Re: Future of Aikido
Hello again, Mary and Ron,
Thank you for your welcome clarification. I find that it is often easy to misinterpret words, and perhaps even easier to misinterpret, or inaccurately anticipate intent. Rest assured, your commitments and your contributions do count! in oneness, |
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I like that. It's very apples to apples, oranges to oranges. Weather permitting Mary and I are planning to attend the Friday night Aiki and Connection class at your seminar in Bedford Hills. It's the only class we'll be able to attend due to teaching commitments Saturday and Sunday. We are looking forward to meeting you. Best, Ron |
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Revenue cannot be completely discounted as it is important as long as you need a roof and lights otherwise everyone loses out. Quote:
The past present and future all play a part: Past: Let's not reinvent the wheel, or more accurately; let's not try all the failed attempts at wheels that came before Present: When teaching/training let's be focused on the "now" Future: Plan for the future; who will teach when I cannot? What will they be teaching and will they understand to the degree that they can pass it on again? Do I know everything?(!) It is ok to be on the path and only look at the step you're taking but I think that without an idea of where you're heading you might find that you aren't where you expected to be when you get there. Quote:
I think that there is no reason we shouldn't be able to develop a means of discussing what is "good" and "bad" even though this may in fact not gel with everyone's perspective. Just because you or I believe something is good or bad whilst another believes it not to be so is no reason not to discuss; it may mean that looking for people who are trying for the same specific goals to have such discussions with will be more fruitful as we all know there will be groups of people who will simply disagree on points though as long as people accept this there is no harm is evaluation/discussion. There is a big difference between whining about something, rationally evaluating and learning from, closing ones eyes and ears to the past and the destination ahead, etc... I'm not suggesting that anyone fits into such pigeon holed behaviour and perhaps there may be a degree of misunderstanding on my part in the intent of the OP; the only umbrage I take is the implication (possibly incorrectly) that being concerned about the future and mindful of the past equates whining and lack of centre. |
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ps. i didn't mention Ledyard sensei because i have elected him to be my guidance counselor. :) |
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NEVER give up that perspective! I truly believe that it prevents institutional myopia from narrowing our understandings within our art. I openly tell people that Stanley Pranin is a true hero in having provided invaluable opportunities to see the depth of knowledge and experience that is out there and how much it can directly benefit us in the deepened understanding of our art. It was suffering from institutional myopia until Stanley blew through the "doors created by a narrow vision." Regards, marc abrams |
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dps |
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Are you intentionally misusing my statement? I was referring directly to his willingness to experience exemplary martial artists OUTSIDE of Aikido in order to deepen his understanding of Aikido. It is also important to note that both Saotome Sensei and Ikeda Sensei do that as well. They are outstanding examples of open-mindedness ( and I am not in the ASU). Marc Abrams |
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dps |
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Is this correct? Why not experience more of the different styles of what is inside Aikido as well? dps |
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dps |
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So David follow that up. What does it say that he has discovered something quite substantial...to...his aikido....outside of aikido? Some people in this thread, have said elsewhere: *That everything they need is already in Aikido *That their teacher has IT (contextually when discussing the IP/aiki debate) Yet the same people who have said that -have not trained with the people being discussed to feel and experience aiki-outside of their art. What does it say, when those same people read year after year their peers and seniors in the art arriving at the same conclusion. That the study of IP/aiki has substantially changed their Aikido for the better, and the validity of that is denied.. Experience is an interesting thing and agenda is ugly and contrary to good will. Slowly and steadily more people with good will are coming together (in defiance of some people who have agenda written all over them...on both sides of this issue)..and they are arriving at conclusions that benefit the art of Aikido. I don't know why it has to be confrontational, but apparently when people feel so passionate about a hobby, these things happen. I am going to continue to strive to be better at listening and being reasonable in light of some of the resistance I face on line, since it always seems to end in a shared common interest I keep arriving at in person. IP/aiki is the cornerstone of what made the Asian arts legendary. It is a shared pedagogy for all of us who pursue these arts. It is my hope that this new movement doesn't get absorbed...in itself... into factionalism as some are now trying to do. Nor does it get absorbed into even more factionalism within the arts. Remember that the aikido teachers are encountering something that they cannot do. I know that as I go out and meet so many teachers in an amazing array of arts, that my eyes have been opened to some interesting things as well. This collaborative effort has been positive and is growing and I for one am striving to keep it that way, (as Ellis first mentioned in his book) by extending an open hand. Cheers Dan, . |
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Things evolve and while some (many?) may like the direction it has taken, some may prefer to instead go back to what the old guy was doing before things became quite so popular... I personally have no problem with Aikido going in all sorts of directions. I think that's fine, inevitable and natural. The question for each of us is where *you* want to go with it. For me it is looking back to understand where it came from so I can take it where it will naturally go *for me*. I don't get the wailing and gnashing of teeth on this issue. Some are perfectly content to do what they're doing and what they've always done. That's cool. Others want other things. That's cool too. Me, I'm constantly looking around trying to find things to help me better understand where I came from and what I'm doing. That is, I think, the biggest compliment I can pay to my teachers -- to sincerely try my best to understand what they were taught and are teaching me. Trying to get better. And we all do it our own ways. |
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Like your post. You asked me some questions so I'll try to answer. Why do I do Aikido? Cos I love it and find it's good for self developement and to help others. That's the simplicity for me. What do I use as a yardstick? I have many yardsticks but the most important one for me is how are the students doing. Are they learning the principles? Improving their application of them in their practice? Applying those same principles to the different areas of their life to good effect? Bottom line are they winning students? If so the garden is rosy and I give thanks to the past and have confidence in the future. I look at it this way, a teacher has a product and his or her product is winning, happy students. So you could say my yardstick is in present time, in review and for extra information I study the past, especially the words of O'Sensei and his allocated teachers. Having said that I also include the wisdom of others from all fields. Future for me is simply a matter of organizing in the present and when the present isn't going so well the future looks bleak. That could make a person worry and blame and lead to saying others must worry and blame but I see that as counter productive. If your not happy and the future looks bleak then it's time to review. The answer lies where you are and the simplicity is teaching and winning students. In my experience if your own scene is good and you then are shown that the scene generally elsewhere is not good then you will be surprised. On the other hand I find that if your own scene is not good and then you are shown that the scene elsewhere is also not good then you will be worried, annoyed, looking to blame etc. Finally in response to something else you said. My personal belief is that if you want to improve yourself you must learn how to be and act selflessly. Sounds strange maybe but not to me. Regards. G. |
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No doubt about it, Matt. You see, I don't have a problem with thinking of words as having a history, evolution and flexible meaning. In other words, even *if* aikido has evolved in such a way that what most practice today is quite different from what was being done by O-sensei, that's fine with me as well. It *did* change. Tohei had a major hand in that. Then it really changed quite extensively with the Kisshomaru's taking over. It became incredibly popular in a way I'm sure O-sensei would never have imagined.
So what it is today in various places may in fact be the perfect thing for many, providing exactly what the students want out of the art. But many of those changes may not be what everyone wants. Some may want to go back to a different time. Or a different aikido. The point for me is that I've heard people ask "what is aikido *really*?" as if there's an answer to that question. To me the question makes no sense given the broad acceptance and multiple directions it took, heck, well before O-sensei passed away. Some of the changes in some places may be wonderful for some. Those very same things may in fact be the absolute worst for others. Just the nature of evolution of this type. It's greatest strength is the widespread popularity. It's greatest weakness is the widespread popularity. It just depends on what you want. Nothing will be lost by those folk looking back because there will always be those who are quite happy now, and rightfully so for them. I honestly don't see why people need to worry about what others are looking for. My concern is for what I'm pursuing. Y'all do whatever you want... :) |
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Well its obvious that aikido means many different things to many different people. I for one like what Tamura Sensei said about ‘not trying to sell it' to paraphrase. Each person has to be content with what they are doing. As an instructor what you are doing may or may not attract some sort of following but either way the individual has to make a personal choice.
I've been fortunate to feel an Endo, Ikeda, Nadeau, Sugawara, and others from within aikido as well as practitioners from outside of aikido. I have at this moment a very clear idea of where I'd like my practice to go so thankfully I have an instructor from within aikido who not only has a practice that inspires me but has always encouraged me to challenge myself. So with regards to the future of aikido, yes I share some of the same concerns as others regarding quality but I also realize that you can only control yourself. |
Re: Future of Aikido
Hello,
I felt I had to go outside of aikido to get what I want out of my training. I have trained with Toby Threadgill's students for a while and visit Toby every so often. The IS training I am doing within TSYR and the jujitsu principles that I plug into my aikido does not change the outer appearance of my aikido that much. It just makes it more efficient. I also try to do the TSYR kata because it is really cool and it gives me something that aikido does not. I see nothing wrong with going outside of aikido to get other things that aikido does not teach. From what I understand Koryu did it all the time because they need to know what the other guy was doing so they could counter it. Best, Eric |
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aikido - the way of harmony with ki, I guess that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. If you feel you are achieving that in your practice, then you are doing aikido, your own form of aikido, but aikido nonetheless. Plenty of people may point and say 'you are not doing the real aikido' or you are not doing O Sensei's aikido, or 'you are not doing the aikido that I do'. Whether your aikido is 'martially effective' is a whole other ball game, which can be debated ad nauseum. Who is to define what aikido is apart from the teachers who claim to be teaching it. If you come to me I will teach you 'my' aikido as I understand it, and I'll teach you in much the same way as I was taught by my own teacher. I'll also define it in terms of how it makes sense to me. I think Keith is right, aikido is widely popular and is practiced in many different ways. I'm not sure if O Sensei was alive today, what he would think, but I would like to think he would see that his desire for aikido to be for everyone, was making some progress. He might raise an eyebrow as to some of the more 'out there' practices, but at least it is global and being enjoyed by many. It is up to the individual teachers to try to hone their own skills, to be the best that they can be, to go in search if they feel what they are doing is lacking in some way. Because if they don't, they are being lazy and complacent and their students in the end will suffer. The future of aikido is in the hands of the teachers who are alive today, not those whose legacy we draw on from the past. regards Mark |
Re: Future of Aikido
Consipracy time. Since this thread is taken a different turn...
I think the undercurrent of the exploration of aikido outside aikido is one of fear. What happens to our ethos when a karate guy can better explain "aiki"? Or a kung fu guy that can better explain the role of dominant and recessive pressure? or the Systema guy that can better explain relaxation? Voiced or not, I think we all have a bit of trepidation, if not concern, that these things may be true. Trouble is, these scenarios are becoming more common - these people are getting better and pushing aikido into the sidelines. We have a great opportunity to recover and learn from these people. The future of aikido is similar. We see more, better, people who are challenging the aikido people. Our principles are being challenged and quite frankly, many of us are not prepared to handle those people. Our principles are faltering under pressure (i.e. they are not working). But how many principles do we have? How many different interpretations do we have? Heck, we cannot even agree on the definition of "ki". What do we do with these people who attack our principles or challenge our betterment? Marginalize. Ostracize. Ridicule. We need to understand the number of people better then us is increasing, while the number of us better then them is decreasing. We hide behind our ethics and our morals and our stance that aikido is not about fighting. But on some level isn't that just avoiding the fact a young athletic male who has some wrestling experience can hand us our lunch? We got some elitism going on and now the common folk are better at what we do than we are... We need to shape up. We need stewards of aikido who are interested in the future of aikido. Some of the instructors of whom I am aware are doing these things and their aikido (and their explanations of aikido principle) are improving. At one point in time other arts came to aikido seeking knowledge. You want my measuring stick? When was the last time a karate guy came into your dojo to learn better karate? Or a judo guy? It's been about 2 months since I asked a judo guy to make my aikido better... I am looking forward to the day a judo guy comes into my dojo asking to make his judo better. I am making some gross statements here to outline a point and I aim to cast a blanket statement across aikido but realize there are people doing these things... and it shows. |
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