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-   -   Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12894)

Rhino2693 07-14-2007 11:10 AM

Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
I keep hearing that aikido does not work in a fight or if someone is unarmed....neither of these is true. When someone throws a punch, it can be treated the same as if someone is trying to stab you with a knife. This is very basic but it works...simply catch their arm or hand while twisting and redirecting their arm. If done correctly, you can either have complete control of the attacker or in a more advanced version knock them out all in one motion.

Rhino2693 07-14-2007 11:53 AM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
will some one someone with expierence in aikido please post just to see if i am accurate, i am only a beginner, and not even in a class.

jennifer paige smith 07-14-2007 12:10 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Ryan Tellez wrote: (Post 183656)
I keep hearing that aikido does not work in a fight or if someone is unarmed....neither of these is true. When someone throws a punch, it can be treated the same as if someone is trying to stab you with a knife. This is very basic but it works...simply catch their arm or hand while twisting and redirecting their arm. If done correctly, you can either have complete control of the attacker or in a more advanced version knock them out all in one motion.

As to the technique as you describe above(not that aikido doesn't work blah,blah,blah):
In theory, this is true. In practice,it depends on the person.

One thing i can tell you with confidence is that good budo practice will change your inner condition to see situations more fully, to examine your environment earlier and to contextualize a fight in manageable terms. If it is a 'unwinnable' situation you will know that early(er). If it is a situation where body placement makes all the difference, you will contemplate that. If the person is unstable, beyond typical violence (i.ie. mentally ill) you wil be able to feel that and act accordingly. As to which technique you use.....training will arise in unusual energetic ways and also in the form of standard techniques such as Kotegaeshi, shiho nage, sumi- otoshi.

Rhino2693 07-14-2007 12:11 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
what exactly is budo?

jennifer paige smith 07-14-2007 04:05 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Ryan Tellez wrote: (Post 183664)
what exactly is budo?

Wikipedia says:
Budo is a compound of the word bu , meaning war or martial; and do, meaning path or way. Specifically, do is derived from the Buddhist Sanskrit m?rga (meaning the 'path' to enlightenment).[1] The term refers to the idea of formulating propositions, subjecting them to philosophical critique and then following a 'path' to realize them.[2] D? signifies a 'way of life'. Do in the Japanese context, is experiential term, experiential in the sense that practice (the way of life) is the norm to verify the validity of the discipline cultivated through a given art form. The modern budo has no external enemy, only the internal enemy, one's ego that must be fought[3](state of Muga-mushin). Similarly to budo, bujutsu is a compound of the words bu and jutsu, meaning science, craft, or art. Thus, budo is most often translated as "the way of war", or "martial way", while bujutsu is translated as "science of war" or "martial craft." However, both budo and bujutsu are used interchangeably in English with the term "martial arts".

I say
Budo refers to traditional 'martial' methods.

Another meaningful translation is the"way to stop the spear", however one sees fit.
I'm sure other posters will offer you their definitions also.

CitoMaramba 07-14-2007 04:10 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
"budo" means grapes in Japanese..

jennifer paige smith 07-14-2007 04:10 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Cito Maramba wrote: (Post 183671)
"budo" means grapes in Japanese..

See. Martial arts are a product of Nature.:-)

Ketsan 07-14-2007 04:13 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Ryan Tellez wrote: (Post 183664)
what exactly is budo?

Budo is using martial training to develop yourself as a person rather than just becoming a better fighter. So basically it's a spirtual practice just like meditation etc only you might pick up some skills that'll help you out if you get into a violent situation along the way.

jennifer paige smith 07-14-2007 04:15 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Alex Lawrence wrote: (Post 183673)
Budo is using martial training to develop yourself as a person rather than just becoming a better fighter. So basically it's a spirtual practice just like meditation etc only you might pick up some skills that'll help you out if you get into a violent situation along the way.

and....you get to eat grapes;)

Ketsan 07-14-2007 04:20 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 183674)
and....you get to eat grapes;)

If they're not seedless I'm not touching them. Foul things grapes with seeds.

jennifer paige smith 07-14-2007 04:23 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Alex Lawrence wrote: (Post 183675)
If they're not seedless I'm not touching them. Foul things grapes with seeds.


Not even for ammunition?:D

CitoMaramba 07-14-2007 04:25 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
... now if he asked "what is 武道 ?"
then...

jennifer paige smith 07-14-2007 04:28 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Cito Maramba wrote: (Post 183679)
... now if he asked "what is ?? ?"
then...

how do you pronounce that?
and does that mean we can't eat grapes?

Ketsan 07-14-2007 04:29 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 183678)
Not even for ammunition?:D

Well maybe if I really wanted to inflict suffering on someone. "Hey, here's some nice grapes, shame you'll never enjoy them cuz right in the middle is a seed".

CitoMaramba 07-14-2007 04:30 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Jennifer Smith wrote: (Post 183681)
how do you pronounce that?
and does that mean we can't eat grapes?

It depends.. a certain pony-tailed nanadan prounounces it as "takemichi" :)

And yes we can eat grapes. Even seedless ones..

Ketsan 07-14-2007 04:30 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Cito Maramba wrote: (Post 183679)
... now if he asked "what is 武道 ?"
then...

These are the kind of mistakes beginners make.:D

jennifer paige smith 07-14-2007 04:31 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Alex Lawrence wrote: (Post 183682)
Well maybe if I really wanted to inflict suffering on someone. "Hey, here's some nice grapes, shame you'll never enjoy them cuz right in the middle is a seed".

ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.................

CNYMike 07-14-2007 04:58 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Ryan Tellez wrote: (Post 183656)
I keep hearing that aikido does not work in a fight or if someone is unarmed....neither of these is true. ......

'Course it works. That's why there are people who swear by it. If you surf this forum long enough, you'll see posts along those lines.

MMA works too; I wouldn't be surprised if some of those guys have their testimonials, too. So arguing over what should or shouldn't work is, IMHO, pointless.

And on the subject of budo, I prefer grape juice; I'm not much of a fresh fruit guy.

Don 07-14-2007 05:10 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
What you describe as a defense against against a punch is in principle true. In fact ikkyo undo is really all you need. We practice this against right cross and left hook all the time. I tcan be used to redirect or provide an opening to a technique. It is different than tsuki though because the punch has a little arc to it and it is at your face which is much different than coming at your middle. You must practice face punches to get over the fear of face punches.

DonMagee 07-14-2007 05:46 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
I actually think a stab and a punch are very different things. I'll break down why.

1) There are many kinds of punches, hooks, jabs, uppercuts, overhand strikes, etc.
2) People usually will not stab from the range in which they punch, most people stab from a clinch.

If we refer to the dramatic lunge punch and the really dump lunge stab, then yes, they are the same. But do people really attack like that? I know I wouldn't, even before I had any training I wouldn't. I'd try to rush, close the distance and make short fast stabs to the soft spots.

So they might share a little similarity to clinch fighting uppercuts, elbows, body hooks, etc. But not the types of punches most people usually consider when we talk about punching.

Roman Kremianski 07-14-2007 08:01 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Listen to Don mate, he's stabbed many people in his young days. :)

xuzen 07-14-2007 08:42 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Don Magee wrote: (Post 183695)
I actually think a stab and a punch are very different things. I'll break down why.

1) There are many kinds of punches, hooks, jabs, uppercuts, overhand strikes, etc.
2) People usually will not stab from the range in which they punch, most people stab from a clinch.

If we refer to the dramatic lunge punch and the really dump lunge stab, then yes, they are the same. But do people really attack like that? I know I wouldn't, even before I had any training I wouldn't. I'd try to rush, close the distance and make short fast stabs to the soft spots.

So they might share a little similarity to clinch fighting uppercuts, elbows, body hooks, etc. But not the types of punches most people usually consider when we talk about punching.

Don has a PhD is STABOLOGY (TM). Listen to him man.

As for the grapes, my favourite is the fermented type, better still if they were crushed prior with human feet.

Boon

DonMagee 07-15-2007 07:57 AM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Just don't tell anyone.

Seriously, do we really still believe people draw knives, stand outside the range of each other and lunge in?

jennifer paige smith 07-15-2007 09:17 AM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Don Magee wrote: (Post 183736)
Just don't tell anyone.

Seriously, do we really still believe people draw knives, stand outside the range of each other and lunge in?

Granted.

And it also depends on what 'people' you're talking about. Here are some fairly accurate pieces of info for as far as generalizations go: Prison style stabbings follow particular a pattern, shanking with multiple quick stabs; White guy in bar holds knife way too far in front of him and is pretty slow on the draw; young guy never held a knife before his friends gave hime one this year telegraphs his intentions very early; chica chicana and her gang come at you as a group and jab you from above in a mass of confusion, razor blades are also a favorite in this group.
Diverse and focused training in ones particular style, along with a developed ability to settle inside during stress, are allies in training for anything.

Just don't tell them.

gdandscompserv 07-15-2007 01:29 PM

Re: Aikido does work in a fight and withsomeone unarmed
 
Quote:

Don Magee wrote: (Post 183736)
Seriously, do we really still believe people draw knives, stand outside the range of each other and lunge in?

If they both have knives, perhaps.


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