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-   -   Aikido: Your purpose in life ? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8675)

Jiawei 08-10-2005 07:26 AM

Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Has Aikido given you a purpose in life ? A sense of direction : that Aikido is all you ever wanted and all you would ever want to do over and over in this life ? Have you ever thought of even being an uchi deshi at the hombu dojos and dreamed of having a close bunch of fellow deshis to share your life with ? :ai: :ki: :do:

happysod 08-10-2005 08:25 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Has Aikido given you a purpose in life ?
nope
Quote:

A sense of direction : that Aikido is all you ever wanted and all you would ever want to do over and over in this life ?
- I have a life, aikido is a part of it
Quote:

Have you ever thought of even being an uchi deshi at the hombu dojos and dreamed of having a close bunch of fellow deshis to share your life with
I shower alone and avoid all cults with new "gettaway ya booger" hair tonic

Sorry, while I find your enthusiasm engaging, the lack on any critical thinking implied by your post rather worrying. Aikido is not there to fill a gap in your life, it should (at best) be there to enhance it in some way. May I suggest trying sex and alcohol first - cheap and potentially sleazy options which normally lead to life ennobling choices or long term angst, either of which have (historically) at least bring forth awesome music.

Mats Alritzson 08-10-2005 08:27 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
I think you should be very careful not to let one interest define your whole life. If you for some reason would have to quit doing Aikido you would be lost. Even Osensei practiced Omoto kyo parallel to Aikido.

Charles Hill 08-10-2005 04:15 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Mats Alritzson wrote:
Even Osensei practiced Omoto kyo parallel to Aikido.

Hi Mats,

It is very clear that to O'Sensei, Aikido was his expression of Omoto Kyo. In Omoto Kyo, adherents are encouraged to become artists in art forms that appeal to them or in which they have some natural talent. For Morihei Ueshiba it was the martial arts. This is why he claimed that what he was doing had no relation to Daito Ryu or any other martial art.

Charles Hill

Mats Alritzson 08-10-2005 04:24 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Charles.

Did you have to spoil the point I tried to make? ;)

/Mats

Jiawei 08-10-2005 10:48 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Hey Guys ,

the only reason why I asked this question is simply becasue I remember a sensei saying how he has lost the purpose in his life when Japan lost the war. Then he found Aikido..... I caouldn't remember his name or where the article is anymore which is why I did not mention this in my first post.you read too much into my post. And its not very nice to suggest I am under some kind of cult influence. For the info I have not practiced Aikido for 2 years although I plan to after my studies.

AND I AM NOT STUPID. What is this nonsense about the lack of intellectual content of mty first post. Can't I just pose a question out of curiosity if there were any who view aikido as their purpose in life ? Can't I just be curious if there would still be any who would want to be Uchi Deshi ?

MIND YOUR WORDS.

Jiawei 08-10-2005 10:50 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
And, if you want to argue about cultic, why don;t you look at the more abstract topics being discussed like "waht is KI" or just look at this website with Osensei's dokas . And Mark, you can't even get your facts right and both you and the other guy who replied me wants to argue about intellect ? So I guess you're saying this whole thread on spirituality is under cultic influence ? Why don't you compare and contrast before you comment Ian. Not to say that they are cultic, but you are labelling my thread.....Oh let me guess, you applied Zan shin and figured that my motive out ..heh

Jiawei 08-10-2005 11:08 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
And its only because I'm typing fast that there are spelling errors.

Jiawei 08-10-2005 11:16 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Ai Ki DO . Do = way . Way means way of life.

Translate : Way of living AI KI. AI KI is your goal your PURPOSE. Yes do check this thread too.
How dou YOU incorporate Aikido in Daily life?

Just to answer my critics , Mr Ian and Mark. :mad:

Jiawei 08-10-2005 11:54 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
And one final word to Ian :

Let us hypothesize : not that it is true but let us say for this instance, for the sake of the argument : So what if I do sincerely want to make Aikido my purpose for living rather than sex and booze ?

So what ? You mean I can't use my resources and education to invest it in studying Aikido while taking care of my family ? So what if I do desire to be Uchi Deshi ? Earn my living and use the money to go to Japan to train ? So what ? Who made you God Ian ?

Here is me appealing to your emotion (Pathos) and your logic (Logos) : Its better to have some goal, purpose and direction in your life than to have none. And here is my refute to your post : Besides Martial Arts being martial, they are DO's . Some of them at least. And why do you think they created Dos rather than stick with Jitsu ? May I suggest a sense of purpose in life ? In the case of AI KI DO , in the vernacular that everybody is familiar with : The purpose is to discover the true Budo - Aiki. In Karate, there is the school Kyo Ku Shin, ultimate truth. Their purpose when sparring and practising their art is obviously to discover Ultimate Truth in life.
And what of Ken DO and Ju DO and all the other DOS ?

So coming back to the post which you criticized as having no "critical thinking" and our hypothesis : You are seriously not just criticizing me but indirectly the whole history of Aiki DO. So I leave you with my introduction inquisitive (at the end of this argument) : SO WHAT OF I DO MAKE AIKIDO THE PURPOSE OF MY LIFE ? This question goes to Ian Hurst not the Aikido community online. Exactly, none of your so called intellectual business.

Jiawei 08-11-2005 01:16 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
How old were you when you began the practice of Aikido, and how did you find it?

I was 17, right after World War II ended. I wanted to help my country after its defeat by the U.S. I had returned from training to be a kamikaze pilot, and Japan had surrendered before I could fly my suicide mission. This sense of loss overwhelmed me, and I was searching for a purpose in life.
From:
Aikido Online : http://www.aikidoonline.com/
Interview With Akira Tohei Shihan, copyright 1998

So, now that loose ends are tied up, back to my question . Has anybody ever felt that Aikido gave them a sense of purpose and direction in life ?

Jiawei 08-11-2005 01:57 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Jiawei Lee wrote:
And one final word to Ian :

Let us hypothesize : not that it is true but let us say for this instance, for the sake of the argument : So what if I do sincerely want to make Aikido my purpose for living rather than sex and booze ?

So what ? You mean I can't use my resources and education to invest it in studying Aikido while taking care of my family ? So what if I do desire to be Uchi Deshi ? Earn my living and use the money to go to Japan to train ? So what ? Who made you God Ian ?

Here is me appealing to your emotion (Pathos) and your logic (Logos) : Its better to have some goal, purpose and direction in your life than to have none. And here is my refute to your post : Besides Martial Arts being martial, they are DO's . Some of them at least. And why do you think they created Dos rather than stick with Jitsu ? May I suggest a sense of purpose in life ? In the case of AI KI DO , in the vernacular that everybody is familiar with : The purpose is to discover the true Budo - Aiki. In Karate, there is the school Kyo Ku Shin, ultimate truth. Their purpose when sparring and practising their art is obviously to discover Ultimate Truth in life.
And what of Ken DO and Ju DO and all the other DOS ?

So coming back to the post which you criticized as having no "critical thinking" and our hypothesis : You are seriously not just criticizing me but indirectly the whole history of Aiki DO. So I leave you with my introduction inquisitive (at the end of this argument) : SO WHAT OF I DO MAKE AIKIDO THE PURPOSE OF MY LIFE ? This question goes to Ian Hurst not the Aikido community online. Exactly, none of your so called intellectual business.

Sorry, what I meant was none of Ian Hurst's so called intellectual business.

happysod 08-11-2005 02:40 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Hilarious, thanks for the read. I wish you every success in making a mountain out of a molehill.

Jiawei 08-11-2005 03:00 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Ian Hurst wrote:
Hilarious, thanks for the read. I wish you every success in making a mountain out of a molehill.

You're welcome . :p

Dirk Hanss 08-11-2005 03:51 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Hi Jiawei,
I cannot speak for Ian, so it is just my view. Some of us - including me - have a special kind of humour and sometimes forget that not everything here is under the humor section. You are right telling us that do not share our kind of fun.

But do not take any of us too seriously.
Maybe if you extract the simple information, you can read some advice. Regardsless if it is what you want to read, think about it and make up your own decision, as no one here is God.

Well back to the track.
Personally, yes Aikido has given me a purpose for my life. Mostly in the sense that try to learn from the "Way of Harmonized Energies" - I know it is a bad translation, I just could't get it better right now - and apply it or some of it to the rest of my life. Aikido as practicing is great, but not a goal for me by itself.

And no Aikido is not everything, I want to do. I love my family and I love my job. So there are other things I want to do. And ven if i would have much more time, I would maybe some of them for windsurfing -can improve your balance, physically and mentally,too - or others. Well, somehow it is a "sex-and-drug-and-rock'n-roll" argument, if you want to point it out to extreme.

And again yes, being an uchi-deshi for 3 month, 6 month or a year would be great. At the moment it is not possible for me, and i do not know, if they would take a mid-40s either. I jut take it as a dream. If somehow everything is prepared, I might even have a try.

And my advice is also a warning. If you want to make aikido become everything in your life, the one and only purpose, you might look forward to a great life of harmony. But it is an unstable harmony. Any accident inside or outside the dojo can change your chances for ever. There are good examples that that need not stop your aikido practice in total, but probabilty does not show evidence that it will still can be the only thing you are doing then.

Do only aikido, become sensei, have your own dojo. What happens, if people do not want to pay enough for you to live? What if your students do not share your empathy and just want to come for fun? What if living together with other uch-deshi is not what you expected?

You may be disappointed and you should prepared. And you always should have a plan B.

Have a lot of fun. Maybe we meet sometimes on the mat.

Cordially Dirk

Bridge 08-11-2005 05:58 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
I am possibly far too young to have a valid opinion here, it's getting into the realms of spirituality, psychology, your upbringing etc., anyway...

Could it be that aikido or your enthusiasm for, be a manfestation of what your existing goals/needs are in life? (Whether you are conscious of them or not?)

And would it apply to any other pursuit or interest?

Does aikido (or any other activity) provide you with a tangible set of ideas, ideals and targets that satisfy your intellectual, social (etc.,) needs that you have been previously unable to identify?

Sorry, I seem to be throwing in more questions than answers.

Jiawei 08-11-2005 06:08 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Dirk Hanss wrote:
Hi Jiawei,
I cannot speak for Ian, so it is just my view. Some of us - including me - have a special kind of humour and sometimes forget that not everything here is under the humor section. You are right telling us that do not share our kind of fun.

But do not take any of us too seriously.
Maybe if you extract the simple information, you can read some advice. Regardsless if it is what you want to read, think about it and make up your own decision, as no one here is God.

Well back to the track.
Personally, yes Aikido has given me a purpose for my life. Mostly in the sense that try to learn from the "Way of Harmonized Energies" - I know it is a bad translation, I just could't get it better right now - and apply it or some of it to the rest of my life. Aikido as practicing is great, but not a goal for me by itself.

And no Aikido is not everything, I want to do. I love my family and I love my job. So there are other things I want to do. And ven if i would have much more time, I would maybe some of them for windsurfing -can improve your balance, physically and mentally,too - or others. Well, somehow it is a "sex-and-drug-and-rock'n-roll" argument, if you want to point it out to extreme.

And again yes, being an uchi-deshi for 3 month, 6 month or a year would be great. At the moment it is not possible for me, and i do not know, if they would take a mid-40s either. I jut take it as a dream. If somehow everything is prepared, I might even have a try.

And my advice is also a warning. If you want to make aikido become everything in your life, the one and only purpose, you might look forward to a great life of harmony. But it is an unstable harmony. Any accident inside or outside the dojo can change your chances for ever. There are good examples that that need not stop your aikido practice in total, but probabilty does not show evidence that it will still can be the only thing you are doing then.

Do only aikido, become sensei, have your own dojo. What happens, if people do not want to pay enough for you to live? What if your students do not share your empathy and just want to come for fun? What if living together with other uch-deshi is not what you expected?

You may be disappointed and you should prepared. And you always should have a plan B.

Have a lot of fun. Maybe we meet sometimes on the mat.

Cordially Dirk

Hi Dirk,

no. I don't want to make Aikido the only thing in my life. Like I mentioned previously, its just a curiosity that springs from my mind and my question is for anybody , not because I want to make Aikido the purpose of my life.

I was curious if anybody had this train of thought-to make Aikido the sole goal of his life. This curiosity was sparked by reading the article I mentioned in one of my previous posts. So when I saw that Ian said it was void of critical thinking and Mark following a similar train of thought, I got mad. But you're right, it might just have been a humourous quip.

Thanks Dirk, for your reply. :)

Paul Smith 08-11-2005 06:10 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
What I find troubling is not Jiawei's enthusiasm, or implied fervor, or even fanaticism, if that is how folks want to frame it, but the rampant cynicsm posted in reply.

I think that we in modernity, generally, and we in the west, specifically, have forgotten what it is to give over a life to a guru. Or a Sensei. It is the definition of living as uchideshi, and it is a good path.

If you seek this experience, and wish to live this way, in a world replete with alienation - godspeed, unleash the desire and go, fully.

Paul

Jiawei 08-11-2005 06:12 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Bridget Chung wrote:
I am possibly far too young to have a valid opinion here, it's getting into the realms of spirituality, psychology, your upbringing etc., anyway...

Could it be that aikido or your enthusiasm for, be a manfestation of what your existing goals/needs are in life? (Whether you are conscious of them or not?)

And would it apply to any other pursuit or interest?

Does aikido (or any other activity) provide you with a tangible set of ideas, ideals and targets that satisfy your intellectual, social (etc.,) needs that you have been previously unable to identify?

Sorry, I seem to be throwing in more questions than answers.

No Bridget, no one is too young to have her/his views taken in account. Possibly what you said is true. When Akira Tohei Shihan lost his purpose after Japanese defeat in WW2, it could be that Aikido was there at the right time. What if Aikido was not available but a job....you're right. Some people take their occupations as their sole purpose. Thus the term workaholic...hee

Bridge 08-11-2005 06:53 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Jiawei Lee wrote:
No Bridget, no one is too young to have her/his views taken in account. Possibly what you said is true. When Akira Tohei Shihan lost his purpose after Japanese defeat in WW2, it could be that Aikido was there at the right time. What if Aikido was not available but a job....you're right. Some people take their occupations as their sole purpose. Thus the term workaholic...hee

And workaholics are often regarded as people with no real life outside work and possibly unhealthy...

As for the original question, aikido doesn't give me a purpose in life, just one of many happy distractions while I carry on living my life. Along with all the other things Ian Hurst approves of! :D

I notice on the original question that being an uchi deshi and being with other deshi was mentioned as something to yearn for. Well, that is really being with like minded people and helping each other to develop, striving to be the best that you can be, which I would consider a personal purpose (among many) and aikido would be just a vehicle for it.

Charles Hill 08-11-2005 07:03 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Mats Alritzson wrote:
Did you have to spoil the point I tried to make?

Any time, my friend, any time.:)

Anyway, seriously, we would probably do well to remember O'Sensei's total dedication to Aikido was not without cost. According to Kisshomaru Sensei, his father did not spend much time with his family. There were definitely issues and Morihei Ueshiba probably should not be considered a complete role model. I encourage everyone to learn about Rinjiro Shirata, one of O'Sensei's pre and post war students. Shirata Sensei was a Budo genius and he worked for an insurance company practically up until he passed away.

Charles

Paul Smith 08-11-2005 07:46 AM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Charles Hill wrote:
Any time, my friend, any time.:)

Anyway, seriously, we would probably do well to remember O'Sensei's total dedication to Aikido was not without cost. According to Kisshomaru Sensei, his father did not spend much time with his family. There were definitely issues and Morihei Ueshiba probably should not be considered a complete role model. I encourage everyone to learn about Rinjiro Shirata, one of O'Sensei's pre and post war students. Shirata Sensei was a Budo genius and he worked for an insurance company practically up until he passed away.

Charles

Actually, I think both things are possible - live in the world, fully, and give oneself fully to a teacher or a way. In fact, this is one of the things which most struck me about Toyoda Shihan, who lived fully as a resident in the intense experience of Ichikukai misogi training - for three years, living and training zen, a distinctively severe version of misogi training, as well as Aikido at Hombu Dojo, all while earning his law degree. It was important to him that his uchideshi learn a similar world view. But it was equally important to him that his uchideshi understood that they entered into a singular, selfless relationship with him once becoming uchideshi - and all else was secondary.

I therefore don't think the two notions - devote oneself fully to an art, and devote oneself fully to things of the world - are in conflict. In fact, I think this is a flowering of the zen ideal.

Paul

JohnDavis 08-11-2005 10:40 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Fascinating thread folks. Jiawei, your story of your beginnings in Aikido are very interesting. I am glad you found Aikido instead of a mission as a Kamakazi. One of my great uncles was on a battleship in the Pacific and they had quite a few attacks to fend off. I would not like it if he or one of his shipmates had to shoot you down.

Does Aikido give me purpose in my life? Sure, but so does my wife, my children and my church and community. It is all a part of life, as I choose to live it. Would my life have as much purpose without Aikido? Probably. It has been some time since I could practice regularly in a dojo so I can't say that missing that comaradery and environment would make me feel bad, as I am already missing it, but feel ok about myself.

I would say that Aikido has informed my life and helped me realize a greater value to life and the things I have in it. Unlike some people who live for their jobs (like many Real Estate Agents and Brokers I know), Aikido is not MY life. It is, however, one of the parts that makes life fun.

I am glad that you found a purpose in Aikido, Jiawei, I truly am. O Sensei's art is truly a gift to the universe.

Jiawei 08-11-2005 10:51 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

John Davis wrote:
Fascinating thread folks. Jiawei, your story of your beginnings in Aikido are very interesting. I am glad you found Aikido instead of a mission as a Kamakazi. One of my great uncles was on a battleship in the Pacific and they had quite a few attacks to fend off. I would not like it if he or one of his shipmates had to shoot you down.

Does Aikido give me purpose in my life? Sure, but so does my wife, my children and my church and community. It is all a part of life, as I choose to live it. Would my life have as much purpose without Aikido? Probably. It has been some time since I could practice regularly in a dojo so I can't say that missing that comaradery and environment would make me feel bad, as I am already missing it, but feel ok about myself.

I would say that Aikido has informed my life and helped me realize a greater value to life and the things I have in it. Unlike some people who live for their jobs (like many Real Estate Agents and Brokers I know), Aikido is not MY life. It is, however, one of the parts that makes life fun.

I am glad that you found a purpose in Aikido, Jiawei, I truly am. O Sensei's art is truly a gift to the universe.

Hi John, hey , that wasn't my story -that was Akira Tohei Sensei's beginnings from Aikido online ! :eek: Haha !! No Aikido is not my sole goal for living . This ....I've explained in several threads earlier....the question of Aikido as being the purpose of life sparked curiousity in me because I read the interview with Sensei Tohei from Aikido online...hee. I don't intend to be Uchi Deshi. Not yet at least. :D

RebeccaM 08-11-2005 11:07 PM

Re: Aikido: Your purpose in life ?
 
Quote:

Paul Smith wrote:
I think that we in modernity, generally, and we in the west, specifically, have forgotten what it is to give over a life to a guru. Or a Sensei. It is the definition of living as uchideshi, and it is a good path.

Not quite true. Grad students all over are given over to their advisors. Even in my case, where my advisor is, in addition to being talented, a genuinely decent human being, it's no picnic. And for those of my peers who have advisors who are just plain cruel...:(

Aikido hasn't given my life meaning. It's added meaning maybe, and certainly given me tools to solve my problems with (and no, I'm not talking about yonkyo, though for some problems it's tempting), but aikido is not my reason for being.


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