Discuss the article, "Did Morihei Ueshiba Invent Aikido?" by Peter Boylan here.
Article URL: http://www.aikiweb.com/general/boylan1.html |
Nothing under the sun is new....right?
-Dean :triangle: :circle: :square: |
If you take it from this point of view, yes, Peter is right! Osensei did not invent Aikido, Kano did not invent Judo, Funakoshi did not invent Karate. If you want to push this concept further, Jesus Christ did not invent Christianity because all the concepts existed befor in other eastern religions. Buddha did not invent Buddhism since in china Taoists had already discovered his principles many hunderd years before.... etc.
Isn't it much simpler to say, Ueshiba is the father of modern aikido as we know it today? |
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Best, |
Actually, I'd say that Kisshomaru Ueshiba, Gozo Shioda, Kenji Tomiki and Koichi Tohei are responsible for aikdio as we know it today. Ueshiba M. wasn't known for teaching things. He did something, and it was your job to figure it out. His students organized and codified the art, giving us the 4 very distinct branches of Aikido that most people know of: Aikikai, Yoshinkai, Shodokan, and Ki No Kenkyukai. These are really the creations of the first generation, not of the founder.
Peter Boylan |
Did Ueshiba invent Aikido?
If we look at the facts of who gets credit verses taking the ingredients and baking the cake, I guess for marketing K. Ueshiba, the son, should get credit, by the standards of the business world? Right?
This is the first post that actually touches on the subject of Aikido the practice, not the invention of the word Aikido, not entirely being the invention of O'Sensei? But, like a chef who cooks the same meal, cake, or recipe better than anyone else, should that constitute being crowned the inventor, or the creator, or merely the best there was at that particular time with the clearest vision? Actually, Christ did not invent Christianity, he merely pointed the way to become closer to God, as did many other religious figures ... within the knowledge and understanding of moral and social values of the day? What the followers did with what they were taught or enhanced to learn bring it to the masses, then it became those religions. In that context, Morehei Ueshiba became the icon of Aikido much like the corporate businessmen who found international company's? He did encourage student to go abroad, didn't he? Yeah, even Ginchin Funakoshi talks about the history of Karate being very old, not his invention, but the clarification of the word 'Kara' being changed from the meaning of China to 'open' when introduced to Japan as Open-hand. That has to do with ethnic friction between China and Japan over centurys of invasion/warfare. In this, less godly manifestation, our MA Icons/ religious Icons become human beings who show skill and determination to provide for their family, enhance the public welfare, and generally try to make the world a better place. If that means taking the ingredients of what exists today, mixing them into something slightly different from what has come before with a new name, then that could be an invention, but I wouldn't forget to find its history? History explains a lot of the hardships people try to overcome with their efforts .... some of them being the efforts and teachings hundreds, or a thousand years old ... baked into a better tasting cake? Marketing sells the product, BABY! That and throwing people across the room ... |
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Not to discount the contributions of any of the people above, but IMO there's a large difference between what M. Ueshiba did and what they did. Eliminate any one of them and Aikido (while it would be different) would still be around. Eliminate M. Ueshiba and Aikido wouldn't exist at all. As to the "the elements already existed" argument, I don't agree with that one either. Glass, wire, and electricity were already in existance, but we still say that Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb. By your line of reasoning it would be impossible for anyone ever to create anything, because the elements are always in existance previously. Now, I suppose that you could argue that (some people do), but it seems to me to fly in the face of the normal usage of the word "create" or "invent". Best, Chris |
I have had the chance last weekend to review my old Daitoryu and Aikijujitsu videos. I have to admit that sometimes when we read the posts on this forum, our thoughts become sometimes confused and we're not sure anymore if our knowledge is correct or not, and we start doubting.
Fortunately, after having seen the videos, I am very relieved to reach the very obvious conclusion that M. Ueshiba did actually "create" Aikido. Eventhough several throws and armlocks do look somehow similar in their conclusion, but also do many techniques that I see in WWF. Did WWF evolve from Daitoryu too? Now seriously, if you're not able to see the huge gap between Aikido and its predecessors, and the genius of M. Ueshiba, then there is no need to discuss this matter further ;) Cheers, Edward |
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I have to disagree. Technically the gap between Daito-ryu and Aikido is not that great. Probably not great enough, IMO, to say that M. Ueshiba "created" the technical side of the art. OTOH, I think that M. Ueshiba had a conception of a purpose and philosophy of training that very clearly delineates it from Daito-ryu. Best, Chris |
Actually, one of the videos I have seen is a demonstration in Japan commemorating some anniversary (sorry my memory about dates really sucks!) of Daitoryu. I think the demonstration possibly took place in 1986 (or 96?), I can verify that later. The thing is many Japanese arts were invited to demonstrate including the Hombu Dojo (both Aikikai and Yoshinkan). Aikikai was represented by Osawa Sensei (Junior), that time he was 6 dan.
His demonstration was simply brilliant! And clearly in a class of its own compared to the stiff and linear styles of the different Daitoryu schools present at the event. This is in no way criticising these arts, but simply saying that Aikido was on a different level. I do agree that Aikido uses basically the same techniques as its predecessors (obviously much less in number) but the way the attacks are intercepted and dealt with before reaching the final conclusion of the technique with a pin or throw, together with the dynamism of the attacks and the flow and grace of the whole thing, this is what makes Aikido unique. Or maybe I'm just blinded by my bias for Aikido :) Cheers, Edward |
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Best, Chris |
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A year or so before Edison patented his invention it had already been patented and commercially exploited by Sir Joseph Swan. Swan and Edison hadn't been aware of each others' work. There was a legal battle (though I dont know who was suing whom), and in the end Edison took Swan on as a business partner. Together they founded the enormously successfull Edison-Swan company. Neither man was the first to actually make a light bulb though, by almost a century. They were both building on work done by lots of earlier engineers. (Humphrey Davy demonstrated a light bulb of sorts in 1902, almost 80 years before Swan and Edison's patents.) I did a little Google search and found a page about the invention of the light bulb with a final paragraph which might be relevant to a debate about whether Ueshiba M. was really the 'inventor' of Aikido after all though: "There is no single inventor of any great technology. Ideas rise out of a whole community. But people who can put full-blown systems together are rare. And in that sense, maybe it is fair to say that Edison invented the light bulb, after all." regards Sean x |
huh...
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:D |
Sorry, I tried, but I couldn't help myself. :p It was too obvious and funny. :D
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(I did of course mean 1802, Swan patented his light bulb in 1879 and Edison patented his in 1880) Sean x |
Understanding Aikido
During the last year of Morihei Ueshiba's life, Isao Takahashi Sensei was invited to join the founder for two weeks at Iwami. When he got back, he spoke about a moment he had with O Sensei.
They were walking down a road, when O Sensei suddenly turned to him and said, "I'm finally beginning to understand what this Aikido thing is.". For O Sensei, Aikido was something that was already there. Like the sky, earth or ocean, it was there before he was born and would exist long after he was gone. Aikido was something that happened when O Sensei practiced. He didn't consciously invent or plan it. He would also have to try and understand Aikido, just like the rest of us. |
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Bronson |
Aiki Spirit
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Both the founder and his teacher, Sogaku Takeda, realized that what he was doing was sufficiently different from Aiki-jitsu that it needed a different name. Among these other possible names were Aiki Budo and Aiki No Michi, both emphasizing Aiki and a way of life. Some people portray the founder like he was some highly intelligent Martial Arts Engineer, who came up with a break-through design in the Combat Arts. But that is just a reflection of their own perspective of a westernized, modern view. Actually the founder was a throwback, someone with the psychological make-up of Ancient Japan. This was reflected in his writings and language. Modern Japanese had a difficult/impossble time understanding him, since he wasn't really from their time. Like Peter Boylan remarked, it would be up to his students to present Aikido to the modern world. |
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As to "no one displayed the Aiki Spirit as strongly as Morihea Ueshiba", well, there are plenty of people that would argue that point. He's certainly the most well known. At this point who was strongest in aiki is sort of a moot point, since there's no real way to tell for sure. Quote:
Best, Chris |
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Why do you think Takeda was more actively involved? |
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Best, Chris |
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BTW can you buy the Japanese version of Tohei's book? The English version is only sold to KS members so far. If you can, what is the price? I thought you might know since you're in Japan. Quote:
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Best, Chris |
It seems to me that Ueshiba invented aikiDO from the preexisting aikiWAZA. He established it as a way instead of just empty technique.
Drew |
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1) What's "empty" about Daito-ryu? 2) Have you studied enough Daito-ryu to have any idea whether it's "empty" or not? Best, Chris |
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