aikidoka more humble than other martial artists?
Are aikidoka more humble about their practice than say, a kung-fu practitioner, or a karate-doka? The people whom practice the above or others actualy seem to brag more than most aikidoka I have met outside the dojo.
Any thoughts? |
Aikidoka do not compete and I think that is a large part of the "bragging rights" issue that some other arts might have.
The next factor is ego, which is discussed here on :ai: :ki: Web every now and then. This is a personal issue. Either the person has a "chip" on their shoulder or they don't... its that simple. Speaking for myself, I am THE MOST humble person that I have ever met or known so, I have no issues with humility. Just ask me anytime! :D Domo! John "Mr. Humility and proud of it!" Boswell ;) |
Quote:
As in all things, the participants in any art display a wide range of human behavior. Each individual speaks for themself. (and on any given day, their behaviors and your perception of them will change...) All of these comparisons are very heavy baggage to carry around. Practice for the sake of the practice. |
If you're contemplating your own humility, that's not a very humble act. Likewise, aikidoka talking amongst themselves about their humility is kind of ridiculous.
Personally, I must say that the couple of times I have done any sparring, it was a pretty humbling experience... which is not to say that sparring and such lead to humility. The only way to be humble is to realize that however good you are, there are always going to be people out there who are better than you are. If that isn't the case for some reason, you're probably enlightened, so it becomes a bit of a moot point *grin* |
Just so there is no confusion... I was most definitly joking and being sarcastic when I started talking about my own "humility."
I do think being humble, especially in martial arts, is very important. But its so much fun to joke about... especially when you make yourself the butt of your own joke as I did above. ;) Have a nice day, all! :) |
Quote:
Regards, Paul |
Re: aikidoka more humble than other martial artists?
Quote:
|
Quote:
So, "that isn't the case," and from time to time I am enlightened. I do think it's possible to be humble, still have a sense of self-worth, and know you're talented at something if you are. I've met arrogant aikido practitioners and I've met humble tae-kwon-do and karate practicioners. I was in Colorado once, and a guy asked me what the women are like in Miami. I said, "A little bit of everything." We have to be careful when grouping people together and saying, "These are like this, and those are like that." Drew p.s. I have met and trained with many humble aikidoka, and I think aikido does nurture humility. |
I think that aikido in the US accents less on overt aggression than the very Americanized forms of other martial arts. My first sensei (Shorin Ryu Karate) was a very mellow, non aggressive, simple man. He did not encourage his students to take on an aggressive stance, nor shout out their kiais, nor strike pre-emptively. He wasn't the stereotypical arrogant 'Cobra-Kai' MA instructor, but there are less out there than many assume. It's a stereotype I think.
Sure, there are MA organizations which help perpetuate this stereotype. http://www.usopen-karate.com/ However, I think that the media prefers to accent on these stereotypes. Okay, so humility can be another story. I have certainly read some pretty arrogant and flippant commentary on this and other Aikido websites, and I confess I have faltered myself. I think overall if the dojo mindset encourages 'harmony' in their 'do' then there is more of a feel of passivity which can seem like humility. However, how many times has an aikidoka thought to themselves 'I can do x technique better than so and so.' or 'I think this visiting sempai got their rank before they should've.' or even 'X style of aikido really isn't very effective, mine is better.' I must admit I may have thought one or two of the above things at one time or another, I'm working on it though. It's that whole masakatsu agatsu idea. I haven't reached victory yet. just my 2 :) :ai: |
I wish I could remember the thing correctly this early in the morning but someone said
Karate makes you aggressive Judo make you stupid Aikido make you arrogant. My appologies to the Judo players. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Many would disagree with me but I think the human mind has self delusion built in. Experience is the great moderator. When Kenji Tomiki talked about painting the eye on the paper tiger he was not only talking about developing technical skill. |
IMHO, we are arrogant about our humility. We do humble better than other arts for various reasons such as we don't compete and we have a spiritual/philosophical base.
Humility is being able to admit we do something well but not making a big deal out of it because if others train like we do they would be better at it and more humble than we are. If you really don't do it well then you have nothing to be humble about. Other arts take pride/arrogance in their competitiveness and victories. We take pride/arrogance in our cooperation/harmony and lack of winning over others. Same process just different content. Humility is not in the art, its in the person. |
Quote:
;-) If you were an asshole before training, chances are you'll be an asshole during and after training. YMMV. OTOH If you have two brain cells to rub together, it's pretty obvious that training in the arts can be a great means by which to confront your own issues. (assuming you're ready for that) And that doesn't necassarily mean namby pampy, wish washy navel gazing either. From rec.martial.arts *************************** I know. I was making a little funny, but with a point. First off on the joke level... one someone asks for "spiritual and mental training" for a woman.... the idea of suggesting MMA is kinda silly, aint it? But as with all brilliant posts, it works on 2 levels. The other level is.... in kung fu taichi schools you get psuedomystical gobbleygook dressed up as zen philosphy. In MMA schools you sweat, bleed, and in the end become a better person. You triumph over fear, over your own self doubt. You ultimatly develop control over oneself. Mayhap it could lead to some measure of enlightenment. Gi the learned ***************************** Again YMMV. ;-) |
Not sure if humility has that much value. Honesty with a true perception of yourself is much better. I've personally not noticed a difference in humilty between martial artists. One thing is that children are probably less humble (and therefore clubs with more children may be less humble).
I do think doing single person kata can give people an inflated view of their capabilities (since the imagined attacker tends not to move). However I think, karate and taekwondo are undergoing as much if not more change in training methods as aikido is. One thing I often see with aikidoka, however, is a belief in their own moral correctness! Ian |
I have been involved with various Japanese martial arts over the tlast 4 decades but principally Aikido. I can say through my experience that I have met per capita more big mouthed, self delusional, blowharded, self back-slapping, egotistical and maniacal jerks in Aikido than any other art. I suppose at one time I was right in there among them. Shit, I hope I have moved on!!!
|
because I have met through my first Dojo, in NYC, some who were very arrogant and stuffy, but others who were simply sweet as could be and kick-ass in practice.
But here in WVA, most are nice, but few are arrogant, just simply there, know what I mean? Could it be that experience breeds a certain calmness that translates into cockiness? |
Quote:
|
This is interesting if we consider being humble is knowing your defects whereas Modesty is whether you are boastful (warranted or not) of your abilities.
We probably see people displaying their level of modesty more than we can tell if they are truly humble. I don't think we can always judge someones level of humility just from their exterior conduct. We can definietly tell if someone is modest or not. If someone is boastful we presume they are not likely humble either. I do know other martial artists and in my experience I think Aikido people are about at the same level of humility and perhaps a bit more modest. Aikido students probably have less opportunity to boast since we don't have competition. Clues to humility might be when students try to always correct someone else since they "know the correct way" or they do not try something else they might be shown and insist on keeping to their own version of training. I think we are more challenged to be humble since there isn't as clear a way to test our knowledge as competition would. Conversly as we advance we should become more humble since our teachers should become more demanding of us and we learn how much we still haven't learned. |
Quote:
You were the instructor at the first Aikido seminar I ever attended. It was about three years ago at the FSU Aikido Club. I got nothing but good vibes from you so, if you were once arrogant, you definitely have moved on! I have met some "bigmouthed...egotistical...jerks" in Aikido too, but I find it interesting that you've found more of them in Aikido than the other martial arts. One thing I remember you saying at the seminar was that some people think "I know AIkido so I'm invincible!" I agreed with you that that is a poisonous thought. I read somewhere that Aikido is the most sophisticated and difficult of the martial arts, which could give aikidoka big egos. Due to an illness, I haven't trained in many months. When I was training, I had a greater feeling of self-worth, even pride, but I always tried to keep my feet down on the ground. When I was the highest ranking student at class one day, and Sensei was sick, I taught class. That's when I felt ego really creeping up and I really had to keep myself in check. Thank you, Hooker Sensei, for having humble pride. Drew |
Quote:
Like Mr. Hooker, I've encountered more arrogant, self-absorbed, jerks in aikido than in other arts. Like Michael Neal, my experience in arts that have a "competitive" component (like judo's randori, boxing's sparring and so forth) is that folks tend to be more humble as a result of competition. But again, YMMV. Regards, Paul |
I agree with most above that humility is a personal issue, not necessarily related to the art.
I have found that many aikidoka are not necessarily sure of themselves or their aikido and sort of have a complex about it. Not sure why other than the fact that we don't have competitions and don't really measure against others. This is both good and bad. Good since you should be studying the art to measure against your internal self. Bad because without a measure and the martial maturity many end up questioning their aikido or martial effectiveness. I think this lack of self confidence can sometimes be confused with humility. I think they are two distinct things. I have constantly struggled with humility throughout the years I have been a martial artist. It comes and goes. Like last night when I was at the gym watching some TKD guys trying to do self defense stuff. I really wanted to get in there and show them how to do it right!! It was painful to watch! However, having been KO'd at least once by an axe kick....I certainly was humbled that day! |
Quote:
Quote:
|
Oh !!! some one set the mirror right in front of us! Here is my reflection...
I have very seldom been accused of being humble in deed or opinion and this will not likely change any time soon. I seem to get along with this just fine. To answer the question though, No, the Aikidoka I have encountered do not corner the market on humility. They do not seem to be any more or less humble than the good folks in any other Martial Arts I have been exposed to. Being humble and or possessing and demonstrating humility is of the nature that it can only be measured by other folks. I can't reasonably or accurately gauge my own humility. If I try to tell others how humble I am or talk of the depth and breadth of my humility, then I would really just be enjoying a bit of arrogance and conceit now wouldn't I? I have never met any one who is truly humble that has not been through horrendous hardship or tragedy. Even fewer people can be humble in all aspects of there life and personality all of the time. I have an occupation that allows me to see people in humbling circumstances quite often. Always, immediately following a horrific event even people that may be considered by the world at large to be evil incarnate, are humbled. Maybe not long, maybe for a lifetime and maybe in all facets or just a small portion of their personality. Look up Dang Thong Phong Sensei. He is a living example of humble. Regards |
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:45 AM. |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.