Aikido: The learning of natural movement
I was over at a party a couple of days ago with a friend, and I saw something there that I will never forget. Me and this friend of mine (who has been going to Aikido latley) were conversating on the concept of ki. There were two small children in the room, a boy and a girl, both toddlers. The girl was being held and starting reaching for a cup, trying to communicate that she was thirsty. She couldn't talk, so she just kept reaching for the cup. I pointed this out to my friend and told him that the baby more than likely had the "unbendable arm" sensation going on at that very moment. This in turn led to more conversation about ki and it being natural in every human, and that baby's use ki very regularly,subconsciously, without making a conscious effort of it.
Anyway, the girl got a drink and started walking into the living room where we were. She tripped on the edge of carpet and fell down, but she just reached out her hands to absorb the impact. Anybody get what I'm trying to point out here? Here's the best part. After she got up she walked over to the couch and picked up someone's cell phone. She started jumping around just laughing and playing with the phone. The other child, the boy, ran over to her and tried to snatch the phone from her hand. What happened next is the closest thing to a real "no hands throw" that I have ever seen. As the boy reached for the phone she started to circle around him, tenkan if you will, and the boy of course kept on reaching farther to try and grab the phone from her. The next thing I see is the boy fall flat on the ground, while the little girl simple completed her spiral motion and happily resumed playing with the cell phone. I'm serious! This is exactly how it happened! Phew, I just had to get my thoughts out on that event! Feedback please! :ai: :ki: :do: |
Re: Aikido: The learning of natural movement
I did the same to my nephew once (toddler age)... and I got stare from his mum. I dare not do it again.
Boon. |
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That's a great story, now the questions is can you do it?
I have heard that many people said Osensei had a kind of childish nature. I mean this in the best possible way but there is definitely something to the idea of just moving in what ever way feels natural at the time. Its one of the dichotomies of kata, it can make you stuck in your ways (how many people do you know like this?) but the idea, IMO, is to train those natural automatic responses. Or are they to remember them??? |
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David Orange wrote a similar article and posted videos of his toddler doing Aiki movements. Did you read it?
I think this is the link: http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/...pic.php?t=8827 |
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IMO aikido is nature.
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I had an experience in a men's toilet once too, amazing really. :D Anyway, as I opened the exit door slowly, towards me, I was astonished to find a hand reaching for the door knob on the other side at the same speed as I opened the door. The other guy had this bewildered look on his face as the door handle just did not occupy the space he thought it did. His hand and body kept following this door knob right up until I had to catch him to prevent him going face first into the wall by my side, as he had completely lost his footing. I used the think that this kind of leading was "ki", but now I no longer think so.
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Re: Aikido: The learning of natural movement
I suppose, in terms of traditional chinese medicine, fundamentally we are born with a certain amount of ki and this either gets used up through drinking coffee and sex, or the ki flow gets interupted by poor posture, stress, poor learnt behaviour. Children do have this directed strength, and resilience, although much of it no-doubt also has to do with the different physiology (they have softer more flexible bones, lighter bodies, more body fat). Maybe we shouldn't be comparing children with adults, but comparing them with older animals of the same size. Compared to dogs of the same size, children are pretty weak. Compared to cats, they have poor reactions. Humans don't seem to have the natural defence ability animals do. Starting to waffle now, so will sign off,
Ian |
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P.S. also had this discussion of natural posture. Words like 'natural' have to be used carefully because they often used to refer to two different things. For example, your natural posture is the posture you have at the moment. However through training and being more concsious of your posture it can be improved to produce a 'natural' posture, in that it is the posture which you would have if you hadn't learnt bad behviours of standing/walking. So kata (if done properly)can produce naturalness - or more appropriately, be used to loose unnaturalness.
PPS. that other thread - would agree that aikido DOES NOT come from baby movements. Aikido movements are actually very basic however (can't do difficult motor function movements in a fight) with hands generally moving up and down in front of your body as you move around - thus it just seems like a child because their motor functions are basic. |
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woah :freaky: Thanks. |
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Thanks for posting that! And for Mikel, here are two video clips of my 18-month-old son doing aiki root movement. I teach that, when grabbed with a single-hand, same-side attack, you can turn either to the inside or the outside. The inside turn leads to gyaku-te seoi nage or shiho nage. The outside turn leads to sankyo (what Mochizuki Sensei called yuki chigae and Tomiki Sensei called kote mawashi). The root of the two techniques is just turning around in one direction or the other. In the first of these two clips, Ken spontaneously does the outside turn. The second clip opens when he has already made the inside turn and is moving toward gyaku-te seoi nage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyx8jv6TNN0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yxs0...elated&search= As I said in the article Roy referenced, I have observed aiki movement in a number of children. I'm always surprised that anyone thinks aiki isn't a natural thing. I feel like Ben Franklin saying that the static spark that shocks you when you touch a door knob is the same as the lightning that crashes from the sky. He almost killed himself demonstrating this idea with his kite in a thunderstorm. I think enough people have witnessed children doing beautiful aiki that there should be no more question about where aiki originates. To me, the only question is how to find that original aiki in ourselves and cultivate it to a more powerful level. Best wishes to all. David |
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I think the moral of the story is that Aikido works on people with toddlers' sense of coordination and martial ability...
(6) |
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best, R |
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Wow! It's so weird that other people have seen this too! I think we're on to something Davey boy! Hahaha, It makes me feel good inside to think about this kind of thing. Sorry, but thats's the only way I can describe it. |
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Mikel: That was no fluke or coincidence! That 6th Dan girl in your story goes to my dojo! :freaky:
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Okay at first it just looked like some Aiki-nutter rolling on the grass with his toddler (which I have have to say looks like fun) but i have to admit there is definitely something to it.
From a skeptical point of view i could just say that it is only because Dad is moving in a conditioned way that makes it look like there is real technique happening and that he is actually guiding his kid around...but that was a damn good sankyo. |
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It is true that kids move in a manner that is natural because they haven't yet had the experiences that build up layers of tension in thier minds and bodies. It's not surprising that they will manifest the movements we see in Aikido since these movements are considered fundamental movement patterns in the universe. I actually do not think that the body mechanics of Aikido or Aikijutsu are "natural" in the sense that if we can just relax they will come naturally to us. Training in "aiki" is the process of re-programming the body and the mind to believe that tension will not make one safe. Then there are very specific elements that combine in terms of how one joins ones mind and physical movement with that of an opponent. You do not have "aiki" automatically just because you have some kids moving in a relaxed and free fashion. |
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Why make it a dichotomy? It's efficient body mechanics applied in strategic intent. Babies have the efficient movement because, as George Ledyard says, "...kids move in a manner that is natural because they haven't yet had the experiences that build up layers of tension in thier minds and bodies." And they're not doing anything other than the simplest movements that support their intent. As I've said before, aiki is expressed when you try to divert a child from something he is interested in doing. And there is where the strategic intent comes in. He intends to do what he is doing and when obstructed by a much-larger person with much-greater strength, he instinctively moves to the position where his small size and power effectively evade and neutralize the larger size and power. Quote:
As to what separates aikido from the other arts, it's as I said above--moving to the position and in the structure that makes the most of one's smaller size and power to neutralize and overcome a larger size and greater power. It does not conflict with the greater power, but flows into the "ura" of whatever "omote" the attacker uses to express his power. Quote:
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Second, as I've said before, I've been to aikido dojos where the sempai were barking "fall down faster!" because that's the way they do it. You once asked, "Why go to such a place?" Now I recall that it was a seminar run by a highly respected aikikai shihan--S. Sensei. That's the way they teach it. Why shouldn't a baby get as much cooperation as a grown man? Quote:
Thanks for your response, however. David |
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One old Zen koan goes, "What is the shape of your original face?" or "What was your face before you saw a mirror?" To the child, the whole world is his mirror and when he sees you, as far as he knows, that is himself. So he does not need to join your movement. Like Ueshiba, he is already one with it. Best wishes, David |
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I'm with you on this one David.
Guess I'm going to have to check out some more Feldenkrais now |
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Thanks for starting this thread! Quote:
And that means you must first "get with" your own system. So if you see that aiki is natural to babies, and realize that that means it's natural to human beings, then your real aikido pratice should focus on finding the real nature of what your teacher shows you on the mat. As George Ledyard said, "...most folks doing Aikido [don't] really understand much of what constitutes "aiki"." And to me, this is because aikido has become a "brand name product" that can only be constituted with the "seven secret herbs and spices" in the recipe of the particular "brand" of aikido one happens to study. But I believe that the "real" aikido is literally a force of nature. Like Franklin's recognition that static electricity from a carpet is the same as lightning from a thunderhead, we need to see that aikido is not made on the mat by following a repetitious recipe, but that it is made person-to-person from the friction of human beings in relation to one another. So whatever you study on the mat, the real understanding comes in daily life, watching people interact, and interacting with them. And respecting the value of what a child can show you will give you the finer perceptions needed to take that to a deeper level than ever. Hope that makes sense. Best wishes. David |
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(On the other hand, very young infants naturally hold their breath and move without tension when placed underwater. They seem to "unlearn" this when learning to sit upright, i.e. -- to "fight" gravity, and then must (re-unlearn?, un-unlearn? ) learn to do it again as a complement to the skills of upright posture they have since acquired.) Aiki may be like swimming in this way -- re-learned innate movement that follows the flow of the medium at every point of contact with it (and this is the important point) -- even when moving partly counter to it. In one case, it is the medium of water, in another it is the medium of physical conflict. For most people, understanding this aspect of aiki is very hard. They lack a frame of reference in which to embrace conflict and non-conflict as coexisting in such a tightly dependent way. But understanding the related principle of movement in water is intuitively obvious -- for a swimmer who has gained the proper frame of reference. Once this principle is learned, with practice, aiki movement, like swimming, becomes more and more effortless, and more and more intuitive, until it is just as innate as walking or running. On the other hand, it is more than just the infants' innate skills in acting without tension, since by the time of adulthood a person has a rather great and useful foundation in resistive mechanics to build upon (and to exploit in others). None of that is lost, it is merely altered and built upon. Once this principle is learned deeply, you naturally find new ways to move (techniques) that operate on the same principle but are different in particular application. And further refinement and innovation is possible at every level of skill. |
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I partly agree with your thoughts Eric, and also David's, although my following analogy only touches the outskirts of what constitutes "ki" phenomena in a physical sense. Imagine one's body constantly buffetted by randomly-varying forces from each and every direction on each and every portion of our surface (let's leave out the soft parts like eyes, ear channels, nose, groin and so on for a start). In such an environment, it is entirely possible that many people will quickly pick up at a young age the "natural" way to let the body absorb such a force spectrum in the best possible way (i.e., to minimize injury and stress on individual parts), and also will build up requisite sinews, muscle and bone, and develop breathing and behaviour to enable existence in such a hostile environment. Learning how to move where one wishes to (to the best of one's ability), directly if one can, indirectly if not feasible with given conditions, is perhaps analogous to the idea of moving from center, with ki, etc. Negating another person's power has no analogue here, since the external forces have sources far beyond our power to negate. However, if the sources are close-by and human, they will be affected by our action/reaction, and can be negated (or turned against the them) because the human is also only using another source (ground and/or gravity) to create a force on us.
In the absence of such an environment, clearly most people never learn such a mode of movement, nor develop their bodies for it. Exercises for this development exist, as Mike Sigman, Robert John, Dan Harding and others have in several cases explicity described, and their practice is gruelling, exactly because the hostile environment I described above (or a vastly more complex superset thereof) is being mentally duplicated and simulated. |
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I want to thank all of you for teaching me so much about the different points of view on this topic I happened to stumble upon. I didn't even think I would be taken seriously, haha.
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