Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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Apart from all this the meanings of control and manipulation can be looked at from the view of good control or bad control, or many other forms of control and then onto intention behind the control etc. Thus the debate could go on. Now to add one more thing which I feel is pertinent to Aikido and indeed pertinent to the types of things Ueshiba said. For some I get them practicing the principle of non-control. This is neither control nor not controlling. Yet it is eye opening. Here again in communication especially on a forum it would lead to various assumptions and yet it is a precise term use by me. Peace.G. |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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Tom |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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As far as I know the OP talked about Aikido. So did I (although I was also thinking about the way people control and manipulate nature - a professional habbit, I am alweays thinking about nature). I could have told you a similar story about my father. But I do not understand why you would call that control or manipulation - it is a confrontation with reality, harsh maybe, but nevertheless a good lesson. The purpose of it is to teach. Not to tighten the reigns. So where is the control? Or the manipulation? I remember a children's class in the Aikido dojo where a parent hit the child on the head because the child forgot to bow at the entrance of the dojo. On another occasion a child was yelled at because he could not tie his obi. One parent went as far as to call his child names like stupid and idiot. All examples of parents using control and manipulation the make the child do something that see as important. Considering this, is it really that strange that I define control and manipulation as a form of aggression? But perhaps Covey is right after all and do we indeed react from our "autobiographical" experiences. Tom |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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I thought that someone like you who is skilled in natural language and prefers a conversation where not everything needs to be spelled out would surely appreciate the subtlety of such an offer. Second, if you choose to come back in a conversation after you have been using derogatory words, insults and even calling me names, don't you think an apology is appropriate and in effect even acquired? To answer your points in short, despite your rudeness: No, you did not clarify that you mean control and manipulation as a means to an end. But even if you would have, what does that involve? I was not quibbling about the definition of the word "MY". That is what you do! I have never counted them, but I probably have tens of thousands of animals and I feel very responsible for all of them. And yet I cannot say that I OWN them. I most certainly do not control them and it is impossible to manipulate them. Of course for you there should be no need to spell out how this can be. I was not aware of any AikiWeb moderation on you. But now that you despite this moderation and my offer to agree that we just disagree and leave it at that, have come back with more non-issues, I think I have to concede that I probably have been wrong all along. Contrary to more considerate people it takes apparently a lot of moderation, control and manipulation to get trough to immature, insensitive and dominating people. Warriors have left, I will leave the field to you. Tom |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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as far as aikido goes, there are folks who can get inside your head before physical contact made. you bowed in, right? already inside your head and made you do things. |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
I could be wrong but I believe that Mary was simply trying to say that how we respond to or feel in a situation may be impacted after training...that our response and perceptions are shaped by our experiences and that Aikido/Martial Arts training may change how we respond, view to or feel in a situation...however, that seem to have gotten "lost in translation." I've read it and re-read the thread and it seems that several words have triggered something beyond a healthy debate. The collective wealth of Aikido and Martial Arts experience represented here is better than that. When we enter into the realm of harsh words, we are not honoring our communion with one another. We are a community in Aikido practice after all. That is a sacred honor we share with each other. When we use harsh words with each other that violates our responsibility to one another to honor each other's Aikido/life journey. I am not saying that we shouldn't disagree or having various view points, that simply adds flavor to life. However, how do we practice Aikido inside the dojo if we don't practice it outside the dojo as we relate to and interact with each other? And how do we practice Aikido with each other if we don't practice it within our inner selves? We are all one Aikido community after all.....when we are harsh with each other, we are harsh with ourselves... Peace and light, Marium
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Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21761 |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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Anthony |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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I see that my efforts to communicate are failing. I was trying to poke some gentle fun at your rather grim determination to nail down definitions and create a consensus understanding. My attempted point was that we all hear and use words through our set of filters, no matter how we may strive to do otherwise, and that none of us has perfect diction (the use of "precision" and "accuracy" as interchangeable terms being one example of poor diction that sails right over the heads of most people). I agree that we have a responsibility in communication to use words in a mindful manner, but I don't believe that we can ever entirely discard our filters, or hope to use language that is so brilliantly clear that there can be no possible ambiguity or misinterpretation in how it is received. At a certain point, I believe, we must simply acknowledge that there's some slop in the process, and factor that into our efforts to communicate (giving and receiving) effectively. I'm sorry if my mild attempt at humor was offensive. |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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My view is that a word has a precise definition and conveys thus a particular concept. Many say how Japanese or whatever other language may have 'numerous' meanings for words but again I would say what's new? None more so than English, many definitions of a particular word and like you say each with a specific meaning. I wouldn't apply the term accuracy to a word so much but more to the statement which contains the word. Having said that I think we should allow for the opportunity for another to misunderstand what we have said for it will usually be based on them using a different definition for the word used. If I told you I am a bit worn out because I have been boxing 20 chickens what concept would you see? Someone no doubt would misunderstand and reply in what to me would then seem to be uncalled for manner. Thus a downward spiraling communication ensues. There again some may just be being facetious but generally it's the former. Knowing all this it is then even more important to hold to a rule of staying polite and not being rude. That's step one I would say. Anyway, it's all interesting stuff. In alignment with this thread....nothing to get annoyed about. Be happy about it, it's all good for it's a chance to learn. Peace.G. |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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Contrary to what people might derive from my posts, I have an active sense of humor. Anthony |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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I'm not so petty or small that I believe I can't improve myself. |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
Just to prove (and approve of) your point Graham, I'll make the following lame joke:
Aha! boxing 20 chickens! Now the secrets of Graham's style start to come out... |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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Peace.G. |
Re: Even at Boot Camp...no one can reach inside you and make you feel. Your feelings
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We grant authority to manipulate others when we feel that authority will better serve us. Adults have authority over children, police have authority over civilians, etc. This authority is granted, that implies we do hold some power to choose who can affect us. Some of us are better or worse at granting authority, for a myriad of reasons. Ultimately, we are all susceptible to some form of manipulation - that is why Super Bowl ads cost like $1,000,000/minute or something crazy... |
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