Joshua Landin wrote: (Post 332816)

Karl:

Your assertion that O-sensei avoided challenges is not credible. Why?

Because in order to teach budo in Japan during the 1920s and 1930s (when O-sensei started teaching), you *had* to be able to accept and defeat challenges, because he would have gotten them...all the time (people still cared about validation back then). If he didn't have the skills to back up his teachings and lost - or worse, if he "avoided" challenges as you claim, this would quickly become known and he would have lost his students and his dojo. Now, that didn't happen did it?

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: (Post 332820)

Then prove he had accepted challenges and defeated the challengers... BTW, what is your definition of 'challenge'?

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: (Post 332820)

Then prove he had accepted challenges and defeated the challengers... BTW, what is your definition of 'challenge'?

Mike Braxton wrote: (Post 332828)

The mear fact that he had well known martial arts from other arts validated him. Those guys attacked and lost so they became students. Thats how Osensei became a student of Takeda Sokaku. That's how my current sensei became a student of aikido. Doesn't take much of those in the know to know. In other words, game recognizes game.

Ellis Amdur wrote: (Post 263786)

I wish I could go into more detail - I cannot - but I am aware of one event when Ueshiba Morihei, at the height of his powers, was humbled by another martial artist. (No, I'm not talking about his first youthful encounter with Takeda Sokaku, or Sagawa Yukiyoshi's account of grabbing Ueshiba's arms and rendering him unable to move). For those who are curious, I will not say more

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: (Post 332832)

Your "proof" is nothing but mere speculation.

I can play that game too, look:

Ueshiba was "validated" because he has papers issued by Takeda Sokaku and had lots of influential contacts in the military and politics from his Omoto-kyo days, not even counting his relationship with right wing extremists. No one issued him a serious challenge.

Also, we are not going to ask about this:

(bold mine)

BTW, how your Sensei became a student of Aikido is interesting but that is not useful nor reliable data for an Ueshiba Morihei biography.

Mike Braxton wrote: (Post 332847)

People talked/interviewed their seniors or instructors who did the same with their predecessors.. The lucky few saw events with their own eyes. If you trust your senior then you'll take their word.