationalizations.

So, I think aikido in high school would ruin teens rather than help them.

BJJ, judo, MMA have a competitive atmosphere that teens can use as an outlet for all that energy they have. Plus I've seen quite a few incidents that show very "sportsmanlike" conduct from BJJ and MMA people. I watched one UFC event where the guy made an illegal hit. I'm not sure why and I don't know that anyone did. But the guy stepped back, held out his hands to get the opponent to pause for a second, and then apologized for his illegal hit. They then continued to fight.

Overall, I think teens in high school are better served by a competitive sport rather than aikido. It builds camaraderie in a team environment, a competitive nature which will help them in the real world (non academic and non governmental world), give them an outlet for their high energy levels, how to work as a team player, setting goals in an environment where other people are actively trying to negate those goals, push them to limits, etc. All these things are much more served by competitive sports than non-competitive aikido.

And as Ueshiba's history proved, he, too, went through that phase. He went up against many people of different backgrounds who tested his mettle before he finally settled down into the aikido he had created. He stated that he spent 20 years doing hard before he could do soft. So, I wouldn't shortcut high school teens from those experiences either.

Historically, too, Tomiki (and all the others) had to have that great background in judo before meeting Ueshiba so that he had the experiences to understand that what Ueshiba had was foundationally and vastly different than his own experiences.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

"I would have loved to get into Aikido when I was younger, when my brain was like a sponge, soaking up all that knowledge, but the UK is not like Japan, I'm not sure our school kids would have the same mature outlook on martial arts as they have."

I can assure you that your idea here of Japanese school kids is erroneous. Japanese school kids are just like all other school kids, and they have no more inherent maturity on any topic (including budo) than any others.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

So what's your argument? We force kids in school to do one pointless thing, so therefore it makes sense to force them to do all pointless things? I think you just made my argument for me :D

Actually, it sounds like the point that you're making is more or less the opposite, sort of "English class isn't pointless even if kids don't want to do it." Well...aikido class isn't pointless either. The class isn't pointless, but an individual's presence there may well be, which is why I'd oppose adding it to a mandatory curriculum. And no, I'm not going to get drawn down over the slippery slope of, "Oh well, let's just make all classes optional, shall we?" The proposal to add aikido to a school's phys ed curriculum is a proposal to add another requirement to an existing series of requirements, some of which could stand to be reexamined. I can decline to take on the task of top-to-bottom educational reform and still have firm grounds for stating that mandatory participation in aikido class for school kids isn't the way to go.

This, of course, presupposes that an aikido sensei is qualified to teach conflict resolution and day-to-day self-defense skills. I think that this is a bad assumption, particularly the conflict resolution. Everyone who doesn't practice martial arts thinks that they have the power to teach the yout's all these amazing things: self-discipline and restraint and perseverance and respect for others and focus and blah de blah de blah. Hands up, senseis! Tell me about how, in your association, anyone who is to be named shidoin has to go through a mandatory session in which they sit you down and say, "Okay, here's how you teach self-discipline and restraint and perseverance and respect for others and focus and all that other crap!" Oh yeah, you remember that class -- it came right before the class where they taught you meditation and other esoteric practices, or was it right before? Doesn't matter anyway, because neither one of those classes happened. A lot of senseis -- not all -- are pretty good exemplars of self-discipline and restraint and perseverance and respect for others and focus and all that other stuff. That doesn't mean they can teach it to others, or even that they've ever really reflected on what they have. Some senseis are very good at conflict resolution. Most are probably good enough at the level where an adult human being has to be in order to stay alive and out of jail, but very few will have really studied it to the point where they can teach it to others. Some senseis have made a real study of self-defense applications, but not all -- and a lot of those probably haven't thought through issues like situationally appropriate uses of force, which is pretty vital when you're talking playground scuffle vs. knife-wielding ex-employee.

In summary, I think that teaching martial arts to children opens up a big can of worms that, for the most part, we silently agree to pretend isn't there. If you start making such classes mandatory, the mess gets too big to ignore.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

"In most parts of the UK, if not all, I think when I was a school kid they taught sports as a mandatory lesson, which consisted mainly of ball games and some indoor exercise stuff. 'Rounders' is a good example, that's kind of like mini baseball over here in blighty!

Then once or twice a year at my school we did a cross country run, again completely mandatory, which most people hated because it created a kind of leader board of failure haha, terrible memories! Then when you got older in your final couple of years everyone didn't really want to do sports because exams were far more terrifying."

That sounds SO much like my elementary school experience. Then part way through high school it became an optional course for credit.

BTW, I really disagree very much with the idea that competitive sports are more suited to schools. It's precisely because so few schools do anything else that half or more of the kids despise gym and drop it like a hot potato the minute it stops being mandatory, and that kids from a young age have learned to strictly divide themselves into active 'sporty' kids and the rest of the world who is inactive. If they actually acknowledged different personality types and interests, they might actually attract more than the same group of kids who always does all these sports.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Great posts people, thank you, I expected this would have equal weighting on both sides of the fence.

It's interesting how some people feel it's not a good idea for school and others really like the idea. I agree Mary; I think an Aikido class in school would be a good option to be able to choose, and not pointless at all, it's true some students would be a complete waste of time and not embrace it but that's the same with everything.

If I were a teacher I would be looking for those one or two students that got engaged and had a passion for it, if it were an option then the students who didn't enjoy it could do something else.

Not all kids are aggressive, competitive and immature and I'm surprised that people on here would tar everyone with the same brush by saying 'No Aikido in schools' simple because a select few are not being sensible about it.

Brett: I imagine there are a lot of naughty Japanese kids, but on my travels to Japan and other parts of East Asia I found there to be a much better maturity and sensible attitude in the kids than here in England, I have taught at college and University and English teenagers are a nightmare in comparison. Obviously this does not count for all English kids, nor does it mean all Japanese kids are saints, I just felt a difference. We English do tend to be 'wind up merchants' :p

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

I totally agree Basia! :D

I think you have to experience English school to understand it, it's not like American school.

That's exactly what I mean when you talk about two side emerging, the 'sporty side' then 'everyone else'. That is why I wish there had been something like Aikido when I was at school.

Something that I could have been part of and felt confident about rather than feeling like I was crap at sports and subsequently avoiding it like the plague. Plus I bet the girls would have fancied us as little Ninjas, which would make up for the piss taking by the footy kids about the pyjamas :rolleyes:

Thanks for your post Basia!

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Your point is well taken, but I think that, in public schools particularly, "tarring all with the same brush" is difficult to avoid. It would be problematic to single out and exclude those kids whose personalities are judged to be of more concern. I think a school would have only two practical choices: 1) let everybody in, or 2) keep everybody out. To do anything else would be a top-of-the-lungs invitation to litigation. That's just the world we live in... :(

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Hello Everyone,

I am currently teaching an Aikido program in five middle schools and one elementary school. It is part of an after school program. I agree that Aikido isn't suited for everyone. But if you don't try something how do you know if it is suited for you. And with that if you don't give it a chance, meaning more than one or two classes how do you really know if it is for you. How many things have you tried and just quit on?

This is the second year I have taught in the middle schools and I am teaching at two more schools this year than last. It is true that some youngens don't have a choice but to participate in my class and some of those students don't make it. Safety is my biggest concern and it is something we discuss. When a new class begins I explain to students that my class is not like thier normal school classes and those that get out of line will get a smack on the back of the head. ( I teach all my regular classes the same.)

Students that will not listen are sent out and can try my class again in the future but as I explain not listening is a safety issue and again safety if my first priority. I teach everything that I would teach at any other class and the only thing that has been hurt during a practice is a bit of pride.

At each school there are students that have a tremendous ability for Aikido and some that do not. Ability isn't an issue so much as attitude. And believe me, middle school youngens have some serious attitude. It isn't however something that can't be overcome in time.

As for the style of Aikido I teach...my SAikido comes by way of Hawaii so it has been descrided as "rumble" Aikido. Youngens like physical contact/activity, well some do so they enjoy the aspect of throwing one another down. Applying techniques comes after students have demonstrated to me they can be safe in what they are doing. We also discuss the use of what we do in class for outside of practice.

Ideally parents would be more involved in thier children's lives but for a lot of reasons they cannot be or will not be in this day and age. Aikido is a magnificent way of prividing a structure to everyone to help them become better individuals. This is the same for any other martial art or activity. A great deal of this is dependent upon the teacher.

If you want any other details feel free to pm me.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

Thanks Lyle great stuff. Good to here it's working!

In reply to Clark:

I didn't say anything about excluding anyone, I was referring to them choosing to change subjects. if it were an optional class they would be able to try it and then change if they felt it wasn't for them.

I also find it strange that you refer to public schools, why would private school kids be any different? After all, they do not choose to go to private schools, it's the parents or legal guardians that decide that.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

This used to happen at my dojo. Parents should should be involved in thier childrens' lives. I expect parents to sit through an entire class at least once a month. I only have a couple of young youngens in class now but thier parents are there almost all of the time and I have a couple of parents that train with thier children.

Re: Aikido in Schools: What are your thoughts?
 

It absolutely is. So, how do you teach your students to become better individuals, and who taught you how to do that?