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Walter Martindale 10-09-2009 12:45 AM

Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Ok, so, I've done the bad and changed topics on the women's obi thread, so...

Most Aikido dojo I've visited feature people with gi whose sleeves have been either manufactured short or rolled up to mid-forearm or higher.

Back in the 70s Judo changed its rules to require that the sleeve come all the way to the wrist, and be big enough to grab, and now most gi available are "modern" judo gi. When I started judo the gi could be shorter, and some people had their gi tailored to be very tight to the forearm to reduce people's ability to gain a grip.

Back to the point - these rolled up or shorter sleeves are done so people can grab a bare forearm/wrist in katate--dori or kosa-dori (spelling?). Way back, though, I stopped rolling or pulling up my sleeves after my sensei pulled the sleeve back down and gripped around the sleeve. I can't remember the discussion at the time but I THINK it hinged on "out in the street, your sleeves will be down."

So - why do we roll up our gi sleeves?

Walter

grondahl 10-09-2009 01:18 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Out in the street I usually don´t wear a dogi at all.

Btw: Most of my dogi have sleeves short enough for uke being able to grab single handed grips without grabbing the sleeve. If my sleeves were to long I would rather cut them of at an appropriate length rather than folding them.

Quote:

Walter Martindale wrote: (Post 242546)
Way back, though, I stopped rolling or pulling up my sleeves after my sensei pulled the sleeve back down and gripped around the sleeve. I can't remember the discussion at the time but I THINK it hinged on "out in the street, your sleeves will be down."


Edward 10-09-2009 01:45 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
It's a matter of personal preference. I prefer my sleeves rather short so that they don't impede my arm movements, especially in techniques such as shomenuchi ikkyo. Especially that I live in a hot humid country and the gi tends to cling to the body after just a few minutes of training.

ChristianBoddum 10-09-2009 02:12 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
The tsuka gets caught in the sleeve when doing Aihanmi kt. Nikyo
(with ken).

crbateman 10-09-2009 03:28 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
I shorten my sleeves to get them out of the way... I already have enough trouble tripping on my hakama... :o :D

Carl Thompson 10-09-2009 08:31 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
There is a tradition in some dojos of rolling up the sleeve of an affected arm to indicate injury. Also, if you are practicing sodeguchi-dori (grab to the cuff), shortened sleeves could be a problem.

DonMagee 10-09-2009 09:47 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Quote:

Walter Martindale wrote: (Post 242546)
Ok, so, I've done the bad and changed topics on the women's obi thread, so...

Most Aikido dojo I've visited feature people with gi whose sleeves have been either manufactured short or rolled up to mid-forearm or higher.

Back in the 70s Judo changed its rules to require that the sleeve come all the way to the wrist, and be big enough to grab, and now most gi available are "modern" judo gi. When I started judo the gi could be shorter, and some people had their gi tailored to be very tight to the forearm to reduce people's ability to gain a grip.

Back to the point - these rolled up or shorter sleeves are done so people can grab a bare forearm/wrist in katate--dori or kosa-dori (spelling?). Way back, though, I stopped rolling or pulling up my sleeves after my sensei pulled the sleeve back down and gripped around the sleeve. I can't remember the discussion at the time but I THINK it hinged on "out in the street, your sleeves will be down."

So - why do we roll up our gi sleeves?

Walter

That's the exact opposite argument that no-gi bjj proponents make. They say on the street you won't have a gi to grab onto and most likely be in shorts and a t-shirt.

Janet Rosen 10-09-2009 09:56 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
"on the street your sleeves will be down" - I don't often say this about somebody's sensei, but how silly! WHAT MONTH IS IT? One third of the year I'm living in tank tops and sleeveless dresses. In the winter I'm in a honkin' big lined raincoat. In the dojo, my sleeves go up or down depending on one thing only: the temperature in the dojo.

Janet Rosen 10-09-2009 09:58 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Oh and then there's the opposite - a dojo I visited where I was told in whispers "OH NO don't roll up your gi sleeve, it's a terrible expression of disrespect!!!"
I sooo love "orthodoxy" in dressing rituals....

Linda Eskin 10-11-2009 05:30 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
A Japanese friend (lives here, but originally from Japan) saw my test video last night, and complimented me on the (short) length of my sleeves. He said in Japan the sleeves are typically made shorter, so mine was more traditional. I'm not terribly interested in tradition, but I sure don't like rolling over lumpy, rolled-up thick sleeves, so when I ordered my medium-weight one from Bu Jin I measured the rolled-up sleeves on my heavyweight one, and ordered with that length. Love it. :-)

Randy Sexton 10-11-2009 06:05 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
I have had my sleeves on my Dogi cut and sewn approximately mid-forearm. In the past I have caught my Bokken in my sleeve many times and now that does not happen. It gets hot working out and the shorter sleeves help keep me cooler. On the street people may or may not have on a jacket or shirt. Also, if you grab the cloth it may tear so I avoid grabbing cloth. I grab the wrist till I feel bone and have a secure grip. I also note the majority of Sensei I have met wear their Dogi sleeves about mid-forearm. I also much prefer the look rather than having long sleeves dangling down or seeing them rolled up which always seem to come down partially and look sloppy, in my opinion.

Doc Sexton

Adam Huss 10-11-2009 10:02 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
I always just thought it was a difference of tournament cut vs (non tournament cut?). I'm not really sure exactly what that means, and I used to compete in karate tournaments. As for respect, I try to always remember to roll my sleeves down when bowing in/out of class. I don't think its anything that is enforced, but I guess I do it for my own practice of resishiki (sp?).

ninjaqutie 10-11-2009 10:23 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
I pretty much always roll my sleeves up (except when the dojo is freezing). I find it easier for my parners to grab me, weapons and hands don't get caught in my sleeves and I just don't feel like my motions are impeded. Often I go straight into a weapons class or iaido after aikido and I just find it easier to move with my sleeves rolled up. Another thing is, sometimes our sensei or sempai will try to show something in particular about the arm or wrist. If your sleeves are up already, then one of you isn't trying to hold up your sleeve while trying not to get in the other person's way. I used to get bumps and bruises on my forearms from face falls because my sleeves were a huge bump of fabric, but those don't seem to happen much anymore.

Carsten Möllering 10-12-2009 04:22 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Quote:

Linda Eskin wrote: (Post 242569)
... in Japan the sleeves are typically made shorter, so mine was more traditional.

That's the point.

Carsten

Peter Goldsbury 10-12-2009 06:02 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Hello Linda,

Beware of invented traditions.

I have lived here for years and have found that sleeves are no longer or shorter here than anywhere else.

All my aikido equipment comes from Iwata, the people who supply Doshu with his. There is a very nice elderly lady there, who really runs the shop and they will tailor everything to individual requirements.

To me this thread is a no-brainer. If the sleeves are too long, they are either shortened or rolled up.

I have fond memories of the late Kanai Mitsunari Sensei, who always seemed to wear a karate keikogi with long sleeves. (This was in the old NE Aikikai Dojo, near Central Square in Cambridge.) When Kanai Sensei initiated an attack from his uke, in addition to brushing his hair from his face, he would always lift up his sleeve to indicate the required katate-dori attack.

PAG

Quote:

Linda Eskin wrote: (Post 242569)
A Japanese friend (lives here, but originally from Japan) saw my test video last night, and complimented me on the (short) length of my sleeves. He said in Japan the sleeves are typically made shorter, so mine was more traditional. I'm not terribly interested in tradition, but I sure don't like rolling over lumpy, rolled-up thick sleeves, so when I ordered my medium-weight one from Bu Jin I measured the rolled-up sleeves on my heavyweight one, and ordered with that length. Love it. :-)


Linda Eskin 10-12-2009 07:50 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Quote:

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: (Post 242585)
Hello Linda,

Beware of invented traditions.

I have lived here for years and have found that sleeves are no longer or shorter here than anywhere else.

Thank you, Peter :) That is why I just reported it as something my friend said, and not The Way Things Are. That might have been 30 years ago, a regional or particular-art thing, or maybe he just hung around an odd dojo. Sorry if it came across as reporting "how it really is in the Old Country." I should've been more clear.

Agreed. The heck with tradition (on some level). Do what works. (Does that mean I can wear sweats to class now?) ;)

Walter Martindale 10-12-2009 02:22 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 242567)
"on the street your sleeves will be down" - I don't often say this about somebody's sensei, but how silly! WHAT MONTH IS IT? One third of the year I'm living in tank tops and sleeveless dresses. In the winter I'm in a honkin' big lined raincoat. In the dojo, my sleeves go up or down depending on one thing only: the temperature in the dojo.

He may not have said exactly "on the street your sleeves will be down" but it may have been more along the lines of - if someone's got long sleeves, they ain't gonna roll them up for you, and you ain't likely to take the time to slide your hand inside their sleeve to get to their forearm - you'll be dealing with what's presented... (the "ain't" is mine - he's got much better grammar than me)

I guess the point was that if you're in a jacket, shirt, or raincoat (or where I come from, down-lined parka), you're not going to roll it up for someone to grab. Nor are you going to expect that someone you're needing to control will take his/her coat sleeve out of the way. If you're training or "in situation" on a hot, sweaty day with sunblock and whatever all over the person you're "working" with, you're not going to wipe your arm (or his/hers) to provide a better grip - you'll end up dealing with whatever you get presented to you. Why not practice with whatever's there, too?

We never know what to wear - we had snow on Friday, and a t-shirt day on Sunday - oh, and that was "outside" - the roof kept the dojo slightly warmer than outside on the cold day, and slightly cooler than outside on the warm day... Love coaching rowing on a bicycle in the snow - not.
Cheers,
Walter

Akako110 10-25-2009 07:13 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
I prefer to have my sleeves rolled up so that people can easily grab my wrist and get a good tight grip.....

But in the beginning I just rolled up my sleeves because my senpai rolled up his and I thought it was the coolest thing.....
Quote:

Life is growth. If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead.

-Morihei Ueshiba

Arashi Kumomura 10-26-2009 01:59 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
I belive techniques are generally easier on a bare wrist. Also, what you'll usually encounter in a combat situation won't be someone wearing sleeves that are as thick as those on a typical gi.

I think, also, that having something like a thick sleeve can impede truly learning a technique. Nikkyo, for instance, I believe works just slightly differently if there's a big sleeve between someone's hand and the other person's wrist area, possibly compromising the technique.

If you can, it would be best to learn with and without the sleeves in the way.

Those are just some of my quick thoughts on the matter. : )

Carl Thompson 10-26-2009 02:43 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Quote from another thread:

Quote:

David Soroko wrote: (Post 243939)
Saito Morihiro sensei demonstrates some techniques in kihon from sode guchi dori: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXKg7XBNaZU


ramenboy 10-26-2009 09:36 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Quote:

Tara Skarbek wrote: (Post 243959)
... in the beginning I just rolled up my sleeves because my senpai rolled up his and I thought it was the coolest thing.....

hahahaha me too. and that was the end of that story!

but now that i think of it, i've got alot more to worry about on the mat than whether or not my sleeves are up or down.

Tinyboy344 10-26-2009 10:27 AM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Quote:

Jerome Cervantes wrote: (Post 243990)
hahahaha me too. and that was the end of that story!

but now that i think of it, i've got alot more to worry about on the mat than whether or not my sleeves are up or down.

Same here:D It was cool until I got mat burn at one seminar. I hate the canvas covered mats

Chris Farnham 10-26-2009 09:57 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
I tend to roll up my sleeves in general; not just my gi sleeves. I invariably roll up my sleeves after five minutes whenever I wear a long sleeve shirt. That being said, I usually roll up out of personal comfort but I have been in dojos where they said not to so when in Rome...

Ketsan 11-04-2009 06:24 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Our dojo is the only one in our association that rolls its sleeves up and I started it. I don't like the feeling of baggy sleeves dangling off my wrists so I roll my sleeves up and I started doing this when I started Aikido. Since I'm senior it seems that everyone has copied me because nearly everyone in the dojo rolls their sleeves up.

The same thing happened with t-shirts and tenugui. :D

Kevin Leavitt 11-04-2009 07:20 PM

Re: Rolling Up Sleeves
 
Haven't really paid much attention to it, but I think most folks in my dojo roll their's up. Mine are down and typically within tolerance to Judo/BJJ standards with a Judo Gi. My reason is, I compete and I am just simply used to it this way these days.

I haven't found it to be a issue either way as I can grab the sleeve or the wrist depending on what I want.

If you are really grappling, you don't want the sleeves rolled for safety reasons, it is easy to get fingers caught in them and torqued, so if you are practicing very hard and want short sleeves, it is probably better to shorten them vice roll.


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