Aikido IS a practical contemporary martial art
PLEASE don't see this thread as an attempt to revive any kind of "does aikido really work?" discussion. Nothing interests me less. Instead, I thought it would be useful to share what I personally love about Aikido...
My brother has trained in kick-boxing for quite a few years and loves UFC, etc. I, on the other hand, have studied aikido for about 3 years and despise UFC. He is particularly interested in the 'practicality' of martial arts and that got me thinking what one would want out of a contemporary martial art. It seems to me that it might have to have 3 elements: 1) It teaches you how (not) to fight Does the martial art actually develop us as moral beings, teaching us how to promote peace, as much as how to fight? 2) It makes you feel more relaxed, not more violent Following on from point 1 above, does the martial art help you dispose of the stress and tension of the day, removing those unwanted knee-jerk resorts to violence? 3) It enables a gentle application of the martial art Given that many contemporary scenes of violence involve friends and family, we may not want to always go all out. Does the martial art then allow the possibility of using the least possible resistance? 4) It is an effective form of self-defence Much of 'self-defence' is covered in the earlier items, although some might still use the term in its more tradtioinal sense of physical defensive techniques to defend against physical attacks. Given that limited definition, does the martial art provide tools and techniques to defend against attack? 5) It is effective against multiple attackers Does the martial art provide techniques for defending oneself against a group of attackers? If these questions are relevant, it suggests to me that much of what we see in things like UFC is as far as one could get from likely contemporary scenes of violence. Conversely, aikido actually scores quite highly in terms of a practical contemporary martial art. Any thoughts? |
Re: Aikido IS a practical contemporary martial art
I think that your points to a large degree are things that you as a person value and seek rather than being descriptive of Aikido as a whole.
As for instance Demian Maia shows us, you can compete in the UFC and still value much of the same things that you do. Hear Maias statements after his great performance against Chael Sonnen in the last UFC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc49loAFRxE |
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Yes, if, morals are to be added to martial arts. They must be properly enforced, practiced, and modeled by the instructor. Then they must be supported and practiced by the dojo. Quote:
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UFC is an entertainment sport and has the same relevant stuff as Pro boxing, Pro wrestling, Pro Football, Pro Hockey. Btw, Hockey players are under rated fighters. Hockey is a martial art! :) The real problem is people live in hypotheticals and fantasy worlds, be it UFC, Aikido, etc. That really is imo the issue. :) |
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Maybe another way to look at it is this: in the grand scheme of practical self-defense there is a lot of ground to cover. Some of us need to focus more on the list of skills you provided while some of us need to focus on something more like "ground and pound" (a gross simplification of MMA). By two-bits at least.:) |
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However, I'd say that they are more than descriptive of what I seek from Aikido and actually match what I personally have experienced. |
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I'm afraid that I'm at a real loss to see what you're actually responding to. What are you actually saying is a myth? As I tried to make abundantly clear, I'm not interested in an Aikido vs. UFC discussion. That was simply the context for my post. Quote:
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Reading it again, my post was really badly written. What I was trying to do was a) compile a list of the kinds of things I personally would look for in a contemporary martial art and b) compile a list of the things I love about aikido. I was then gonna be all smug and clever and show how the two lists were - from my perspective, at least - virtually identical. Quote:
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There's only one excuse for having an excellent saftey record in martial arts: you're training co-operatively. |
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How do you actually use a martial art to teach someone how NOT to fight?
What I am getting at is how do you take a methodology that is designed to impart many ways to teach someone to fight, and then say the endstate is to teach them how NOT to fight? It seems to me that your endstate is to teach them how to fight. It might be a by product that the learn to judiciously apply that skill as might be required. I am alway curious when I hear folks say "our goal is to teach people how not to fight." I mean at face value, that is what they probably come to you with already, the inabiity to fight!" It may seem trival, but I see alot of stuff out there being passed off as "martial" that simply is not, and the phrase "we are teaching people how not to fight". is the caveat that seems to get used to excuse any real ability and gives permission to reduce it to an "allegory" or an "exercise". Where do you think that line should be drawn? |
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I am wont to call my aikido classes, "full contact origami".
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Hi Kevin,
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All I know is that I work in enough inter-personal conflict situations (domestic violence, child welfare, etc.) and have studies martial arts long enough that I'm convinced that a decent contemporary martial art should contain elements of conflict resolution. (If it doesn't, it's just fighting.) It can do this explicitly or implicitly. If the latter, perhaps it's just in the way that the art transforms us as people when we study it. Personally, my experience with aikido (and I'm an 'aiki-fairy' who is honoured to study ki aikido in the tradition of Sensei Ken Williams) says that it is both explicit and implicit. Some words from Terry Dobson, which I hope I'm not misquoting, spring to mind: 'It is your responsibility to protect the person who is attacking you. This is extremely sophisticated, because it is difficult for your enemy to attack you when you are in a compassionate mode.'Also: 'Fighting my brother is fighting myself; I am not going to punch myself. So, make a brother of your enemy.'And, one of my favourites: 'Just because someone wants to have a conflict doesn't mean you have to agree to enter into it. Put the phone down and walk away. Get your centre. Come back and say, "Sorry to have kept you waiting." This drives people nuts, but it's legal.'From what I can tell Dobson Sensei would not have considered such things to be simply a side-effect of studying Aikido. I believe he would have considered it aikido in practice. As O Sensei put it: ''Aiki is not a technique to fight with or defeat the enemy. It is the way to reconcile the world and make human beings one family." |
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Outdated is the right word. An example of a truly contemporary system, is combatives systems. Systems that deal with what and how criminals assault others. Criminals and their attacks get upgraded like other stuff. They work their stuff. They think about what they do and how to do it better, they improve upon it all the time. Their goal is to be successful and win too. Many martial arts are just that arts. They are not about change, I mean, do you do Aikido in a living room, or a bar setting, or something like that. Do you practice in a parking lot after it rains or during the rain, etc. Do you practice in your street clothes. When you do perform a technique your not surprised, you know what to expect. No, you practice in a place that is the most least likely place you will ever be attacked barefoot. That place has a soft even dry floor. Your not ever surprised, in a white Japanese pajamas, if someone attacks you. Overall, yea, out dated. To be fair when I say out dated, it doesn't mean MMA is any better with that stuff. |
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It's a measure of power used in technique rather than what kind of techniques are used. |
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Contemporary art...what do you want from a contemporary? How do you identify what is a contemporary art and what it is to be?
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Using martial arts to teach someone not to fight? This sounds like some romantasized thing smeone came up with. Like someone claiming to be a pacifist warrior. Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not tryng to bash Aikido it's my favorite martial art. I can't stand the UFC. I won't watch the fights and I can't stand all the T shirts hats stickers and UFC groupies. Guys talk about it and I go off and pick my nose somewhere. Taking an average Aikido student who attends 2 to 3 classes a week and comparing them to a UFC fighter who trains 6 days a week and is probably in the 1% of their class (assuming they beat out a lot of compitition to get where they are) is to me like comparing your average soldier with a Navy Seal. It's apples and oranges One comment I see surface often is that one of Aikido's great things is that it trains you against multiple opponents. I won't disagree, I'm certain saved my ass in a fight but the thing is if we turn around and assume another martial art is weaker because if it IE "They don't train UFC fighters against multiple opponents!" we, the Aikido community, end up looking like we're grasping at straws. Quote:
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If someone is good at Aikido for example, they may be able to end the fight before it really begins. :) |
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Modern systems like you describe are not about change either, they are just new, like Takenouchi Ryu was new 500 years ago. The point of older systems is not to create a system which is "If this happens, then do this" that's an impossibility. The point is to create someone that doesn't have an adrenalin rush and doesn't get suprised. An adrenalin rush is a sign of an untrained mind, you've not trained to associate being attacked or being surprised with relaxation. |
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I just read where an Aikido Sensei in Canada who weighs about 160 lbs, let a student try to pick him up while he was just standing. The student was I believe over 200 lbs and worked out, yet he was unable to life the 160 pound person. Or the three students pushing against the Jo O Sensi was holding while at the same time another student behind him trying to pull him back. All four of these students were unable to move O Sensei. There's more to Aikido than technique and physical strength. Energy and training to keep ones ego in control. From what I've seen of the UFC, ego isn't controlled...it's fed. |
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