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david evans 03-10-2005 08:03 AM

I am not a samurai
 
I am not a samurai.

I live on the east coast of Australia, and am never far from the beach. I surf. I fish. I look at fauna. I earn decent money, and can afford three classes a week.

I do not practice aikido because it brings me closer to "God" (whatever).

Can't people just "do"?

Bridge 03-10-2005 08:22 AM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
What's this about?

Has someone been giving you grief?

George S. Ledyard 03-10-2005 08:54 AM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

David Evans wrote:
I am not a samurai.

I live on the east coast of Australia, and am never far from the beach. I surf. I fish. I look at fauna. I earn decent money, and can afford three classes a week.

I do not practice aikido because it brings me closer to "God" (whatever).

Can't people just "do"?

You can DO what you wish. You can Not DO what wish not to. You want to go with the flow, train your three times a week with no particular pressure for it to be anything, that's cool. You're supporting the dojo and getting some exercise... hanging with some nice folks. Great!

I don't see what the problem is unless you are having issues with the fact that there are a lot of folks who are alot more serious about this than you are. I mean. you are surfing right? You can be a recreational surfer and be quite happy. But if you hang around a group of folks for whom surfing is somethig close to a religion, don't expect them to give you much validation. They are operating on another plane.

I play the guitar. I am pretty good but not professional grade. If I hung with a bunch of professionals I'd probably feel pretty inadequate all the time because I am simply not in their league. But I don't hang with the pros. I just play for myself and I'm happy.

Every activity you do can be done on multiple levels. There are people who have made an art out of activities which I consider almost worthless (video gaming). Heck, I can't even play Halo with my kids. I last about twenty seconds before I am wiped out. And there are adults out there who are SERIOUS about this stuff. I am a joke to them and I think they ought to get real lives...

Do your Aikido the way you wish to do your Aikido. You make a choice about what level of commitment you make. I can assure you that you will only get out of it what you put in. But that's fine. Just don't whine about the fact that there are other folks doing the art at a whole different level than you are, who consider their training to be central to their lives and who are aware of elements within the art which you will simply stay unaware of unless you choose to put more into it.

Do what makes you happy. Don't compare what you do with anyone else. Do Aikido, surf, etc. Just find something you can be passionate about, it improves your life immensely.

bkedelen 03-10-2005 11:49 AM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
That sounds just like a peacetime samurai to me.

mj 03-10-2005 12:10 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

George S. Ledyard wrote:
. Heck, I can't even play Halo with my kids. I last about twenty seconds before I am wiped out. And there are adults out there who are SERIOUS about this stuff. I am a joke to them and I think they ought to get real lives....

My son keeps threatening, I mean challenging, me to games of Halo 2. I refuse of course. I'm not ready to be hamered by him yet...thought I'd try to squeeze another year or so of patriarchal invinvibility in.

David sounds like you're pretty much here you want to be. :)

Enjoy.

bryce_montgomery 03-10-2005 12:14 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

David Evans wrote:
I am not a samurai.

I live on the east coast of Australia, and am never far from the beach. I surf. I fish. I look at fauna. I earn decent money, and can afford three classes a week.

I do not practice aikido because it brings me closer to "God" (whatever).

Can't people just "do"?


Neither am I...

Bryce

Mike Sigman 03-10-2005 12:31 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

David Evans wrote:
I do not practice aikido because it brings me closer to "God" (whatever).

Can't people just "do"?

Of course they can. That's why it's called Aiki "do". :p

Mike

aikido_dragon 03-10-2005 01:02 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
O Sensei himself says that just the physical act of "do"ing Aikido will lead you to Enlightenment.

MitchMZ 03-10-2005 01:33 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
My name is Mitch and I'm addicted to video games! But, Aikido, friends, and family come before video games. To me, games are no more than an interactive form of cinema or TV, and many people spend just as much time watching TV. The great thing about hobbies is, first and foremost, they bring people together!

thomas_dixon 03-10-2005 02:27 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
After watching something on FitTV about Aikido and hearing someone preach about how it relates (and was practiced by) to samurai, I would like to state that Aikido is not budo, and never was used by any samurai. ever. It was created about 64 years after the samurai were officially disbanded and outlawed. While it was created from Jujutsu which is a budo...it is not jujutsu and therefore isn't a budo.

senshincenter 03-10-2005 02:47 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Nick Dow wrote:
O Sensei himself says that just the physical act of "do"ing Aikido will lead you to Enlightenment.

I would be very interested in knowing where this quote comes from - thanks in advance.

david

senshincenter 03-10-2005 02:59 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Thomas Dixon wrote:
After watching something on FitTV about Aikido and hearing someone preach about how it relates (and was practiced by) to samurai, I would like to state that Aikido is not budo, and never was used by any samurai. ever. It was created about 64 years after the samurai were officially disbanded and outlawed. While it was created from Jujutsu which is a budo...it is not jujutsu and therefore isn't a budo.

I can see the interest one might have in distancing what Osensei did from what the Samurai did, like during the Sengoku period, but we don't have to re-write history and/or (re)manufacture cultural understandings in order to say, "Hey, we should not be warlike with our Aikido."

Thus, I would like to suggest that Aikido was not "created". Rather, it evolved, or is part of an on-going evolution of some trends in Japanese martial arts (now at an international level). When something is created, it makes it seems like it just came out of nothing or no place - and this is by far not the case when it comes to Aikido. When we use words like "creation," I also think we loosely imply that something is going to always be what it was at its birth. And, that too cannot be said about Aikido. If anything, your position, I would suggest, is part of one strain in the tradition that is attempting further mutation and/or evolution (depending upon how things work out a long time from now). Seeing Aikido as not Budo and/or as not related to Budo is definitely a mutation from what it was and still is for many practitioners. Time will tell which mutations wins out.

For now, if Aikido breaks from Budo, we will have to say that it hasn't happened yet in any kind of significant way - that that possibility exists, if it does exist, somewhere well down the road.

tony cameron 03-10-2005 03:18 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
hello i'm tony and i am a recovering video game addict...
(appologies for digressing the orig thread:)
ok, i Had to chime in on this one. i wonder how many hours/years of my life have been whiled away in front of various tv screens connected to the hottest video game consol du jour! the funny thing is that i dont have any regrets about it. while other kids were experimenting with drugs etc. i was immersed in my 16 bit fantasy world or playing dungeons & dragons (uh, yes i'm a nerd:) now i take the middle path asit were, moderation in all things i suppose. i am proud to state that i havent touched my x-box in 3 months (except for its function as a dvd player to watch Buddhist Fist over and over), but jade empire is going to be released soon and it will take some hurculean feat of will power not to rush right out and purchase a copy from my video game dealer!
now back to the thread...

Aikido, Qigong, and meditating are very spiritual activities for me and i sincerely believe that O Sensei is an enlightened Saint.

video gaming, sleeping, and eating i just "do."
oh hey, i forgot to add beer-jitsu to the spiritual list:)

best wishes to all,
tony

pezalinski 03-10-2005 03:49 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Thomas Dixon wrote:
While it was created from Jujutsu which is a budo...it is not jujutsu and therefore isn't a budo.

I would compare the above fallacy to the following:

"While ice was created from water which is wet, ice is not water, and therefore is not wet."

;)

raul rodrigo 03-10-2005 06:34 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Thomas Dixon wrote:
After watching something on FitTV about Aikido and hearing someone preach about how it relates (and was practiced by) to samurai, I would like to state that Aikido is not budo, and never was used by any samurai. ever. It was created about 64 years after the samurai were officially disbanded and outlawed. While it was created from Jujutsu which is a budo...it is not jujutsu and therefore isn't a budo.


I'd like to see you convince TK Chiba Shihan that aikido is not a budo. He and many other shihan say it is.

Greg Jennings 03-10-2005 07:50 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Thomas Dixon wrote:
After watching something on FitTV about Aikido and hearing someone preach about how it relates (and was practiced by) to samurai, I would like to state that Aikido is not budo, and never was used by any samurai. ever. It was created about 64 years after the samurai were officially disbanded and outlawed. While it was created from Jujutsu which is a budo...it is not jujutsu and therefore isn't a budo.

Above statement is like saying that a peach is not a fruit because it is not a pear.

Sincerely,

thomas_dixon 03-10-2005 08:12 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

David Valadez wrote:
I can see the interest one might have in distancing what Osensei did from what the Samurai did, like during the Sengoku period, but we don't have to re-write history and/or (re)manufacture cultural understandings in order to say, "Hey, we should not be warlike with our Aikido."

Thus, I would like to suggest that Aikido was not "created". Rather, it evolved, or is part of an on-going evolution of some trends in Japanese martial arts (now at an international level). When something is created, it makes it seems like it just came out of nothing or no place - and this is by far not the case when it comes to Aikido. When we use words like "creation," I also think we loosely imply that something is going to always be what it was at its birth. And, that too cannot be said about Aikido. If anything, your position, I would suggest, is part of one strain in the tradition that is attempting further mutation and/or evolution (depending upon how things work out a long time from now). Seeing Aikido as not Budo and/or as not related to Budo is definitely a mutation from what it was and still is for many practitioners. Time will tell which mutations wins out.

For now, if Aikido breaks from Budo, we will have to say that it hasn't happened yet in any kind of significant way - that that possibility exists, if it does exist, somewhere well down the road.

Quote:

Raul Rodrigo wrote:
I'd like to see you convince TK Chiba Shihan that aikido is not a budo. He and many other shihan say it is.

Logic: Budo's definition is as such:

Quote:

A code of manner and behavior for the samurai's life including the arts of combat with ethical and philosophical implications
Therefore if Aikido did not exist when the Samurai did, and and isn't meant for use on a battlefield to kill an enemy, it cannot be that definition of Budo.

Quote:

Peter Zalinski wrote:
I would compare the above fallacy to the following:

"While ice was created from water which is wet, ice is not water, and therefore is not wet."

;)

My reply to this fallacy:

"You are not your grandfather, for you did not exist when your grandfather did, and are different in appearance, as well as behavior. You also cannot be your grandfather, because while your grandfather is part of you, so is your grandmother, your mother and your father."


Of course that doesn't mean that Aikido didn't evolve from Budo...nor that it doesn't carry on the traditions of Budo...It just means, that Aikido wasn't used by samurai.

Chris Li 03-10-2005 08:21 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Thomas Dixon wrote:
Therefore if Aikido did not exist when the Samurai did, and and isn't meant for use on a battlefield to kill an enemy, it cannot be that definition of Budo.

You're thinking of bushido. Budo is a general Japanese term used to refer to martial arts, not "A code of manner and behavior for the samurai's life including the arts of combat with ethical and philosophical implications", and is commonly used by Japanese speakers to refer to things like Aikido and Judo (both of which came about after the samurai were disbanded). Further, I can direct you to quotes in Japanese by both Morihei and Kisshomaru Ueshiba stating flatly that Aikido is budo.

Best,

Chris

PeterR 03-10-2005 08:28 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
And of course Aikido is a form of jujutsu.

syraikidoka 03-10-2005 08:36 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
I am a ninja
http://www.realultimatepower.net/

This thread has just gone from serious to humor

raul rodrigo 03-10-2005 08:44 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote:
You're thinking of bushido. Budo is a general Japanese term used to refer to martial arts, not "A code of manner and behavior for the samurai's life including the arts of combat with ethical and philosophical implications", and is commonly used by Japanese speakers to refer to things like Aikido and Judo (both of which came about after the samurai were disbanded). Further, I can direct you to quotes in Japanese by both Morihei and Kisshomaru Ueshiba stating flatly that Aikido is budo.

Best,

Chris

Chris is right. Thomas is mixing up budo and bushido.

thomas_dixon 03-10-2005 08:48 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Raul Rodrigo wrote:
Chris is right. Thomas is mixing up budo and bushido.

No I'm not. I'm on the Budo/Bujutsu page...Bushido is the code of honor by which the samurai lived, fought and died.

thomas_dixon 03-10-2005 08:51 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
I'll settle for calling Aikido.. Gendai Budo...Deal?

Chuck.Gordon 03-10-2005 08:52 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Quote:

Thomas Dixon wrote:
Logic: Budo's definition is as such:

Who defined budo that way? They're wrong. And you can tell 'em I said so.

A good number of very senior aikido folks, very senior folks from other budo, and, IIRC, Usehiba Morihei himself (as well as his descendants) identify aikido as budo.

Aikido is a budo. Maybe your aikido isn't. Oh, and by the way, aikido is also a type of jujutsu. No, really. 'Tis.

Quote:

Budo...nor that it doesn't carry on the traditions of Budo...It just means, that Aikido wasn't used by samurai.
Neither were most budo. Especially the gendai budo, of which, aikido is one.

Your definitions seem to be skewed ... or maybe you're just trying to overlay a personal perspective on something that's aleady well-established, defined and understood by the budo community at large.

Chuck
Not a samurai, and doesn't play one on TV either.

senshincenter 03-10-2005 08:56 PM

Re: I am not a samurai
 
Where did you get that definition of Budo? I don't care if Tokugawa Ieyasu wrote it himself, it is flat out wrong because it pretends that Budo stopped evolving past the samurai as an economic/social class - when in fact it did. In fact, Budo's evolution was greatly influenced by the diminishing cultural impact of the warrior-class proper. So, please, share the source of your definition.

thanks,
dmv


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