kata dori vs. katate dori
durring class today I recalled something that I've confused in the past while training. is kata dori the lapel grab & katate dori the same side wrist grab or do I have these confused?
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Re: kata dori vs. katate dori
you are correct, kata dori = lapel/shoulder grab, katate tori = wrist grab
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Re: kata dori vs. katate dori
In this context, in general usage:
Kata = shoulder Ryokata = two/both shoulders Eri = lapel Katate = single wrist Ryote or ryote mochi dori = both wrists (grabbed) Morote = two hands grabbing one wrist Kosa dori or kosa katate dori = single-wrist, cross-hand There's some variation between styles and lineages, sometimes from dojo to dojo, too. Chuck |
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Japanese seems to me to be the language of infinite homophones :).
Best regards, |
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Best regards, |
Re: kata dori vs. katate dori
For future reference, Te means hand. :) So anything with Te in it you can be sure is a grab at the wrist.
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Re: kata dori vs. katate dori
thank you very much, I later discused this with my sensai & it seemed something that a lot of past/current students have had difficulty with, he also differentiated between the 2 the next class peroid. once again thanks for the input
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Bryce |
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Well.... reading and pronouncing wouldn't be the same "ki" though, would it? For the "Ki" we're generally talking about, both Chinese and Japanese tend to use the right-hand character up at the top left of this page, wouldn't you agree? Good heavens.... this reminds me of the story about a college professor who spent 40 years of his life trying to prove that the "Illiad" wasn't written by Homer, but by another Greek of the same name. ;) Mike |
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To respond to Mike Sigman:
Actually, the ki character at the top of this page is NOT generally used in Japan today. Nor is it used in China. The character you see (above) is the old version. Both Japanese and Chinese use two different new versions - confusing huh? Only Korea uses the old original version (as above), except that, they rarely use kanji (hanja) in their writing these days. PS Not sure about Taiwan - they probably use the old version too. |
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Mike |
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My Japanese students here have a different problem. Of course, there is the hearing problem. They hear the techniques called out in a grading test from people like me; their native language is uttered in a 'home' setting, but by non natives, which is usually a major challenge. There is an additional problem causd by the fact that aikido terms are not really common Japanese. Thus, no adult Japanese would have any problem in immediately understanding and writing any of the terms mentioned in my earlier post (escept perhaps for jaki). But kata-dori? Taking the shoulder? Katate-dori? Half hand taking? They would need to fit these terms with the logograph-art gallery carried in their heads. I have found that the terms make much better sense after the techniques have been shown, not before. Best regards, |
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Sincerely, |
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Hi, Peter,
That's interesting about your students not understanding the Jpn, either. Quote:
Bokken and Keyboard by Pete Goldsbury; Aikido and Japanese Culture by P.A. Goldsbury; Remembering Osensei's DESHI by Peter Goldsbury; Aikido Shihan and the Harmony of Admin Meetings by Peter Goldsbury; The Spiritual Pretensions of Aikido by Peter Goldsbury ...works for me, anyway... YOROSHIKU! |
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I'm working on it. However, I think the last three publications would have to be posthumous :D . |
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Ive only trained in the US once, but I couldn't understand any of the Japanese spoken in the dojo either. My Japanese is far from perfect, but Ive become use to hearing the "perfect" (read:native) pronunciation (with a heavy dose of mikawa-ben of course :D ) so foreign pronunciation might as well be an entirely different language.
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Thanxs Gabriel |
Re: kata dori vs. katate dori
Gabriel,
I thik that if you reed the words by every pair of leters they will soun more less like: ka-ta do-ri four beat (cuatro tiempos en espaņol), and ka-ta-te do-ri five beats (cinco tiempos). Sorry for the spanish words guys, I was just trying to explain myself beter to gabriel. (tiempos means tempo like in music.) |
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Sorry I missed some letters in think and sound. oooops :sorry:
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thanx Pablo... but what does the beats do for me? still don't get that part?
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Re: kata dori vs. katate dori
As I undertood, Don is saying that during examinations, the students (under stress) react to an instruction that they think they heard. If the instructor order them to perform katate dori they may hear kata dori and do someting diferent than expected, and that by listening to the tempo and the general sound of the instructiion it may be easier to get it right.
Thats what I did get from it. :confused: |
Re: kata dori vs. katate dori
Ohh... thanx I got it know, neat trick thanx!
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