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ian 05-09-2001 08:38 AM

Choosing techniques
 
I realise that some techniques are better than others in different situations e.g. shiho-nage is better if ukes elbow is dropped low whereas ikkyo is useful if ukes elbow is raised.

What I want to know is:
(i) are there any formal explaination of this (e.g. in books?)
(ii)Is there any way to define an aspect of an attack which suits it to a specific technique?
(iii) how do you lot train to respond to a specific aspect of an attack with a certain technqiue*

i.e. usually training is formal, and we do one technique, but surely we should be using the most suitable technique - how do we train to determine this? Randori?

Ian

Matt Banks 05-09-2001 12:40 PM

Re: Choosing techniques
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ian
I realise that some techniques are better than others in different situations e.g. shiho-nage is better if ukes elbow is dropped low whereas ikkyo is useful if ukes elbow is raised.

What I want to know is:
(i) are there any formal explaination of this (e.g. in books?)
(ii)Is there any way to define an aspect of an attack which suits it to a specific technique?
(iii) how do you lot train to respond to a specific aspect of an attack with a certain technqiue*

i.e. usually training is formal, and we do one technique, but surely we should be using the most suitable technique - how do we train to determine this? Randori?

Ian


Adapting to any attack can be done in many ways.

In my opinion no one tecnique favours any attack. Any aikido tecnique can be performed from any attack i.e. hiji ate can be performed from a punch, side/front strike, short jab and kicks etc etc. This is true of all tecniques. If people on this forum dont belive this then train with the top instructors in your area. I know for a fact that the sensei's I train under can adapt any tecnique to any attack. In my opinion this is why I feel aikido to be so effective. As the foot work is so dynamic we can adapt to anything, all be it a headbut or gouge to the eyes its still just energy to be delt with.

One thing we do to train for this, is chose a tecnique i.e. shihonage. We all line up in a corner and uke attacks tory with a certain attack. Then the attack is changed and the same tecnique must be performed and adapted. Then eventually as you get up towards brown/black belt multiple uke's attack with varying attacks, and the person will call out the tecnique he wants you to perform, until eventually your range of tecniques is massive.

I remember one person on the forum, was asking why we dont train for diffrent sorts of punches i.e front cross and jab. The person probably didnt understand that in aikido we can adapt to any attack.

If you ever get the chance watch the 1989 tokyo police demonstating video where you see Soke Gozo Shioda taking on 6 other uke's all coming in with varying attacks with extreme ferocity. Throughout Shioda 'shows off' by just using a shoulder barge with centred hip to dispatch the uke as they attacked. Its quite amazing.


Matt Banks

CraigJamieson 05-09-2001 01:41 PM

police video
 
Hey. The video Matt mentioned, where can i get my hands on a copy?? It sounds really cool, and as i read the book about the poilce course - Angry White Pyjamas by Robert Twigger - and thoroughly enjoyed it, i was wonderin where i could get a copy in the UK (of the video).Thanks to anyone who helps.
Craig

darin 05-09-2001 08:40 PM

Re: Choosing techniques
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ian
I realise that some techniques are better than others in different situations e.g. shiho-nage is better if ukes elbow is dropped low whereas ikkyo is useful if ukes elbow is raised.

What I want to know is:
(i) are there any formal explaination of this (e.g. in books?)
(ii)Is there any way to define an aspect of an attack which suits it to a specific technique?
(iii) how do you lot train to respond to a specific aspect of an attack with a certain technqiue*

i.e. usually training is formal, and we do one technique, but surely we should be using the most suitable technique - how do we train to determine this? Randori?

Ian

Shihonage can also be done with uke's elbow high. By extending his elbow around shoulder height you can apply pressure to the joint (kind of gyaku ippon). This helps keep uke off balance. Also having his elbow high protects your face from being hit. This variation is effective against larger opponents who have strong wrists.

I agree with your comment on ikkyo.

I don't think aikido defence is or should be specific but its important to have variations in a technique so you can deal with different kinds of attacks. For example the technique you use against a lunge punch may have to be done differently if you were to defend against a reverse punch. Best way to train is to do the basics first. Once you have good idea of distance and timing then mix it up.

I don't believe there is such a thing as a suitable technique. All techniques are suitable. Its the result that matters. There is such a thing as a suitably performed technique though.




ian 05-10-2001 05:35 AM

Thanks for the replies (although I didn't mean using the same technique for different attack types - I was referring to more subtle aspects of ukes position).

The way many people respond to fighting situations (inc. myself) is pretty instinctive. If people really believe that every technique is equal in all attacks, why do we bother learning more than one technique (in some ways I think this is maybe why Ueshibas 'Budo' is quite concise without lists of lots of techniques).

When I first started aikido I had my favourite techniques (e.g. shiho-nage) whereas now this isn't so much the case - however during randori I will do specific techniques depending on the position of uke etc. Is this not the case with everyone else?

Ian

Hagen Seibert 05-10-2001 05:38 AM

Hi Ian,
I think there are different nuances in different techniques, so in any situation there is one technique fitting better than others.

My advice for training this would be a sort of restricted randori: One attack and a few techniques which are close together.
E.g. attack is shomen-uchi, then doing only ikkyo-ura, irimi-nage and kote-gaeshi. Those three techniques are very close in the beginning of the movement, you are stepping off the line and turn into uke┤s back side. By doint the techniques you can discover the nuances, the little diffrences.
And then of course many variations of the choice of techniques.

Hagen Seibert 05-10-2001 05:55 AM

I must remark that I do not really like this philosophy of "any technique goes for any attack".

If this was the case, it would be sufficcient to learn only one technique (as is goes for everything ), instead of bothering to learn many different.
Of course you can drag your uke into the technique you want, but will it be smooth and fluent?
Of course you can add some preraratory movements to get uke into throwing position, but will the thechnique then still be sensible? ( If the time of leading uke is too long a natural uke will drop out sometime )
And finally - if you like it or not - there are definitely techniques which do not work on some specific attack !

andrew 05-10-2001 06:21 AM

Re: Choosing techniques
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ian
What I want to know is:
(i) are there any formal explaination of this (e.g. in books?)
(ii)Is there any way to define an aspect of an attack which suits it to a specific technique?
(iii) how do you lot train to respond to a specific aspect of an attack with a certain technqiue*

This is an ODD question, or at least seems so to me.
(i) Your initial setup is important- surely that's obvious? Certain techniques don't lend themselves to certain situations readily because you need to alter the situation to perform the technique. If somebody keeps their arms by their sides (for an ott example), why the hell would you try ikkyo, say?
(ii) If the opening an attack leaves gives you a suitable opportunity for a technique, then that technique is suited. For another terrible example, if a man with his arms taped to his sides tries to headbutt you, ikkyo just won't be an option.
(iii) You can group attacks together. Some attacks have a vertical feel, and you might generally enter in the identical manner to shomenuchi response. Some are more simular to Yokomenuchi. What you'll notice (I did after watching a few videos fro this guy- http://www.aikido-jaffraji.com/ French language site,btw.) after a while is that there's not actually much left to do if you enter well.

Here's what he groups with shomenuchi, for instance:
a´hanmi katate dori, katate ryote dori,
kata dori menuchi, muna dori,
jodan tsuki, mae geri.

Yokomenuchi:gyaku hanmi katate dori, ryote dori, sode dori, ryo sode dori, kata dori,
ryo kata dori, chudan tsuki.

Having watched the shomenuchi tape I can tell you that time and again he uses the same small number of entries to deal with a number of simular attacks.

Personally, I think randori does nothing so well as improve kokyonage.
andrew


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