Obama's Spending vs Obama's Spending Cuts
I guess its a step in the right direction.:)
What do you think? http://blog.heritage.org/2009/04/20/...s-in-pictures/ David |
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I think I've lost all respect for anyone who can be fooled by political stunts such as this.
It's bad enough that we let politicians speak out against earmarks and believe they care about spending levels (earmarks are only 1-3% of the budget, and are money that has already been included), but this is really a slap in the face. I have a question for those comfortable with answering it. Does anyone who voted for Obama still feel good about their vote? Please, explain why/why not. |
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Most of the complainers, I notice, didn't make a peep while Bush was trashing the economy and the constitution. And if I ever think I might have voted wrongly, I just think "President McCain" or "President Sarah Palin" and I know I did the right thing. David |
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1) The heritage foundation is a right-wing, conservative think tank. Gee, I wonder what kind of position they take.......
2) Which administration got us into this quagmire? Sorry, it was not the Obama administration, nor did the Democratic majority in the last two years of the Village Idiot's administration create this economic quagmire. 3) Both parties have prostituted themselves out to big businesses. Until lobbying, and private political donations are outlawed, no real change will occur. 4) I would vote for President Obama again. He has surrounded himself with very smart people who do not all support one ideology. So far, his administration is doing a FAR BETTER job than the previous administration in every area that I have looked at so far. 5) Earmarks only account for a very small percentage of the overall budget. Why don't we all just sit tight and give this administration a good year to before we begin to jump to conclusions. Unfortunately, the right-wing conservatives already concluded that this administration was a failure before President Obama took the oath of office! I NEVER supported the Bush administration. As a matter of fact, I believe that our government should give special tax assessments to the fools who voted for them. Despite my objections, I NEVER wanted this administration to fail, like the right wants. Marc Abrams |
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I have to agree with David and Marc. I don't get why now, all of a sudden, people are all concerned about government spending when Bush was spending left and right. For most people (not saying this is anyone here, just making a statement) they are okay with it when it is their "team" doing it. The only thing I don't agree with so far, economy wise, is giving GM more money. I know, they employ a lot of people, but they have been setting themselves up for failure for far too long. They will fall eventually, this is just a band-aid on the wound IMO.
I don't whole-heartedly agree with everything on Obama's agenda, but I side with him much more than I sided with McCain. I'm just not right-wing enough for some of the more (IMO of course) crazy right-wing issues; such as gay marriage and stem-cell research. So .... yeah, I am still happy with my vote. |
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Thank God they only have like 13% of voters now! Thanks for your comments, Marc. David |
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David |
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David:
I am not that worried about the "right wing.". The neocon's proved themselves to be utter moral, theoretical and practical failures. The old school conservatives would like to "take back" the party but they represent a dying breed of closed-minded, intolerant people. The moderates in the party (some of whom are articulate people with some good ideas) are being drowned out by whiny failures like Cheney, and whiny blowhards like Rush. As long as President Obama seeks the middle road and continues to marginalize the "far left" and "far right", he will continue to move our country in a better and ultimately healthier place in this world, despite the limitations inherent in having both parties being corrupt to the core. I had my doubts about President Obama when he started his run for office. I have gained a lot of respect and admiration for President Obama. A person who serves our country should have our best wishes for success regardless of whether we agree with that person's position. As an aside, since Cheney has talked about how much valuable information "harsh interrogation methods" have yielded, I suggest we subject him to those same methods in order to get him to share some information with the American public that he seems to want to keep secret. :D Marc Abrams |
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I didn't vote for Obama, but I'm beginning to wonder if it matters at all. Every candidate seems to be telling me the same thing:
"No, we won't leave you alone. We will do whatever we like with your constitutional rights, and we will fill your childrens' heads with whatever beliefs we hold dear. We will ignore history and implement programs that are going to fail. We will confiscate your hard-earned money and use it to kill people who've never done a damned thing to you. We will prop up whatever murderous warlord that will allow us to build a base in his country - with your tax dollars. We will continue to reward those that vote for us, and anyone outside of our tent will be punished. We will continue to allow tax cheats and lawbreakers to go unpunished (and give them high paying jobs that your taxes pay for), while we devise new taxes and new laws that YOU must follow. We will continue buying things that we cannot afford and begging the Chinese to fund our spending. Put down that history book! Listen to us.. ...because all the other parties are worse than we are!" To quote John Galt, "Get the hell out of my way!" |
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On a cable news channel a couple of years ago, a short segment showed former Pres. Clinton and former Pres.Bush (Sr.) out playing golf together. It pretty much summed up for me that there isn't much difference between the two except for the basic ideology
1) the Republican party stimulates the economy by borrowing and cutting taxes 2) the Democratic party stimulates the economy by spending and eventually raising taxes to cover the spending Though both parties stink in their own special way..... I still want to live in the U.S.A. more than any other country in the world. Obviously, by way of immigration, illegal or legal, so do a lot of other people. Kristina |
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Obama is not changing the way President Bush handled the spending of American tax dollars. Instead of change we can count on, he is following along the same path at an accelerated rate.
Instead of changing the course or slowing down the train he is staying the course and accelerating the train to the inevitable train wreck. * President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion. * President Bush began a string of expensive financial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course. * President Bush created a Medicare drug entitlement that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new government health care fund. * President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. President Obama would double it. * President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already increased this spending by 20 percent. http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/27/...t-in-pictures/ David |
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Rush, ORielly and many other talk jocks were trashing Bush all over the place for his programs and spending and deals with the Dems. You must have missed the rankor he roused in many republicans who voted for him. On many levels they felt betrayed. The comedy is people thinking these talk jocks were in bed with Bush. When many were getting slammed for being so opposed to what he was doing. Conservatism is NOT a party and its not so simplistic. It's a view and its not for sale-witness the tea pary movement with many Dems involved! People need to realize this is not a Dem / Republican issue, Nothing delights both sides more than the voters thinking its a part issue. It keeps the dynamic going and the eys off the real issues. They are spending our money on special interests not our interests. Bush and his "new republicans" proved they could spend more on public programs then the Dems and get us into debt on several fronts! The general accouting office stated the senior prescription drug program alone could eventually bankrupt the treasury. The best story I know is of a very welathy business man I deal with. He had senators and a congressman from both sides on his boat. The Dem senator said "David, if the people in this country knew what we were doing in D.C. they would come down and kill us all!" I agree with Churchill. "A nation trying to tax itself into prosperity is as useless - and as obvious - as a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself out of it." There are any number of ways the wealthy will avoid paying higher taxes, this to include not investing, not spending, and not creating jobs. They can afford to wait till he's gone-can we? I have four large projects that would each his up to a few hundred people from Architects, engineers, Contractors, suppliers, manufacturers, and would create jobs and pay taxed for several years. Each was funded from 6 million to 16 million dollars. Each developer pulled the plug. One of whom did so just because Obama was elected. Its anecdotal, sure, but where and when has it become a national view. Taxing at a high rate; capital gains, income, corporate, etc, means the very people you are going after will not spend it. It has never worked, it does not work, it never will work. When Pill-osy made a comment while discussing the wealthy on the house floor that "We need to find a way to access their money." It sent a loud and clear message. One that had ramifications past far past the wealthy. That was; she intends to spend, spend, spend, and the only way to recover from that is going to be Tax, Tax, Tax.Since the rich will not pay it....you will but it bears repeating that 35%, of something is better than 100% of nothing. Cailfornia just lost 20 Bill. of income through taxation. It is estimated that 11 bill of that is from the wealthy and the corporations who just simply left the state. Now add New York, Massachusetts, and otherstates to a federal view. It is well known that our corporations suffer under one of the highest Tax rates in the developed world and they are leaving. The governments answer? Tax more and find a way to force them to stay and pay. Obama...9 trillion over decades and counting will collapse the U.S. economy and turn us into the next third world country. With the stroke of a pen he will do it better, and it will be more final, than any counter culture America hating influence he was ever accused of associating with. Cheers Dan |
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Good Heavens. I just read this thread and it's amazing the amount of name-calling done by people who imagine themselves of higher principle than "losers", "neocons", "close-minded", and the like. :D
I tend to agree that it's been too short to tell much about Obama, although N.Korea's setting off of a nuke this morning (and the big missile right during Obama's european trip a few weeks ago) should be enough to tell people that a number of the bad-boyz have already taken a read on Obama where they think he's on the same level as Jimmuh Carter. However, my question would be more about what Obama has actually done that brings a question to my mind about "high principle". On about the second day Obama was in office, he signed an executive order telling unions that they no longer have to post a notice for union members to see that the union members can protest their dues being used for politics they disagree with. More recently, the Obama admin has defunded the office that investigates union leaders' financial transactions, particularly personal ones (an office that has been the source for many criminal convictions). More recently still, the Obama admin forced a number of Chrysler investors (who put up real money) to take about 30-cents on the dollar and then gave secondary/junior investors, the labor unions, 50-cents on the dollar for the Chrysler buyout. I.e., money was taken from people (actual investors) and given to unions. There is actually a law against this and lawsuits are now being drawn up. So Obama makes no bones about being in the pocket of organized-crime-controlled unions. Does that bother anyone else or is it just something to shrug off as OK because it's, well, you know, tough noogies. ;) Dan, that was a good quote by Churchill, but Churchill only helped win the war, he didn't help win the hearts of the very liberals who unrepentently got them into WWII. ;) Here's my favorite Churchill quote: I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Mike |
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I could see the whole debacle coming from far, far in the distance. Why would the Repubs feel betrayed when they picked a guy like that to lead them, instead of McCain? If they had actually believed anything they said about Clinton, they would have told GW to go Cheney himself and picked McCain for their candidate in 2000. I predicted (not in that column) that Bush would get us into another war like Vietnam (didn't count on TWO wars like VN), that he would ruin the economy, that he would favor the rich on the backs of the poor and that the country would be in a shambles by the time he finished four years. I didn't count on eight years. I thought surely by the time he finished with us over four years even the die-hard GOP would be sick of him as they were with his old man. But he did even more in eight years than even I imagined. So why didn't the GOP see this coming? I could tell what he was going to do. Why couldn't they? And as for the economy, eight years after Bush SLASHED the tax rates for the wealthy, why did everything fall apart just as Bush was leaving? Our economy was BOOMING from Eisenhower on into the 70s, when the wealthy were taxed at something like 90%! Now we have a nation where corporations pay pretty much nothing, pay their employees as little as possible, simply deny any obligation to pay earned pensions, etc., etc., etc., and everything crashes down. Why did that happen? As for me, I've been working on an idea for a long time, to build community center severe-weather shelters for all the little rural communities in Alabama where the sturdiest homes were built of chert in the 1930s and the most common home is mobile. I had an idea to bring together grants from federal, state and local sources to fund these shelters through a mix of emergency preparedness funds from FEMA, job training funds from whomever, energy efficiency funding, etc., etc., etc., to train workers to build high-energy-efficiency concrete domes by this method. While this idea was less than totally practical a year ago, it seems tailor-made for the kinds of investments the government will be making in the next few months. So, suddenly, the time may be arriving for that idea. I still think it's a better way to spend American tax monies than lining the pockets of sheikhs in Iraq and heroin producers in Afghanistan. If all the hoopla and lies and accusations and flowery claims of the past two years didn't bring us the best person available for the Presidency, I just can't imagine what we're going to do as a nation. I figured our American Democracy was dead when we ended up with a president selected by the Supreme Court (largely installed by the winning candidate's father) based on voting in a state where the winning candidate's brother controlled the vote (and where widespread claims of vote tampering and disenfranchisement were lodged). But when I think of McCain and Palin running this country, I'm afraid nothing anyone says about Obama can make me worry. However bad he makes things, I just can't imagine that it wouldn't be exponentially worse with McCain and Palin in the White House. Quote:
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Hardly what you'd call a liberal, but he knew that the whole thing was a sham for the enrichment of that class of Americans who make the most but pay, relatively, the least. Quote:
Second, a tax increase has been long overdue since Bush cut the taxes on the wealthy and then plunged us into two quagmire wars. We spent over $700 billion on Iraq alone. And that's just the figure from the jerrymandered book-keeping the Bush administration used to cover up the true cost. It also does not count the Afghanistan war or the health care for all the veterans who have been horribly wounded and disabled over there. Nor does it count the cost of the destruction wrought by the newly-cheap and more-available-than-ever flood of Heroin in our country. Taxes HAD to go up after Bush. There was no way around that. Quote:
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FWIW. David |
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Just out of curiosity, David, do you realize how much of your post is involved in villifying people you don't agree with? I'd be interested to hear you argue that you're more highly principled than the people you're personally villifying. ;)
Best. Mike |
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The investors watched the company going down the drain for months and years. They left their money at risk and they are lucky to get anything out of it. Just like the employees of United Airlines who were simply shafted out of money they had earned through hard work. The only difference is that the employees actually did work for those pensions and the investors simply screwed them. And for the investors, it's more like a night at a casino than any real risk to them. They lose, they don't really feel it, but the worker loses and his family is suddenly homeless. Which is really better for America? Quote:
David |
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So my comments are only to keep us grounded in real history. Bush DID represent EVERYTHING the republicans hated about Clinton but they elected him anyway. That's just a statement of fact. It's not me villifying Bush or the Republicans, but it's a truth that needs to be seriously considered. Next, Joe LeBleu, whom no one could call a liberal or coward, really shreds Bush and Cheney and pretty clearly says they're war criminals who started the war in Iraq for personal enrichment. And I accept that as a fact. I did identify Bush the day he popped up on the national scene and I predicted with absolute accuracy what a disaster his election would be for this nation. And I am telling you now that Obama is actually very much the opposite and as much as it pains the people who felt betrayed by Bush, Obama is going to clean up the mess Bush/Cheney made and get our economy back on track. He's no "messiah." He's just our President and he's going to be one of the best ever. Best to you. David |
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But do we envy crack dealers? Do we envy pimps? Don't we hate people like that, who develop a lot of money by illegal means? Isn't it the same (or shouldn't it be) for those who make their fortunes on the backs of the poor and ignorant (like pimps and crack dealers)? Isn't it as bad to make money by immoral means as it is by illegal means? In our society, the richest, rolling in money people have made their vast fortunes through the most immoral means and they walk free even when their methods were clearly illegal as well, because....why is that again? |
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On Obama being as soft as Jimmy Carter was:
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Mike |
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Regards, Mike |
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Speaking of vilification:
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Best, Ron |
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What was the whole eight years of republican attacks on Clinton, drawing away his very important attention and throwing monkey wrenches into his efforts to deal with the real problems of Osama bin Laden and al quaeda? But if I point out that Bush gave the wealthy a tax cut while starting two wars that would benefit the very people who got the tax cut, that's suddenly villification? Quote:
But is it worse for me to point out that Bush was AWOL and drunk while McCain was being tortured for his actions in Viet Nam? Or is it worse for Bush actually to DO those things? And is it worse for the Republicans to choose him over McCain? And is it worse for me to say Bush was incompetent at the war or worse for him to send good people to die (and to kill innocent people) through his incompetence? Sorry, but the whole Republican strategy for the past fifty years has depended first and foremost on the kind of Smear Machine that told rural voters that John McCain had fathered a black child. I don't have to look back to grade school to see a much worse personal villification in the pursuit of power. At least my villification comes from nothing more than being a citizen of this country and watching the greedy, hateful and ignorant feed it to the wealthy of the world--including Saudis, Iraqis and Afghanis. Does it make it worse that I'm saying true things for pure national interest instead of telling lies to get myself elected? Sorry, but having seen the right wing smear war for the past many decades, I don't see why I should hew to a quieter path. David |
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Well, a pejorative is not exactly a villification, Ron, although I see your perspective. Calling someone a "raghead" is not the same thing as saying someone was laying around drunk, if you see the difference. If David had included in his remarks something about Bush being a "redneck" it probably wouldn't even have registered with me in the way that calling someone a "loser" would have. Just as I'd enjoy a discussion sometime to hear something like "their fair share" defined, I'd also enjoy having a semantic argument about what "racist" actually means. But, hey... I enjoy discussions about semantics and etymology. ;) Best. Mike |
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Mike |
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NOooooooo.......
Don't do it. Can't look away.. Like a car accident happening in slow motion... This thread, that is. ;) For the record, they're all villains. Davos men, CFR, Builderberger...etc.. There is a large power shift happening...that goes way beyond US politics. My 0.02$ All the best, Josh p.s. just pulled up a Churchill quote page. Apparently he said this too: I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals. Sir Winston Churchill |
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