Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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(He's doing a sort of thing often told not to do... in sword arts). |
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Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
Are there any pictures of Osensei actually training with (or at least holding) a real sword rather than a bokken? (Note: I mean more than just the ceremonial photos shown so far).
Carl |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
There's video of O-Sensei practicing with a "real" (metal) sword on the Aikido Journal DVDs. As I recall, he's showing techniques where uke is trying to prevent nage from drawing the sword.
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Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
My instructor recommends that the jo be as long as the distance between the floor and one's solar plexus. It makes sense to me that one's weapon be adapted to their height.
As for the sword, how long have you been training? It's a very important question. You might want to use a bokken for a few months before trying a live blade. Maybe two years ago, I started a thread, it was called "Need help to choose a katana", or something like that. I received a lot of extremely precious advice. Read it if you manage to find it. Now, from my experience, I suggest that you try to draw a sword before buying it. Some are for displaying only. Still, I tried my chance and ordered one on amazon.com, the "Classic Crane Tsuba Handmade Samurai Katana Sword". It has some flaws, but I can draw it without any problem, and I can train with it. And it's cheap. I just avoid trying to actually cutting something with it, as I have been advised. Ask Sensei if you are ready to train with a sharp blade. I shall resurrect my old tread, as I have some updates to share with all those who contributed with their advice. If I can find the time to look for it.:) |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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Carl |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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Regards Carl |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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I would suggest that O Sensei would hold the real sword /bokken in the same manner. Check out some Batto ho stuff on Youtube.[not O Sensei ]Possibly Biran Online may have some clips. Hope you are well, Cheers, Joe. |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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Be a nice lad and tell our avid readers what YOU see. I must need a new pair of glasses or I have missed something somewhere. Cheers, Joe. |
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Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
Yep...many sword arts have unique nuances in how they hold the sword.
I do expect Osensei would hold a shinken or iaito in a very similar grip to how he has been photographed holding a bokken, though. |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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I had a look at Biran Online. I also have a friend who does the Chiba weapons and every once in a while we get someone who does batto-ho etc here. I once visited a Nishio - lineage school where I was specifically told to hold the bokken without the "wringing out" to accommodate the tsuba. In any case, it seems Osensei didn't teach aikido much with a live blade. I wonder if his opinion on how one has to be held might have influenced this (apart from the obvious reasons, like tanren uchi with a blade would be over-with really quickly). Carl |
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But I can't verify this. There where/are teacher who use live blades in context of their aikidô. Asai Katsuaki and Noro Masamichi are known for using shinken during practice. Christian Tissier used a iaito for the batto jutsu as far as I know. There is a video of this somewhere out there . |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
I found that when I train with a live blade, I am more careful with my technique. This is why I think that after a few months of training, one needs to try a live blade. Also, when I tried to draw a sword for the first time, I found that drawing the bokken from my belt did not prepare me for that.
This is why even though I cannot afford a good sword and have to settle for something cheap, I think that handling a real sword is necessary for mastering the art. Of course, if O Sensei had such a terrible experience, I would not blame him for hanging his real sword, I would probably do the same. |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
I have studied Kashima no Tachi with Inaba sensei for quite some time. He encourages practicing with a live blade as you need to work carefully. It also challenges you and requires a strong tanden. Working with an iaito can teach you bad habits - a shinken keeps you honest.
In terms of actual instruction I had only a few hours direct teaching, before working with my own shinken and taking the time to "get comfortable" with it and with practice (primarily battojutsu). That said, I had lots of training on tanden and working in fairly intensive way with bokken previously - it really helps. Note that Inaba sensei is big on safety. It's about judging when someone is ready to do it, but it doesn't take long to get them going subsequently. And they can learn a lot on their own (as long as they don't act stupidly!) |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
p.s. treat shinken with care - you don't want to end up like this guy:
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...PHOTOS-ON-P-2/ And if you are squeamish don't look at the attachments on page 2. |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
Ok... Here's my take:
The jo we use are proportional to your size, unlike the ones used in Jodo which have a standardized. Ours fit under the armpit when you have your arm stretched stright out to the side. Bokken... well, there are a lot of choices. To my mind most cheap bokken have handles that are too short for a proper grip. I buy my bokken at Kingfisher where I can get an 11" handle rather than the nine inch that most cheapos have. Unless you intend to have a real sword teacher, do not listen to the folks who are advising you to get a live blade... It's just like the statements in A Christmas Story... "You'll shoot your eye out kid". One miss on a draw and you can be minus a finger or two easily. Get proper instruction. I'd stay with a good practice blade. You usually have to get into the four hundred dollar range to have much choice about handle length and fittings. The really cheap ones are more dangerous than they are worth. Absolute minimum ioutlay would be $200 from Tozand or E-Bogu, some reputable place that doesn't sell crap. I had a student who didn;t listen on this and showed up with a $50 piec of garbage that I wouldn't even let him use in the dojo because it was to dangerous. Unless you are in a dojo which does a lot of weapons work, I doubt you'll need a metal blade anyway. My students do have them. I wanted them to know at least the basics of how to use a sword. Several have live balades and we do some cutting once in a while just to see how our technique is. But this isn;t standard for most Aikido dojos. That's my take on it. |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
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You are much better off spending money on a really good bokuto. Forget the metal sword and invest a very good quality bokuto that will stand up to training. If you have display issues, you can display the wooden bokuto and jo on a sword stand. That will impress most people as much as a metal sword. |
Re: Bokken, Jo, Sword?
Funny how we all talk about Bo, Jo and Sword but there is never a mention of the Tanto, and for sure the double tanto. While the B,J,and S are important, the Tanto is more practical for me so I am teaching my students double tanto, including defense against the B, J, and S. Interesting how they like it.
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I'd love to see pictures and hear descriptions of people's really good bokutos. Maybe I've been missing out? |
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