Increasing Ground Awareness for Internal Strength
I couldn't resist grabbing the first post in the new ghetto -- ahem -- forum. This is a serious post.
For fun, I managed to get some lessons with a respected bagua teacher over the last two Sundays. What is really surprising me is how sophisticated the ground awareness is in even the most basic practice taught to beginners. I have always tried to maintain an awareness of my feet connected to the ground in aikido, but the details that I was challenged to perceive and control were on another level. As a newbie to bagua, I can't really predict what it will do with my aikido practice, but it would impossible to not bring the feeling into the way I do aikido techniques and exercises. The assertion from bagua is that by concentrating on and steadfastly developing the lower part of your body (knees on down) it is possible to develop significant improvement in internal strength. To be clear, it's not just developing an awareness, but an ability. Some detail on the basic practice is available here. Are there any other aikido people that have experimented with this kind of internal training? I would love to hear your experiences. |
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Shioda talked about it a lot, and quite clearly, as in "In order to generate Kokyu you must stand as if you are making your big toe sink into the surface of the ground." - he often spoke about the importance of bringing power from the ground. There's a video clip somewhere where he says it straight out, hesitates, and then changes the subject. ;) Ueshiba spoke about it in very classical Chinese terms, Heaven, Earth and Man. The basic model, using the same terms that Chinese arts to describe power from the ground, in the same contexts. Daito-ryu folks talk about it too, as Keisetsu Yoshimaru points out in this article, so I guess we know how it got to Ueshiba. Yukiyoshi Sagawa, of course, thought that building the lower body and the legs particularly was important. I've heard two of the senior Japanese students of Seigo Yamaguchi talk about the importance of keeping your intent on the bottom of your feet, for the same reasons. But...here's an interesting story as kind of a thought experiment: Mayor General Masatoshi Matsunaga asked Sokaku Takeda at a seminar "Is Aiki possible if there is nothing (like the ground, or the floor) supporting your body?". Takeda has 5 or 6 soldiers lift him on their shoulders - you've probably seen similar demonstrations, this is the one where the people lifting all collapse and end up pinned. in the case of this story, the person on the body apparently ended up fainting. So...the ground power is an important thing, but not the only thing. Of course, it's still nothing to sneeze at. :D Best, Chris |
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I don't believe it. Not without some sort of collusion, conscious or unconscious. Chris, what do you think would be occurring in such a situation? |
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Greg |
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I have met a number of aikido people who are currently incorporating the internal work of I Liq Chuan, which stresses the concept of power from the ground. Students start working with that from the get-go, and learn how to manage it through the kuas (don't know the Japanese term for "kua"), tanden and meimon.
If I am not mistaken, I Liq Chuan has an ancestral connection to a version of Bagua/Pakua. |
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It's one of those things that's done, IMO, because it looks good for demonstrations, and because it shows something specific (nothing wrong with with that). I wouldn't take it for a practical combat method, but that doesn't mean that it's "fake" either. Anyway, he's showing (IMO) what happens when forces come into contact with a body conditioned for Aiki, and a somewhat more sophisticated relationship with the ground. Cady - IIRC correctly the connection between ILC (which comes mostly from Southern arts) and Bagua (which is more of a Northern art) is kind of hazy, one of those things that may or may not have happened. Best, Chris |
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Thanks, Chris. Even the ILC "bio" states that its history is cryptic. :)
Check out the ninth post, in particular, on this thread on Rum Soaked Fist: http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12702 That's probably about as much as is known about a bagua connection. |
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Some of the very basic tai sabaki in aikido are great methods for practicing the fundamentals of "ground awareness" if you have been shown how to train the ground/gravity/you components (there's more considerations, but those are important to start with).
For example - in funekogi undo, how you are opening and closing your body, how purely you have a connection inside your body from the feet through the fingers (and up out the top of your head, for that matter), how you manage the external forces acting on you (ground/gravity) as you move through the shape of the exercise - these will all impact 1) How you express these considerations as you move 2) How you feel to someone else when they touch you. I've recently started to look at irimi-tenkan with renewed interest from a training/expression perspective and there's some interesting stuff there. But that said, I think you have to understand how the very basics work before you can get the benefit of doing them through an aikido form or technique. |
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Hello Chris,
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Could you or perhaps anyone else, please, correct me or elaborate on this? More than curious, Bernd |
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Best, Chris |
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If you and your supporters have agreed they won’t let go and you can one of them get to fall down, for example, the others might follow up (down) quite easily. But that’s not what I am at here. Best Bernd |
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Sam Chin, in various media and in person, talks about how ILC has significantly evolved since his move to the U.S. He acknowledges the art's history and connection to more traditional Chinese arts through his father, but puts a premium on presenting ILC as a modern, well-codified IP/IS system that does not directly owe its existence to any given predecessor art. |
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Best, Chris |
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then it would be useless in a surprise attack like is hypnosis and I couldn't see it as a good example to show a worthy principle of inner power. Have you ever trained on ice? It's a difficult thingand it's certainly of advantage to feel your weight in the downside of your feet. But lets take on a little idealistic view. Lets suppose you trained your body in the right manner to the limits and you had gained that great (inner) power. Equally, because of your good training in in-yo, you were able to balance this with utmost responsibility. Then aikido, as the expression of your aiki , probably would become a wonderful way not to injure your partners but rather give them excellent workout and a healthy exercise. You wouldn't have to create any further settings or do anything artificial, you would just be like that, except (and in common with) that you had to be very careful with your partners. Problems occur IMO as soon as we take aikido as the road to aiki. Then naturally, things tend to become more or less artificial, of course, because the difficult thing then is to do it without tricks Best, Bernd |
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Best, Chris |
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Yes, that is certainly true. I was only casually mentioning the historic references themselves, because the OP mentioned that he is pursuing IP via bagua. |
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A couple of years ago, a local museum staged an Asian arts extravaganza that included a kungfu troupe whose piece de resistance was having 20 audience members line up to push on one of the troupe performers.You know... each guy pushes against the shoulders of the guy in front of him, and the one in the front of the line actually has his hands on the kungfu guy. They couldn't budge him. The crowd loved it! Would they have been as impressed to see one guy pushing? ;) |
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In the case of the man held up by several others -- it works in two distinct ways I have seen. One works by driving a spiral moment -- altering his point of support to drive a spiral wave around their support base and a resulting torque that eventually racks them twisting off their collective support bases. The other uses a more linear oscillation that -- like sloshing water back and forth in a shallow basin -- eventually overruns the containing boundary of their support. The man above just drives the top of the supports in resonance against their fixed bases -- just like pumping a child's swing -- but inverted - They have no inherent limit boundary for dynamic stability like the swing does (the suspending ropes or chains) . Same basic principle is in play in the jo "trick".. ,, instances of applied shear across the perpendicular of the line of support and the inability of the supporters to actively coordinate their resisting support. In the case of the jo trick it is relatively linear projection and retraction oscillation that results in a driven torque oscillation (like ude furi) applied to the base support of the men holding the jo, which also builds in successive waves - at least as Ueshiba is seen doing it. FWIW. |
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I mentioned hypnosis to express more explicitly the degree of uselessness I attribute to those multiple Uke demonstrations (to my pursuit of inner power) in the context of budo. I tried to express a personal opinion. And I tried to point to the difference in the approach to inner power between Tohei in his aikido compared to Ueshiba M. or may be Sagawa or Takeda S. in Daito Ryu Then I tried to express that in my opinion the curriculum of aikido probably is not the road to aiki, but that aikido nevertheless can be a wonderful tool to express inner power. I may have been carried away a bit here. I'm but a bloody newbie in his very first attempts --ever - to try and take part in these discussions. All that may be well over my head. So please, bear with me. Feel free to correct me, whenever my choice of words, the tone or the content may be inappropriate or not to the point, so that I can learn and grow. Thank you for your patience. Bernd |
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This attracts the ones seeking to have power and keeps away the ones looking for a fight, so it has some "martial" value. BTW, there's a clip of Ryusei Saigusa (Yoshinkan) performing various of these "tricks", including being raised by various uke and the group collapsing under him. |
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