Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
New blog post!
"Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family- Aikido and the Aikikai, where does it go from here?" Enjoy! Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Hi Chris,
Ifve already discussed rank and organisation with you a few times on this forum. I think you skew things way too much to make a point. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Regards Carl |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
Imagine a system in which a doctor can license other doctors - who can then license other doctors on their own. Would you trust yourself to such a system? That used to be the way things were done, but on a large scale it broke down for the very same reason that the ranking system has broken down. Quote:
Models for peer review are also quite common - virtually all US institutions of higher education are accredited through non-profit organizations and associations that provide peer review for those institutions. It seems to work well enough for accrediting Harvard, Princeton and Yale. It seems to me that those two models are two concrete suggestions for solutions, but maybe that's just me... Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
I'd like to note that I have no problem with Doshu "representing" the Founder. But that doesn't mean that I think that people will kick up to the Ueshiba family indefinitely for something that happened three (or four) generations ago as an organization without more return than a mail order piece of paper. That's absent a value judgement as to whether or not I think that they should - in any case, I think that the days of that model are numbered.
As for breaking lineages and violating proper etiquette - it's not very hard to argue that this is what Morihei Ueshiba and the post-war Aikikai already did, isn't it? Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Thanks for taking the time to reply Chris.
Also thank you for giving some examples of benefits and how you think things should be run. You said the following regarding my comment that no one expects Doshu to inspect every person recommended for accreditation: Quote:
Since you mentioned academic accreditation, I have a couple of university degree certificates signed by someone I do not know and whom Ifm pretty sure never read my thesis or vetted any of my work in person (especially the parts I did on exchange at a university in another country). And we are talking about a glineagesh (plural) system in my opinion. You have not shown how there are no checks or that there is no oversight on what I perceive as a system of lineages gathering around the iemoto-supplied figurehead. Quote:
Quote:
Glancing at my degree certificates again, I don't think I get any of these benefits. All they do is show that I completed a couple of programmes. Whether I actually gained any skills in doing so is another matter, but compared to the guy who has nothing to show for his studies, I have an indication of the possibility of transmission. The medical profession is a bit different in that if you donft have the skills, people donft get better, get worse, die etc so even to the layman it tends to be obvious early on in that glineageh if you arenft getting the basic gwazah. Again, I wonder if you have contacted the Aikikai directly. Are you publishing your complaints internationally on the internet following the rejection of your ideas? Quote:
Regards Carl |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
IMO, the top down approach won't work - the Aikikai no longer has the leverage or the prestige to impose new rules without the active consent and participation of the community and organizations worldwide. It may look different in Japan, where there is more direct contact - but abroad many (most?) Aikido students today don't even have a clear activity of what the Aikikai is or how it's organized. Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of a general umbrella organization like the Aikikai that connects people and groups with a common interest. I do think, however, that the current model is unworkable over a large scale, and the sooner people realize that the better. On the other hand, realistically, I think that it is unlikely that we'll see a major restructuring, and that the Aikikai is likely to slide into a condition of increasing irrelevance as an organization for most students of Aikido. Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Perhaps we should be talking less about a solution to the current system and more about a reaction to the current system. For example, dojos could react by offering their students a choice of receiving a dan promotion from Hombu (expensive) or from the head teacher of their dojo (inexpensive). Same test, same standards, same incentives to seek promotion, same bragging rights. The Hombu track versus the dojo track.
There might be a benefit to the Hombu promotion for a student who expects to move to a different part of the country (or world), or who hopes to someday establish a seminar practice. As for students on the dojo track, they would know that if they ever desire a Hombu promotion they will have to start all over again. Over time, the comparative value of each would be revealed. I wonder if Hombu would allow such a system in a member dojo. Then again, maybe some dojos already do that. As for the idea of some sort of independent accrediting organization, its first and perhaps impossible mission would be to define what is and is not aikido. |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
http://www.nippon-kan.org/senseis_ar...rofiteers.html Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
Ron |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
OTOH, I don't think it that likely a thing to actually happen. Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
|
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
I think the article critically underestimates the typical nth generation student's knowledge of and interest in the Hombu.
It is sort of taken as a given that the further you get away from Hombu the less the typical student knows or cares about the Aikikai. My assumption is that any Aikido school that is in a relationship with the Aikikai is going to have students put on Japanese martial arts clothes, bow and clap, use Japanese vocabulary, etc when training. It seems a little odd that people who would enjoy spending their time doing such things would be so diffident to the idea that there is a five-story dojo in Tokyo that is packed with 7th-9th dans. |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
|
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
|
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
I am not sure why paying money to an organization in Japan would lead to increased feeling of enhancement. Definitely a matter of YMMV.... |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
In France and in Belgium (among other countries) there is a system of double ranks Aikikai and National Dan, where the person (not aikidoka at all) representing the Ministry of Sport supervises tests and sign national dan diploma.
How about such solution? LOL It is really funny IMO. Also, there are few dojos I know, that many years ago abandoned Aikikai ranks system, and in fact don’t deliver ranks at all. Then suddenly after many years of practice the students realized they have nothing to prove their involvement and commitment to the art. For sure the best solution would be getting rank from own teacher – but such diploma will have the value proportional to the reputation of the teacher. So many would prefer to replace it with Aikikai reputation LOL |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
One way to look at it is, the issues that come with large democratic bureaucracies setting standards and such....the Japanese style vertical hierarchy with a figurehead at the top is basically a solution to that.
|
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
What if your instructors weren't affiliated with the Aikikai? Would that make any difference at all to a sense of "connectivity"? When I started with Saotome he wasn't with the Aikikai, and all of my early ranks came directly from him, not from the Aikikai. As I recall, nobody cared, really, or felt less "connected" to the roots of Aikido, or felt more "connected" once he reaffiliated with the Aikikai (test fees went up a lot, though). Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
|
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Quote:
I've never had a problem just walking in and paying the daily training fee, even when I wasn't with the Aikikai. The only people I've heard about that had a problem had to pay the membership fee (about $100, far less than testing) and then they went up without a problem - without having to come from an affiliated organization. Anyway, I don't see that as a major draw, especially considering what the training at hombu is like. Best, Chris |
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family
Aside from the annual dues (now $75?) from every yudansha in the world, does hombu require affiliated dojos to sell a minimum amount of product, er, send in a minimum amount of testing fees annually?
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:42 PM. |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.