Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
Just a note, I believe the word you are referring to is sempai...and personally, I tend to avoid it outside of a strictly Japanese context. Western society doesn't really allow for the development of the sempai / kohai relationship. It tends to become easy to abuse even in the Japanese context, let alone outside of it.
Best, Ron |
Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
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Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
No arguement from me Mary. I was just pointing out the mis-spelling of the word, and some of the complexities of using it outside of its original culture. No biggie...
Best, Ron |
Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
Ron, I believe she just made a simple typo, as she also spelled it right previously in the entry. :) I'm sure we all know about my typos in here. HAHA.
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Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
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I think most of the issues we deal with with "junior" students is those who might take themselves to seriously. Most people in my school at least, if they mess their ukemi up and you respond by changing the technique to correspond the uke is fine with it. They might either find the lesson of it, or find the humor of it. They enjoy training and the process. Now I'm not saying my ukemi is spectacular; note my flexibility thread for proof of that; however sometimes people purposely take bad, lazy, or defective ukemi. When they walk out of a technique, they splat before you even touch them, or try to muscle you down with them when they are thrown it can get dangerous if you don't change what you are doing. And I've come across two people that scream and make a scene if you change what you do in response. They fain injury, or get beyond flustered that they were "physically" corrected. I think maybe they are taking it all too seriously. BTW: when someone refuses to let go when thrown quite hard I've yet to fall with them... I'm luckily very low centered and naturally low to the ground, and I had an instructor that held on to me when I threw him to teach me good posture and good stance since I was a 6th kyu, so I've yet to land on the buggers. (I don't trust their ability to get out of the way if I fell on them, which makes me think it is a stupid move on their part even more so.) However, the person that likes to hold on to me just for the sake of being a difficult uke hurt her shoulder. I had good posture and finished low, she was still holding on. My body didn't give to the force but her shoulder did. I really didn't consider her trying to "prove" she was more skilled was worth sitting out to her or anyone else. It just frustrates me. I wanna scream "What is the problem? ! Just train and stop thinking your anything you're not, enjoy yourself and don't take it so seriously. I mean seriously, at 5th kyu you aren't going to impress anyone anyways, so cut it out!" I mean lol, I sure the heck don't impress anyone, I'm not going to break my neck trying. |
Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
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Secondly, how do you know what kind of relationship she has with her seniors? Just because she isn't Japanese doesn't mean she cannot relate. If that were true that one cannot understand a sempai relationship, can you honestly say that an American can understand a Sensei relationship... can one pass on any knowledge of Aikido without at least some knowledge of this relationship? |
Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
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I believe you are spot on with this observation. Ricky |
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Best, Ron (it is just an opinion, feel free to leave it if you like) |
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And as Ron is your sempai on Aikiweb now you have to bow very deeply and agree with everything he said. |
Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
Now that Jun has so kindly separated this out.... ;)
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B, R |
Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
{devil's advocate hat on}
Does it have to manifest exactly as it does in Japan for us to appropriate the words as something a little different from junior/senior? Where I train the dojo culture has a several decades long history of using the terms to describe a chain of support and responsibility. I think that when newbies are told that is what "sempai/kohei" means, it has meaning beyond the English words "junior/senior" which in most contexts bear no inherent relationship. So while we are not using the Japanese terms to describe the full relationship as it exists in Japan, it becomes a useful jargon, if you will, so students understand it as something special within the dojo context, just as we use other Japanese language terms. YMMV {devil's advocate hat off} |
Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
Hi Janet, works for me! I take it they make it clear there what it is to mean in that dojo environment.
Hey, I probably just think too much... Best, Ron |
Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
I'll second Janet's answer. I think it just comes down the the (rather obvious) point that we are not Japanese, especially old fashioned Japanese. My teacher is visiting my dojo right now. On the mat, she is vastly senior to me and very clearly 'Sensei.' Outside of the dojo we can go to dinner, see a movie, or whatever, as social equals and friends because that's how we do things here (in the US, anyway). That would never work in Japan.
So I think the same thing goes for sempai/kohai. In the dojo I expect my senior students to help the more junior ones (and they do!) and so on. Outside of the dojo we are a collection of people with widely varied backgrounds, jobs, and experiences - and no hierarchical relationship. Applying the dojo seniority structure outside the dojo makes no sense in our culture. What I do like to see extend beyond the walls of the dojo is a sense of community. We are all drawn together by our common interest in aikido and hopefully our lives are enriched by knowing each other. Cheers, Garth |
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Now we know what you don't like. There is a single thing in the world that you like? ;) |
Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
I like it when Jun spins these off. It lets those folks who are interested in one conversation continue it while giving another subject its own opportunity to be discussed. Uh oh, I sense topic creep.... OH NO I'm moooooving......
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Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
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No Janet, this dojo-specific relationship has nothing to do with real sempai/kohai system. It is a misuse of words and creates a lot of confusion. angel mod off |
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Moving around people's words is sketchy. That's all I'm saying. |
Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
Yeah, and if you don't watch your step, the Circus Ponies of Death will tromple you! :D
B, R |
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Re: Sempai/Kohai Relationship in Aikido
:rolleyes:
LOL Y'all take yourselves very seriously. ...:p Loosen the obi once in awhile; you'll live longer. lol :D |
Re: 5th Kyu Shihan
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On a personal note, I love your post, but I argue with everyone regardless of who they are. It drives my Sempai crazy :D |
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