Re: Onegaishimasu
 

Hi Don,

You are most welcome. I'm glad I could be of help.
I've just come back from Japan, so my re-reply is late, too!

In Aiki,

Ethan

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

I have heard it explained variously as "let's begin" or "I am in your hands". I have also heard it could be inferred as "if you would be so kind".

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

I say "onegai shimasu" when I meet people, order food, do my banking, buy a beer or a train pass. A versatile expression eh?

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

Naruhodoo.....
:)
Walter

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

In our dojo, we teach our beginning kids to say "oh my gosh a mouse" before further confusing them with the correct pronunciation. Seeing the more adult version above made me smile. I haven't heard "doitashimashita" at our dojo, so while "Don't touch my mustache" also made me smile, it didn't have the personal effect.

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

You going Aikikai? Just translate it to "May I have this dance?" :D

edit:
Darn, this thread is old! well...

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

Hey! I'm just another Budo Bum...and not even a very good one! ;)

B,
R (miss ya round here...)

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

hey ron

this is an oooold thread. i'm sure you've had your fill of answers in the last 3 years!!!!1 hahaha

anyways, here's another one. real simple. 'negai' = favor. shimasu = to do. '0' is an honorific term.

basically, you're just saying 'please do me a favor.' one of the many japanese ways of saying 'please'

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

I am familiar with saying onegaishimasu whenever I start to train with a new partner, too. It is not standard procedure in the organisation I train with, but I picked it up at seminars of other organisations and like it very much.
I have heard people reply simply "masu" in return. Is that correct or did I just not hear the rest? :)

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

[quote=Don J. Modesto;77199]I say it to whomever I'm training with as we begin; finishing, I say "Arigato Gozaimashita".[/quote}

Don,

That's the actual correct form.

That, I think, is a misunderstanding.

It's not generally considered presumptuous to thank someone after they've granted your request, but Japanese speakers may sometimes say "onegaishimasu" again, especially if the one who helped them threw in a comment or two that would enhance the thing they did for them. In that case, it comes closer to the meaning of "yoroshiku onegaishimasu," which is sort of like saying, "Please keep looking out for me," or "Please keep doing this sort of good thing for me."

Non-native speakers can easily miss the thanks among the flurry of words that might surround any exchange between Japanese. But they might note hearing "onegaishimasu" again and get the idea that you say it both before and after you get what you want.

A little further on that, "Onegaishimasu," literally means "I am making a humble request," or "I am asking for your help."

In casual settings, it can be shortened to "onegai," usually after a request has been made a couple of times already. In that case, it translates more or less to "I'm asking you!" and is rather insistent. It's not likely to be heard in the dojo.

But I think it's important for aikidoka to understand the everyday meaning of words to appreciate the deeper meanings of "martial" words. Thinking the two can be separated loses a lot of depth in meaning and leads to people approaching aikido as a kind of cult.

Best wishes.

David

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

My wife says it about the third time she repeats a request. Would you do that?

Would you do that thing I asked?

ONEGAI!!!

Then, yes, it's do it or you'll never hear the end of it! :D

David

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

I was rear ended sitting at a red light a few weeks ago on my way to work in the morning. We both pulled into a 7/11 and this young guy with dyed hair and a rumpled suit gets out, stumbling and mumbling, clearly drunk. I called the cops and in the TWENTY minutes it took them to arrive, the guy must have said "onegai," literally 100 times. He wanted me to call the cops back up and say that no, I made a mistake and there was no need to come. He kneeled on the pavement and put his forehead into the gravel at least 20 times. He finally started crying.

Two cops pulled up on bicycles and took a report and gave him a breathalyzer. He was just under the limit. He also explained that he had worked all night and was just driving home ie, he was tired and that was the cause for rear ending me. The cops gave him a ticket and let him go. He GOT INTO HIS CAR and DROVE AWAY!

ONEGAI! Get me outta this country!

Sorry,
Charles

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

You know of course what being over the limit can cost you now. I'ld be on the gravel too?

300,000 Yen for each adult in the car.

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

That's in addition to whatever sanctions his employer might have given him. At Toyota Motor Corporation, for example, a DWI is an immediate firing offense. You probably held his life/livelihood in your hands that night. Yeah, I'd be on the gravel, too.

Of course, he shouldn't be drinking and driving. OTOH, a young company man? Well, it may not have been easy to just say no...

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

Onegaeshimas is not unique to the dojo. Japanese people use it all the time when making requests. Usually, one person - the requester - says it. But in the dojo, typically, both say it. However, when I did Judo juniors would run up to seniors and shout it out. The first one to reach the senior was the one who got to train with them - usually, but not always, as sometimes, the senior would ignore them and choose someone else nearby. In this particular Judo class - in Japan - the seniors never said anything. In an Aikido context it might appear rude, but as I already mentioned above, it is actually the norm in society outside the dojo that only one person says it - the requester. I also saw other Judo dojos that operated as Aikido ones in this respect.

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

Hi Rupert,
it might be a difference in the view, who is the requestor. If you are working in a strong hierarchy, where the senior only eaches the junior and the junior only learns from the senior, probably only one has to ask for a favour.
I was told that the student asks for lectures and the (aikido) teacher asks for the students to learn from him. During practice, both should be learning from each other. That is probably the reason, why in aikido both ask for the favour train with the other. There are two requestors and consequently two "onegaishimasu".

regards Dirk

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

Further on the use of onegaishimasu: in the Ibaraki Shibu Dojo (Iwama Dojo), when a technique is demonstrated by the sensei, and after the sensei bows to his uke (saying "arigato gozaimashita"), the sensei then bows to the class and says "onegaishimasu" to the students. They say "onegaishimasu" in return. In many cases - in dojos - the sensei usually says "Hai, dozo" to the students after having shown the technique. In the Shibu Dojo the reigi saho shows, in my opinion, the wish of the sensei for the students to kindly receive the teaching that he has presented, and the students say "onegaishimasu" in the way of wishing to receive. I have especially seen Inagaki Sensei and Nemoto Sensei using this reigi saho.

In Aiki,

Ethan Weisgard

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

It's a fine line, but mashita kind of implies thank you for what you've done, whereas masu is thank you for what you will do or what you are doing. in reality, I would say regardless of the situation, people use masu, and they usually use mashita as a kind of saying goodbye. :hypno:

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

When we finish training with our partner, we thank each other for the training that we have done together by saying arigatogozaimashita. We change partners for each technique, so therefor we are finishing something, ergo the past tense form.

But the jury is definitely still out (and I think always will be!) regarding the use of -gozaimasu or-gozaimashita. I notice this more and more when I am in Japan, that some people thank others using one or the other form. I have even heard two people thanking a third party, with one using the past tense and the other the present. I heard store clerks consistantly using arigatogozaimasu when customers were leaving the establishment, whereas most of the time you hear the past tense form used when people are leaving the shop. Interesting!

In Aiki,

Ethan

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

Ethan's comment is right on the mark. And mashita / masu (past / present) endings - often it doesn't really matter in the moment, unless you are being specific.

Think English: would we really get into a discussion about say, 'See you', and 'See you later'. ??? You could imagine students English arguing about it: 'See you' is present, 'See you later' is future, but off course the reality is that both are fine. Like, who cares? Getting too specific leads away from understanding - kinda like ikkyo, right?

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

I really don't have a strong opinion on tenses in Japanese or English, except that it is obvious when one is correct or one is using an improper or slang form. Slang is a fine way to communicate at times, but being specific has it's place.

I think being more specific leads to greater understanding, not less. When is good enough, good enough, and when do we need to be more specific?

Regards,

Tarik

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

It can, but often it is overdone, which is why all the students of one school might do ikkyo one way, and all the students of another school might do it another, with both schools thinking their own to be correct and the other to be wrong. In this sense, being specific leads to self-delusion - and it is very, very common.

Being more specific should work, of course, but in martial arts it can be confounded by the human inquisitive element. We want answers, so teachers give them, and students believe them. I prefer to figure things out for myself.

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

I can think of at least 5 different ways to 'do ikkyo' without even beginning to rack my brains. All of them demonstrate the same specific principles. I guess it depends upon what you're being specific about, principles or techniques.

Comprehension is comprehension whether it is taught or self-discovered. All actual learning consists for varying proportions of both.

My experience is that people learn more quickly when they (and their teachers) are more specific about what it is they need to be learning. As with anything, this can be overdone and become confusing.

Regards,

Tarik

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

"Comprehension is comprehension whether it is taught or self-discovered. All actual learning consists for varying proportions of both."


Good idea.
One definition of the word 'comprehension' is; the capacity to include.

People do this in many ways ( as in, more than 2, unless you include 'realized' as part of self-discovered). Especially if they are interested in including 'mystery' which is a state rather than an answer.

Not to split hairs. Just to add to the concept.

Re: Onegaishimasu
 

I didn't read through the entire thread.

But, "onegaishimasu" has many, many meanings which vary depending on the context.

It basically means "please." But, depending on the situation, it can be interpreted as, "Please do this for me," or "Please teach me."