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-   -   Fall training (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13193)

Erik Jögimar 09-06-2007 05:45 PM

Fall training
 
Been practicing aikido for whole 2 weeks now (yay!) and
have a small problem with break falls on the side, where
you slap the mat to direct off energy to break the fall.

It's difficult to explain as i dont have the appropiate english
skills, but everytime after we've practiced this method i get
a pain very high up where the thigh meets.

heck one morning i could barely get my leg high enough to
pull the pants on. Is this a normal reaction to these breakfalls
or is it just a bonkers reaction from someone who's been
a couch potatoe for the past 5 years? ;)

Larry Cuvin 09-06-2007 06:02 PM

Re: Fall training
 
Hi Erik,
Something is wrong! Just two weeks into Aikido and you're doing breakfalls on the side? I'd hate to be in your shoes. At our dojo, we are taught to constantly improve on our forward and back rolls.
Ask your sensei what are you doing wrong before you injure yourself to the point where you have to take time-off to heal.

You have to take your time, maybe learn slowly but more importantly, safely.

Good Luck
Larry

Erik Jögimar 09-06-2007 06:06 PM

Re: Fall training
 
Quote:

Larry Cuvin wrote: (Post 188861)
Hi Erik,
Something is wrong! Just two weeks into Aikido and you're doing breakfalls on the side? I'd hate to be in your shoes. At our dojo, we are taught to constantly improve on our forward and back rolls.
Ask your sensei what are you doing wrong before you injure yourself to the point where you have to take time-off to heal.

You have to take your time, maybe learn slowly but more importantly, safely.

Good Luck
Larry

I havent brought it up becuase frankly it's gone soon enough. I practice at 6pm, and at 8am it hurts, and the next morning it's all gone. And we're doing tons of forward and backrolls too! :)

Eric Webber 09-06-2007 08:42 PM

Re: Fall training
 
Address it with your teacher or a senior student who has ggod ukemi and and is open to helping beginners. A little attention goes a long a way.

SeiserL 09-07-2007 07:23 AM

Re: Fall training
 
Have your Sensei or a Sempai watch your form.

It sounds like you may be landing flat on your hip first, then the rest of you body.

Exhale and relax into it from a roll letting the body unfold. Or, exhale and relax into letting the body hit simultaneously, at the same time. Or, exhale and relax into it letting the arm slap and feet hit first, holding a slight arch so the hip barely (or not at all) touch the mat.

Takes practice. Your injuries only suggest you are both a beginner and have not learned correct form yet. Its on the learning curve.

Exhale, relax, practice, and enjoy yourself.

SmilingNage 09-07-2007 10:47 AM

Re: Fall training
 
Bravo for doing break falls so soon. But if at all possible dont do them now. Wait until you have a stronger understanding of rolling. Break Falls are essentially rolls in the in the air. Develop your rolling ukemi first before taking the next step. In my opinion, it is to soon, you are risking injury that could keep you out from training and worse case could injure you severely.

Your dojo may have a different approach to breakfall learning and teaching, so consult with your teacher. Train safe but also train smart.

Erik Jögimar 09-07-2007 09:56 PM

Re: Fall training
 
Actually our beginners group got a little correction. He did notice we land on our hip/arse first, then the rest of the body, so we were adjusted to land on the whole body instead. I just bent my knees, and fell and slapped the mat. Felt much better. At least no pain yet :)

BK Barker 09-16-2007 09:20 AM

Re: Fall training
 
Quote:

Erik Jögimar wrote: (Post 189035)
Actually our beginners group got a little correction. He did notice we land on our hip/arse first, then the rest of the body, so we were adjusted to land on the whole body instead. I just bent my knees, and fell and slapped the mat. Felt much better. At least no pain yet :)

Erik what you describe here sounds more like Ushiro Ukemi then a breakfall. I have been practicing aikido under a very good sensei and am testing for my yellow belt this upcoming monday and I have not done any breakfalls. I bet you are working on Ukemi's but somehow someone said/figured/thought they were doing breakfalls which can be done easily.

Erik Jögimar 09-16-2007 03:40 PM

Re: Fall training
 
Quote:

Brian Barker wrote: (Post 189770)
Erik what you describe here sounds more like Ushiro Ukemi then a breakfall. I have been practicing aikido under a very good sensei and am testing for my yellow belt this upcoming monday and I have not done any breakfalls. I bet you are working on Ukemi's but somehow someone said/figured/thought they were doing breakfalls which can be done easily.

It's possible i got the wrong word, as i am not natively english speaking. What we do is we lift one foot, and fall flat on our side, with our arm reaching out and slapping the mat right before we land to channel off the energy from the impact. If it's not called break fall, i really dont know what else it might be called.

BK Barker 09-17-2007 12:29 PM

Re: Fall training
 
Could it be that they are one in the same only done on different levels???

For example... when I started we would do the following:

Ushiro Ukemi- Squat Fall Backwards
Mae Ukemi- Squat Fall Forwards on Arms
Yoko Ukemi- Side Fall from Horse Stance.

Now what I am believing to be breakfalls is either jumping/diving or more of flip that happens from a technique. In other words you do a breakfall from a techinique that you get airborne.

But then again.... could they be the same but on different levels??

Erik Jögimar 09-21-2007 01:04 AM

Re: Fall training
 
Quote:

Brian Barker wrote: (Post 189833)
Could it be that they are one in the same only done on different levels???

For example... when I started we would do the following:

Ushiro Ukemi- Squat Fall Backwards
Mae Ukemi- Squat Fall Forwards on Arms
Yoko Ukemi- Side Fall from Horse Stance.

Now what I am believing to be breakfalls is either jumping/diving or more of flip that happens from a technique. In other words you do a breakfall from a techinique that you get airborne.

But then again.... could they be the same but on different levels??

Possibly. We either stand normally, lift one foot, so we fall flat on one side of our body as we hit the mat. Or we squat. We've done both versions. The latter first, as some found it uncomfortable to "fall over" at first.

Janet Rosen 09-22-2007 11:11 PM

Re: Fall training
 
The word breakfall also applies in many dojo to what our original poster is doing. It is not unusual for newbies to start learning this as it is appropriate when you are thrown down rather than back.

Neil Mick 09-24-2007 03:51 AM

Re: Fall training
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 188899)
Have your Sensei or a Sempai watch your form.

It sounds like you may be landing flat on your hip first, then the rest of you body.

Exhale and relax into it from a roll letting the body unfold. Or, exhale and relax into letting the body hit simultaneously, at the same time. Or, exhale and relax into it letting the arm slap and feet hit first, holding a slight arch so the hip barely (or not at all) touch the mat.

Takes practice. Your injuries only suggest you are both a beginner and have not learned correct form yet. Its on the learning curve.

Exhale, relax, practice, and enjoy yourself.

All excellent training points.

Here are a few to add to the list:

As you exhale and relax into the fall, imagine a waterfall running down your back and out your arms as you tumble.

Try taking the roll progressively slower than your usual speed. See how slowly you can make the fall (you might have to make this into an actual roll, instead of a breakfall, to accomplish this).

Stefan Stenudd 09-25-2007 05:17 AM

Soft falling
 
There has been a lot of development of the ukemi techniques in the last couple of decades. Some can fall gently and noiselessly on kotegaeshi, with a special ukemi technique.

A member of our dojo, Mathias Hultman, always amazes me with his kotegeashi ukemi, which is close to how some others do it, but he has developed it himself. I guess it could be described as sort of a side-fall, instead of a forward fall.
You find it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gEUpMipl8Q

I include the YouTube embed code below, but I'm not sure if that works here:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7gEUpMipl8Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7gEUpMipl8Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Erik Jögimar 09-27-2007 04:16 AM

Re: Fall training
 
Stefan,

I've seen your stuff on youtube and it's always a wonderful experience. I only hope i can become as skilled!

The side falling practice we've done has taken a turn for much better. On the right side i can litteraly throw myself in the air and land on it without hesitation, or pain. The left side tho....hehe, it's a whole different story :p

Hultman has an interesting kotegaeshi ukemi though i shouldnt say much, as kotegaeshi isnt my strong side...yet ;)

Thanks for the vid!


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