Aiki vs useless waza ?
In my view "aiki" and technique or waza are two seperate themes, but I strongly believe the one leads to the other just like being young has got nothing to do with being old but still there is a clean connection in the sence that the one leads to the other- I guess..?
Why should we distinguish between the two and whats the purpose of that ? Any thoughts on this anyone ? Cheers Lars |
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"Aiki, in me, before Aiki between thee and me." Harden Most people have no idea how to produce the actual "aiki" that Takeda and Ueshiba were doing and why the above quotes makes so much sense and are the same thing. It is a 180 deg turn around from the way most people even see their art. As I said back on the aikido list "It's full speed ...in the wrong direction." So.....the modern approach substitutes movement and waza to cover their structural flaws and openings. Ueshiba, Takeda, Sagawa all knew and explained that: Aiki begins inside you.... not between two. The modern approach, by its very nature "depends' on the two!! Another way to look at it is: The old way is movement of energy The new way is the energy of movement. I am taking Jun's and other folks advice these days and spending an effort to explain why, instead of just being critical of the modern approach. Most everyone keeps pointing to the old way and bragging on the skills of Ueshiba and his prewar people without considering those same peoples approach to do what they did. Dan |
Re: Aiki vs useless waza ?
waza is the reality, aiki is the mystery
waza will give you very small hints how aiki works |
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Greg |
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Ueshiba had an extensive solo training regimen So did Shirata-Kisshomaru banned it So did Takeda Takeda said never teach white people, and only teach one or two per generation. So did Sagawa As Sagawa noted: "Aiki is about training the body, only a fool thinks you can get it from practicing waza." Here we are decades later.............mostly westerners....talking about aiki from waza. Okay...who do we want to feel like? What did THEY do? They each had a solo training regimen....why? What did it do? Dan |
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Cool how so many different quotes-spanning eras and cultures...all fit. Almost like they involved the same type of work!! Dan |
Re: Aiki vs useless waza ?
O´sensei was one of a kind and so was the other geniouses of aikido.
Wery few of us will ever be able to reach their level for many very good reasons. This doesn´t make aikido useless I feel. My question still stands: What´s the purpose of distinguishing between aiki and waza ? |
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Aiki is the state or condition and waza is the motion, the 'do'.
Peace.G. |
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Greg |
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:-) |
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Waza leads to aiki and aiki leads to new realizations thus new techniques. That´s life. :-) |
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Greg |
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The buttomline is that waza is indistutable in terms of learning aikido and so is aiki in terms of enhancing your training over time. Afterall were all doing aikiDO- no ? Cheers, Lars |
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Correct motion helps you develop correct condition and correct condition helps you develope correct motion. Interdependent.
Peace.G. |
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From my experience it´s possible to learn techniques- maybe not perfect the first couple of years- but gradually over time all the small adjustments you are talking about falls into place. In a way I feel basic understanding of our motory skills from the outset are more important than understanding aiki from the outset. Sooner or later awase will emerge by itself as a consequence of training. I don´t believe awase is something that can be taught and learned in 6-12 months. |
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Greg |
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:D |
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"Waza leads to aiki", in theory, in practice I think it's very difficult for most people to extract the principles from the morass. Best, Chris |
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Thats why for me there is no such thing as no waza. And still I believe aiki is equally important- when youre ready for it ! But I also feel that if you only learn aiki and poor posture and bad movement from the beginning your aikido will surely suck. Please bear in mind this is my PERSONAL opinion and not ANYBODY elses ! :) Lars |
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Best, Chris |
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Best, Chris |
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