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-   -   Unusual feet movement in morotedori (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25562)

PuppyDoggie 07-31-2018 01:02 PM

Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
Hi,

I noticed a very unusual movement when watching a video of Yoko Okamoto Shihan during a morotedori attack (2 hands grabbing wrist). In my limited 3.5 years of (Aikikai) aikido experience, I have never seen anyone else place their feet like that. I tried it out in our dojo and it is surprisingly effective. Below is a link someone else posted of her teaching and demonstrating what I am talking about. Does anyone else do that? Is this "common"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVh6AFS9xc

asiawide 07-31-2018 06:23 PM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
Quote:

Justin Tom wrote: (Post 353657)
Hi,

I noticed a very unusual movement when watching a video of Yoko Okamoto Shihan during a morotedori attack (2 hands grabbing wrist). In my limited 3.5 years of (Aikikai) aikido experience, I have never seen anyone else place their feet like that. I tried it out in our dojo and it is surprisingly effective. Below is a link someone else posted of her teaching and demonstrating what I am talking about. Does anyone else do that? Is this "common"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVh6AFS9xc

Not common but foot walk doesn't matter much. It's just to create space and get uke pulled by moving body backward. So she can handle uke easily since she takes balance before applying techniques. Btw, she makes herself unbalanced and use the power that her body moves to regain the balance. It's effective but can be exploited since she makes herself unbalanced.

JJF 08-01-2018 12:46 AM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
Interesting. It looks to some extent like the irimi-tenkan og Nishios Sensei except He would do it from a more ai hanmi katatetori looking approach to have ukes balance continue forward and in a circular path. However from morotetori it is new to me. Main point must be to maintain the front towards uke and make sure kusushi happens from body movement and not from strength. This reflects on the interplay of atemi from right and left side with Tori. Worth exploring I think.

Here is an example of an omote version: https://youtu.be/XfheWg0WdVE

And in this you can see a lot of morotetori variations including some to an ura approach: https://youtu.be/MOdzF8mbi3Y

zivk 08-01-2018 06:28 AM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
It's interesting, thank you for sharing.
I'm familiar with this specific foot movement from a Jo kata taught by Hiroshi Tada sensei. It is called Wakayama 1952, because, as far as I know, Tada sensei has seen O-sensei perform this sequence of movements in this place and time. Check out the part that begins in 1:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obDNZag5aHQ

lbb 08-01-2018 11:06 AM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
IME that's not unusual. If you're standing face to face and you need to get behind someone, you have to make up that distance somehow.

phitruong 08-01-2018 12:21 PM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
assuming uke didn't grab and pull

tarik 08-01-2018 04:11 PM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
She gets away with that in the example because her partners are not asked to try and stop her during this movement. The footwork creates a large weakness in her structure, but the movement and vector is basically the same thing that I would do, just changing the order of the footwork to protect my own balance.

PuppyDoggie 08-03-2018 05:41 AM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 353663)
assuming uke didn't grab and pull

Quote:

Tarik Ghbeish wrote: (Post 353666)
She gets away with that in the example because her partners are not asked to try and stop her during this movement.

Yes, this was assumed, otherwise there'd be a tug of war.

Quote:

Tarik Ghbeish wrote: (Post 353666)
The footwork creates a large weakness in her structure

Quote:

Jaemin Yu wrote: (Post 353658)
Btw, she makes herself unbalanced and use the power that her body moves to regain the balance. It's effective but can be exploited since she makes herself unbalanced.

Never noticed the unbalanced part until you pointed that out. Tried it out again this week with our group and there is indeed a small but very significant moment of being unbalanced in the initial movement, especially if the back heel does not touch the ground.

Quote:

Jørgen Jakob Friis wrote: (Post 353659)
Main point must be to maintain the front towards uke and make sure kusushi happens from body movement and not from strength.

Yes, I believe this was the purpose as well; it's just strange to me that the movement was so direct in this particular example.

Quote:

Ziv Klausner wrote: (Post 353660)
I'm familiar with this specific foot movement from a Jo kata taught by Hiroshi Tada sensei. It is called Wakayama 1952, because, as far as I know, Tada sensei has seen O-sensei perform this sequence of movements in this place and time. Check out the part that begins in 1:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obDNZag5aHQ

Cool! I never knew it'd show up in Jo work.

Quote:

Jørgen Jakob Friis wrote: (Post 353659)
Here is an example of an omote version: https://youtu.be/XfheWg0WdVE

Slightly off-topic but I really really like that kokyunage! I'm going to try and learn to feel for that movement next.

Thanks for sharing your observations and insight everyone!

dps 08-03-2018 09:23 AM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
With a dynamic attack from uke at a realistic speed the "small significant moment" becomes insignificant.

dps

ewolput 09-07-2018 10:24 AM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
In Tomiki Aikido, this kind of footwork is used to perform sumi otoshi throw. It is used during "competition" randori (a free play with 100% resistance and counter attacks). It takes time to become skilfull.
Of course the concept of competition is not accepted by some practitioners although it has many possitive point for your development.

Eddy

Clare Din 09-13-2018 09:30 PM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
Quote:

Justin Tom wrote: (Post 353657)
Hi,

I noticed a very unusual movement when watching a video of Yoko Okamoto Shihan during a morotedori attack (2 hands grabbing wrist). In my limited 3.5 years of (Aikikai) aikido experience, I have never seen anyone else place their feet like that. I tried it out in our dojo and it is surprisingly effective. Below is a link someone else posted of her teaching and demonstrating what I am talking about. Does anyone else do that? Is this "common"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVh6AFS9xc

Watch Osawa teach in a seminar. He emphasizes footwork as well that is very similar to this. I think Yoko has optimized her foot movement to her body so we have to find the proper foot movement for our bodies.

mathewjgano 09-23-2018 03:13 PM

Re: Unusual feet movement in morotedori
 
Quote:

Justin Tom wrote: (Post 353657)
Hi,

I noticed a very unusual movement when watching a video of Yoko Okamoto Shihan during a morotedori attack (2 hands grabbing wrist). In my limited 3.5 years of (Aikikai) aikido experience, I have never seen anyone else place their feet like that. I tried it out in our dojo and it is surprisingly effective. Below is a link someone else posted of her teaching and demonstrating what I am talking about. Does anyone else do that? Is this "common"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyVh6AFS9xc

I can't say what is usual because that varies from place to place, but it looks very similar to the kind of footwork I'm taught. Just to be clear though, how would you describe the footwork you're speaking about?


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