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-   -   Poor posture seems to be on the rise. (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18985)

Chicko Xerri 11-22-2010 04:35 AM

Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Posture needs improvement.
Why is it that today there are so many pics and video showing high level Aikidoka, Japanese and Westerners with obvious poor posture during the execution of even the most basic of techniques. Understanding of Timing and Distance has obviously been poorly stressed. Where are the teachers,(Shihan) supposedly overseeing and keeping the Foundations of O'sensei in tact. I feel that today some are riding high on the efforts of those true Great Aikido masters of the past.
If I have noticed this obvious trend, others must be seeing the same. Poor posture leads to exaggerations, leading to impurities in the Mind and Body. These impurities are not consistent with Aiki and will effect poor outcomes in the future.

oisin bourke 11-22-2010 05:57 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
I can think of three reasons:

Sedentary lifestyles: All day stuck in front of the computer. in the car etc.

The rise in obesity.

Cultural factors. I believe many people, especially in western countries, (unless they have regular access to a high level teacher) aren't even aware of what "good posture is. I certainly wasn't when I started out.

Tim Ruijs 11-23-2010 02:04 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Many do not look beyond the techniques, but get stuck there and sometimes find use in exaggeration to 'progress'. That proper ma-ai, fluent motion and posture are then lost is often disregarded. Or worse, not understood at all.

Working with arms improves many aspects of the Aikidoka amongst which is posture. But I know a fair amount of dojos that never work with arms (tanto excepted)....

The biggest problem is often they simply do not know any better. Their teacher probably does not know any better either (else he'd better make an effort to improve his students, right?).

So how to break this vicious circle....

guest1234567 11-23-2010 02:13 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
I only can tell you how we are training, our teacher does almost every day exercises to make our posture stronger, sometimes self defence techniques, ground techniques from jiujitsu, very much legs training doing that uke must move his legs more than usually. All this exercises are complements to normal aikido techniques, and they work, The generall posture of people in our dojo is much stronger comparing it in last seminar for example with people from other dojos. So maybe teachers must not only teach aikido techniques but do some complementary exercises.

miser 11-23-2010 10:22 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
I remember in the beginning my sensei always mentioned it if he saw me ending on poor posture, now it's something I check myself for automatically. Once you know what good posture is, it's up to you to consistently check for it. As you improve you might not have to so much, but it's always there.

As for shihans, I've not trained with any that I noticed had poor posture.

kewms 11-23-2010 10:53 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
If uke is really attacking, posture defects will reveal themselves pretty quickly.

Katherine

sakumeikan 11-23-2010 11:09 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Chicko Xerri wrote: (Post 268644)
Poor posture seems to be on the rise.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posture needs improvement.
Why is it that today there are so many pics and video showing high level Aikidoka, Japanese and Westerners with obvious poor posture during the execution of even the most basic of techniques. Understanding of Timing and Distance has obviously been poorly stressed. Where are the teachers,(Shihan) supposedly overseeing and keeping the Foundations of O'sensei in tact. I feel that today some are riding high on the efforts of those true Great Aikido masters of the past.
If I have noticed this obvious trend, others must be seeing the same. Poor posture leads to exaggerations, leading to impurities in the Mind and Body. These impurities are not consistent with Aiki and will effect poor outcomes in the future.

Hello Chicko,
Would you care to name someone/some teachers [not a beginner ] who
you classify as having poor posture?Most high level? [please define high level] guys I know are ok in most of the elements you mention ie
Posture, Timing , Distancing etc.
Cheers, Joe..

Chicko Xerri 11-23-2010 06:19 PM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 268678)
Hello Chicko,
Would you care to name someone/some teachers [not a beginner ] who
you classify as having poor posture?Most high level? [please define high level] guys I know are ok in most of the elements you mention ie
Posture, Timing , Distancing etc.
Cheers, Joe..

Joe I dont want to be rude or impolite or cruel by giving names. But I am noticing High Level even 7 and 8th dan Shihan, Japanese and Western. Name is not necessary, their Image is obvious. People must View and decide for themselves. I am only making an observation that others should be aware of. Kind Regards.

Janet Rosen 11-23-2010 06:46 PM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Chicko Xerri wrote: (Post 268704)
Joe I dont want to be rude or impolite or cruel by giving names. But I am noticing High Level even 7 and 8th dan Shihan, Japanese and Western. Name is not necessary, their Image is obvious. People must View and decide for themselves. I am only making an observation that others should be aware of. Kind Regards.

OK, so you've put it out here for the purposes of discussion.... but if you are just wanting to toss out a complaint without having a discussion about the specifics, or some constructive thoughts about how to correct this, why bother to bring it up? I'm genuinely puzzled about your intent.

Chicko Xerri 11-23-2010 06:59 PM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 268705)
OK, so you've put it out here for the purposes of discussion.... but if you are just wanting to toss out a complaint without having a discussion about the specifics, or some constructive thoughts about how to correct this, why bother to bring it up? I'm genuinely puzzled about your intent.

If I dont report what I see then others may not become aware. Discussion often distorts the intention of others. We need only observe to to determine how to change ourselves. I have no right to dictate to anyone.
I only need to feel the intent of others with a gentle mind and aim for a possitive outcome.
Best Regards intended.

mathewjgano 11-23-2010 07:19 PM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

We need only observe to to determine how to change ourselves.
Hi Chicko,
I think there's more to it than this or it wouldn't be an issue.
I can understand not wanting to use names. Perhaps we should discuss what constitues good posture as well as, perhaps, what you're specifically noticing.
I know I personally have some bad postural habits from driving and sitting at a computer so much. It's always interesting to me how much better I feel when I focus on better posture (which to me means extending up through the crown and down through the perinium, with knees slightly bent during standing). What do you tend to focus on to achieve good posture?

dps 11-23-2010 07:35 PM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Bad posture equals bad balance equals bad movement equals bad Aikido.

Example of good posture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPhG6XA2fL8

dps

kewms 11-23-2010 08:37 PM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Chicko Xerri wrote: (Post 268707)
If I dont report what I see then others may not become aware. Discussion often distorts the intention of others.

Poor posture is pretty obvious to anyone who cares to look closely. It's even more obvious if uke attacks with intent. If a senior instructor's students are not encouraged to attack with intent, then that instructor has more problems than just his posture, and should probably be avoided.

Katherine

Mark Peckett 11-24-2010 04:41 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
One of my t'ai chi teachers said to regard your legs and pelvis as a table, and your upper body as a vase filled with water; in most cases, it is important not to spill the water!

sakumeikan 11-24-2010 06:48 PM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Katherine Derbyshire wrote: (Post 268717)
Poor posture is pretty obvious to anyone who cares to look closely. It's even more obvious if uke attacks with intent. If a senior instructor's students are not encouraged to attack with intent, then that instructor has more problems than just his posture, and should probably be avoided.

Katherine

Poor posture may well be easy to spot in lower ranks but Chicko is claiming to observe poor p[osture within the Shihan level .While I havent met all of the 7th Dan Shihan over a 40 year plus of Aikido training with Aikikai Shihan[I wont bore you with names suffice to say these were/are reputable teachers] I must say I saw no evidence which supports Chickos assertion that bad posture is prevalent amongst 7th dan Shihan.
Maybe there is an odd old timer,who may not be as willow like as in his youth but even these guys are good for their age.
A few million ukemis does have tendency to make you shuffle after being hammered over a period of time.Not counting the normal wear and tear of everyday life.
Maybe in my youth I leapt around like Errol Flynn,with wonderful posture[I wish] now I
move more like a zombie.[Just joking!!]
Joe.

guest1234567 11-25-2010 02:04 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
The two 7th Dan Shihan I know and went to their seminars, have a very strong posture. I didn't observe any Shihan with a poor posture, Anyway you cannot believe anybody has a poor posture only from viewing a video, you can say it if you trained with that shihan and verify it by yourself.

Dazzler 11-25-2010 05:39 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Carina Reinhardt wrote: (Post 268826)
, Anyway you cannot believe anybody has a poor posture only from viewing a video,.

I disagree here Carina. I trust my own eyes.

SeiserL 11-25-2010 06:15 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
While I cannot prove/disprove a personal observation and generalization, I would certainly agree that posture/structure/alignment is important and something we all need to be mindful of.

Tim Ruijs 11-25-2010 06:25 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
We need only observe to to determine how to change ourselves.
Very true indeed. But it demands the observer to be true to himself and obviously make the observation in the first place ;)

guest1234567 11-25-2010 06:31 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Daren Sims wrote: (Post 268835)
I disagree here Carina. I trust my own eyes.

do you have an example?

sakumeikan 11-25-2010 06:53 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 268837)
While I cannot prove/disprove a personal observation and generalization, I would certainly agree that posture/structure/alignment is important and something we all need to be mindful of.

Mr Seiser,
Very well said. A posture which stable, well balanced is extremely important.While you must maintain fluidity of movement, a sense of being rooted like tree is very important.Rather than use upper body strength throw/pin Uke [a common fault ] Tori ideally should generate power by using the lower hip region and keeping the feet firmly planted on the mat especially the rear leg.A bit like the type of application of power if you ever have to push a car with a flat battery in a bump start.
Cheers, Joe.

Dazzler 11-25-2010 06:58 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Carina Reinhardt wrote: (Post 268844)
do you have an example?

This morning when I looked out of the window it seemed to be frosty. When I went outside it was cold and there was as I suspected ice on my car....
so I was right to trust my eyes.

sakumeikan 11-25-2010 09:17 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Daren Sims wrote: (Post 268846)
This morning when I looked out of the window it seemed to be frosty. When I went outside it was cold and there was as I suspected ice on my car....
so I was right to trust my eyes.

Hi Dazzler,
I bet you flummoxed the guy who asked for an example of your awareness /observational skills by sending him this reply.Your answer is short /accurate and to the point.No metaphysical crap involved.What a shame.Funny my observations today match yours[ maybe there is some psychic connection /telepathic communication taking place?Or is it simply the fact that there is 4 inches of snow in each of our neighbourhoods
Cheers, Joe.

Dazzler 11-25-2010 09:38 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 268856)
Hi Dazzler,
I bet you flummoxed the guy who asked for an example of your awareness /observational skills by sending him this reply.Your answer is short /accurate and to the point.No metaphysical crap involved.What a shame.Funny my observations today match yours[ maybe there is some psychic connection /telepathic communication taking place?Or is it simply the fact that there is 4 inches of snow in each of our neighbourhoods
Cheers, Joe.

Hi Joe

Was just trying to be humorous really..I think most people that have been around a little while can see poor posture even more so in a video than in a photograph.

This chap for instance has seriously compromised his Shisei....

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Review...notre_dame.htm

D

Michael Hackett 11-25-2010 09:43 AM

Re: Poor posture seems to be on the rise.
 
But he did move from the hara to perform his daily tasks.......


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