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towers1209
02-21-2006, 08:21 PM
Hi,

I was a student of Johnny Tenegra in the early 80's at the 2nd Floor dojo in Manila. I vaguely remember where the exact street is, but I am sure that it was close to Rizal Ave in downtown Manila.

I got my 6th kyu and stopped when life became a little complicated and busy.

Now, I am planning to get back to the mat again at New Jersey, USA.

As I mentioned in my Intro, I am now looking at Aikido with a different mindset. I now see it as a spiritual practice; and not just another martial arts or physical exercise. Reading back the old and new reference books that I have, I begin to recognize its language that once was inscrutable. (I currently invovled in the study and personal application of Buddhism/Taoism/Confucianism.)

But, before I even step into a dojo, I am researching and (re)learning as much as I can about the roots Aikido and I want to make sure that I have the proper (no-)mind set.

As I go down memory lane, and search the net for my old roots, I don't see much mention of Johnny Tenegra's name except for two websites -- a dojo website in the Philippines (which I cannot recall at this time, I lost the URL) and APOI CHIN WU ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION OF JORDAN (http://www.apoichinwu.com/sifu.htm).

Is Johnny Tenegra Manuel "Omar" Camar one and the same person? I really want to get to the bottom of this.

Much thanks to Philippine aikidokas who would like to reply and shed light to my little dilemma.

Thanks,
Loreto
:triangle: :square: :circle:

reyne caritativo
02-23-2006, 04:19 AM
hi there my friend, johnny tenegra sensei and omar kamar sensei are two different persons. omar kamar sensei is still active in aikido but regarding tenegra sensei, there's no news about his whereabouts. personally, i haven't met these two senseis but i think they were one of the pioneers of aikido here in the philippines. omar sensei started aikido in the mid or late 60's and tenegra sensei in the early 70's, based on what i've read in old martial magazines.

Jory Boling
02-23-2006, 06:30 AM
http://home.kimo.com.tw/kaohsiung_aikido/aikido.htm

Johnny Tenegra and aikido on yahoo search brought up this page. his name is about halfway down. can you read chinese?

towers1209
02-23-2006, 11:10 AM
http://home.kimo.com.tw/kaohsiung_aikido/aikido.htm

Johnny Tenegra and aikido on yahoo search brought up this page. his name is about halfway down. can you read chinese?

I am still a beginner Chinese reader. So I cannot understand what the web page is saying. I used Babel to translate the webpage from Chinese(Traditional) to English. It resulted into a very funny character-by-character translation.

e.g., . What I presume to be the "Philippine Aikido Propagation Association" has been translated by Babel as "Philippines gathers gas channel association" (LOL!!!!) :p

The webpage seems to be a year-to-year record of events of a Taiwanese Aikido dojo.

But, on the serious side. Is there anybody out there who could point me to the right direction?

How about "Bong Achas", anybody out there knows how I can reach him? I saw his name in Wikipedia (cool!) as one of the better known Philippine Aikidoka.

I know Bong from way back when. I met him through his elder sister -- who was one of my former engineering instructors and a black belt aikidoka who traded her hakama for a saintly habit. The latest information that I received is that she is now a Carmelite Mother Prioress.

Thanks, gan3 xie4, domo arigato, maraming salamat po...
:circle: :do:
Loreto

towers1209
02-23-2006, 02:08 PM
hi there my friend, johnny tenegra sensei and omar kamar sensei are two different persons. .... personally, i haven't met these two senseis but i think they were one of the pioneers of aikido here in the philippines. omar sensei started aikido in the mid or late 60's and tenegra sensei in the early 70's, based on what i've read in old martial magazines.
Thank you for your reply. But I distictly remember one of the blackbelts who assists in the dojo instruction called Johnny Tenegra, more than once, as Omar. And then at one point, I asked this senior student why Sensei Tenegra was called Omar. I got no reply. And from then on, he was called Sensei John or simply John. As opposed to Johnny, since there was another senior (blackbelt) aikidoka whose name was also Johnny.

It is interesting how memory works. I did not remember about (the other) Johnny until now.

Overall, whether John T and Omar are one and the same or not, really does not matter now. I am just taking a walk down memory lane.

It is time to move on now.

Loreto
:ai:

reyne caritativo
02-25-2006, 01:49 AM
hi there again. with regards to bong achas sensei, last thing i heard about him is, he is connected with nishio aikido under batobalani sensei.batobalani sensei was a direct student of the late shoji nishio shihan,the founder of nishio aikido.batobalani seinsei was based in the u.s. and at present he has a dojo in pangasinan here in the philippines, teaching nishio-style aikido and iaido. i was able to attend one of batobalani aka jun mateo sensei's seminars in pangasinan last 2004 but bong achas sensei was not there. i guess he's also inactive in aikido. with regards to P.A.P.A. or the Phillipine Association for the Propagation of Aikido, i think Tenegra sensei is not affiliated with that group, but one of it's high-ranking member, robert soliven sensei was a member of Tenegra sensei's group, the Manila Association for the Propagation of Aikido or M.A.S.P.A. But i think this group is not exsisting anymore.one more thing, about bong achas' sister which you've mentioned, i've seen her on the old martial art magazine which Tenegra sensei was featured. i think she's one of the senior students of Tenegra sensei. just for your memories. :)

towers1209
02-25-2006, 06:18 PM
hi there again. ...with regards to P.A.P.A. or the Phillipine Association for the Propagation of Aikido, i think Tenegra sensei is not affiliated with that group, but one of it's high-ranking member, Robert Soliven sensei was a member of Tenegra sensei's group, the Manila Association for the Propagation of Aikido or M.A.S.P.A. But i think this group is not exsisting anymore.one more thing, about bong achas' sister which you've mentioned, i've seen her on the old martial art magazine which Tenegra sensei was featured. i think she's one of the senior students of Tenegra sensei. just for your memories. :) Hi, there...
Your are right, Sensei Tenegra is not part of Phillipine Association for the Propagation of Aikido, but of Pilipinas Aikido Propagation Association, a different P.A.P.A.
Right now, I am looking at my Aikido certificate from 19th Dec, 1981-- it says
........Pilipinas Aikido Propagation Association
........National Aikido Headquarters, Manila, Philippines,
........Sole Representative of AikiKai Foundation,
........Aikido World Headquarters,
........Member, International Aikido Federation
with Johnny Tenegra as President/Founder and Getulio G. Castro as VP/Treas/Co-Founder. I've never met Getulio Castro, though. It has always been Johnny Tenegra that was on the dojo. I remember Sensei Tenegra as a soft-spoken person and don't know much of his personal life.

So now you will understand why I was tracing Sensei Tenegra's whereabouts.

I do not know about MASPA, but the gold-foil seal says "Manila Aikidokas & Sports Propagation Association -- Hombu Loyalist Group".

I am aware of Bong's sister, Ching (now Mother Prioress Rafaeli), as one of the senior students of Sensei Tenegra. I was training with her on the same PAPA dojo in 81-82.

If I remember right, Robert Soliven is the stocky guy of Chinese descent, and the one nicknamed Johnny. There is another one, a taller skinny guy, a close friend of Robert, that I am starting to remember (I cannot remember his name now, though) .

Any leads as to where Robert Soliven is? Internet search only reveals an old interview printed in Rapid Journal in 1997 -- Volume 2 Number 2 * Book 4 - 1997, Aikido: Path of Harmony and Energy (Interview with Robert Soliven) .Is Rapid Journal still an active magazine? I looked into its website and its webpages has 1996 copyright on them. SO, I do not know if it is an old page, the webmaster forgot to update it's site copyright.

Loreto
:triangle: :square: :circle:

Ritchie Martinez
05-05-2006, 10:50 AM
Hi,

I just want to give you a bit of info on Manuel 'Omar' Camar Sensei, 8th Dan. He is currently our Cheif Instructor and President at the Manila Aikido Club - Philippine Aikikai Headquarters, our GQ is located at Aurora Boulevard, Quiapo, Manila and have branches at Star Mall, EDSA cor. Shaw Blvd. and Metropolis Mall, Alabang, Muntinlupa. Camar Sensei also teaches at the Philippine Public Safety Colleges (PPSC) - Fort Bonifacio, Philippine National Police Academy (PNPA) - Silang, Cavite and other police training schools, whose names I forgot, here in the Philippines. I'm also definetly sure that Camar Sensei and Johnny Tenegra are two different people, I'll have to ask Camar Sensei who Johnny Tenegra is and if he became his student, or what relation he has with the Club. Anyway, here's some added info, it was Benjamin Guilarpe Sensei who brought Aikido to the Philippines in September 13, 1963 and named it the Manila Aikido Club, it gained the recognition of the World Aikido Headquarters, Tokyo, Japan in 1964. Come 1978, Guilarpe Sensei gave Camar Sensei full responsibility of the Club to date. The name Philippine Aikikai Headquarters was used when Camar Sensei went to Guam to teach Aikido, Camar Sensei continued to use that name until early last year. Towards the end of 2005, he announced during our Christmas party that he would be using the clubs original name, MANILA AIKIDO CLUB, hence, Manila Aikido Club - Philippine Aikikai Headquarters. I hope that this info will be of good help to you.

Richie Martinez

raul rodrigo
05-05-2006, 11:10 AM
Does Mr. Camar still maintain a connection with Aikikai Hombu? I don't recall meeting any Camar students at any of the recent visits by various Hombu shihan to Manila. And I don't recall any of them testing during the yudansha exams given by the Japanese. Of course, I could be mistaken.

raul rodrigo
05-05-2006, 11:18 AM
When the seal says "Hombu Loyalist Group," does that imply that this group stayed with Aikikai when Koichi Tohei and his Philippine student Ernie Talag broke off from the Aikikai in the 1970s? This is the only reason I can think of for a 1981 Philippine Aikido certificate to say this.

Ritchie Martinez
05-06-2006, 12:42 AM
Hi Raul,

Yes! Camar Sensei (Manila Aikido) still has connections with the Aikikai in Japan. As for your 2nd question, the reason why you don't meet any Camar students during Shihan visits here in the Philippines is that none of us ever goes, and if ever someone does, he or she is just in the background as an observer, we like it the old ways - so to say. As for your 3rd question, yes, the Hombu Loyalist Group stayed with the Aikikai. Here in the Philippines, when Tohei Sensei broke off with the AIkikai, Guilarpe Sensei decided that he stay with the Ki Society as well as Ernie Talag Sensei, but Camar Sensei stayed with the Aikikai.

rulemaker
05-06-2006, 11:34 AM
HI Richie,

I am very sure that Omar Camar is not connected with Aikikai Hombu Dojo. First, No Filipino or non-Japanese has ever been awarded an "8th Dan" by Hombu Dojo except Noquet of France (O'sensei student). Look at the 8th Dans at Hombu Dojo and abroad, all of them are japanese and original students of O'Sensei. How can Omar Camar be an 8th Dan when he has no connection to O'Sensei at all. Second, we have received a communication from Hombu Dojo asking us who is Omar Camar because word reached Hombu dojo that Omar Camar is telling his students that he will go to Hombu and teach aikido there. Hombu told us that he is not registered there (pm me if you want a copy of the communication). Lastly, how come that you or his students don't have any Aikikai Yudansha Card - this is proof that you are registered and affiliated with the Aikikai Hombu Dojo.

raul rodrigo
05-06-2006, 02:12 PM
Rommel is right. The connection with Hombu is simple to establish. You just need to see if your yudansha card is signed by Moriteru Ueshiba—or before him, Kisshomaru. If not, then the claim to a real connection with Aikikai Hombu becomes pretty difficult to defend.

Ritchie Martinez
05-09-2006, 07:09 AM
Hi guys.

Thanks for the info. But I'm, sure that Omar Camar Sensei - Manila Aikido has an AIkikai affiliation, I've seen all his original documents, Manila Aikido is the first Aikido school here in the Philippines, maybe there was a conflict when the time Benjamin Guilarpe Sensei decided to join Tohei Sensei, you know him right, and Camar Sensei decided to be with the Aikikai. But neither do I have heard the news about Camar Sensei said he would be teaching at Hombu, I don't know where this came from, I have to ask nim personally regarding the matter. I've been with him for quite some time now and I never did hear him brag about teaching at Hombu.

raul rodrigo
05-09-2006, 08:49 AM
Yes, Camar is one of the very first Filipino aikidoka with a Hombu affiliation dating back to perhaps the 1960s. But just because he was affiliated 20 or 30 years ago isnt the same as saying that he is still affiliated today. Obviously dojos and federations break off and lose their ties with Hombu all the time. Again, if your yudansha card isn't signed by one of the Ueshibas, then you don't have a Aikikai affiliation. And to claim to be 8th dan Aikikai is really pushing one's credulity. When did he receive it and who recommended him?

rulemaker
05-10-2006, 11:35 AM
Hi Ritchie,

I will have to agree with Raul. Camar may have gotten his shodan or nidan in the 60's to 70's from Aikikai Hombu Dojo and O'Sensei may have even signed them but that doesn't mean that he or his organization is still affiliated with Hombu Dojo today. Do you really believe that Camar as an 8th Dan Aikikai today is of the same level with Tamura Shihan, Yoshimitsu Yamada Shihan, Endo Shihan, Fujita Shihan, Sugano Shihan, Suganuma Shihan and etc. who are all 8th Dans?

I suggest that you write Aikikai Hombu Dojo and inquire as to the status of Omar Camar and your organization. Address you query to Masake Tani Shihan or Somemiya Shihan at:

intldept@aikikai.or.jp

I am sure that they will entertain your questions. Thanks!

raul rodrigo
05-11-2006, 09:13 PM
Lots of Japanese shihan have an Aikikai background or even a direct teacher-student relationship with Osensei and yet today have no Aikikai affiliation: Koretoshi Maruyama, Shuji Maruyama, Kenji Shimizu, Gaku Homma, and so on. They have their own organizations/dojos. They do not claim to be "8th dan Aikikai."

Ritchie Martinez
05-12-2006, 10:16 AM
Hi again,

As of now, I'm still checking this thing out with our seniors. As to what I've researched so far, his 8th dan was awarded by Guilarpe Sensei, this is what I know for now. I'll try to contact the Aikikai Hombu as to clarify things, maybe after I talk to one of our seniors. Thanks Rommel. And to tell you honestly, you have to see him on the mat for youself to see if he really is at an 8th dan level, 'coz for me, he is.

raul rodrigo
05-12-2006, 01:08 PM
To pass on the responsibility to Guilarpe only compounds the problem. For Guilarpe to award Camar an eighth dan, he himself would have to be at least ninth dan, which is really hard to believe. There are as far as I know only two Aikikai ninth dans living right now, Tada and Okumura. Eighth dan is the level of Chiba and Tamura and Endo, all direct students of Morihei. You're telling me that Camar is at that level, when he is at best the student of a student of a student of Morihei? For you, he is. But which of the top shihan have you seen and taken ukemi for? If your group doesnt practice with other federations, doesnt take yudansha exams when the Aikikai shihan come, and doesnt go abroad to train with the Japanese shihan, how can you really tell?

nodmines
05-12-2006, 02:28 PM
Hi all,

Back in the 1990's when Takemusu Dojo in Espana Street was still in its infancy and when its current yudanshas were still in their kyu ranks, I remember Macapaua Sensei borrowing several yudanshas from the "little dojo in Quiapo" to do demos for the "Hombu recognized - Takemusu Dojo". The reason I heard was that she didn't have aikidokas proficient in jiyuwaza or randori at that time. The yudanshas from Quiapo happily obliged in the spirit of the Way.
Just a few memories that I felt the need to share.

Raul, you're a yudansha recognized by Hombu and has every right to question the old man's (Camar Sensei) credential. All I can say is the Quiapo Dojo has a very old certificate from Hombu. Better yet, why don't you visit the damp little dojo and see for yourself. It's posted on the shomen. And while you're there, why don't you ask the old man where he got his 8th dan. Hehehe! Just kidding!

Yours in ukemi,

Arnold

raul rodrigo
05-12-2006, 08:15 PM
HI Arnold,

No one is questioning the fact that Camar was once accredited by Hombu Dojo. That's part of local aikido history. What I'm driving at is that his dojo seems to have allowed the tie with the Aikikai to lapse, for the reasons I've already stated above. Once an affiliation lapses, then curious things can happen, such as a claim to 8th dan. Camar's generation of 1960s/70s aikidoka (Talag, Gavileno, etc) seem to have all lost their affiliation with Aikikai either openly or quietly. When the Japanese shihan visit, the senior Filipino senseis they acknowledge (and Rommel will back me up here) are people like Jun Mateo (Batobalani) and Mariel Macapawa sensei.

Ritchie Martinez
05-13-2006, 06:10 AM
Hi Raul,

I haven't actually taken ukemi from any other Shinans except from Camar Sensei. I can tell you, he's good, but I don't want to say anymore regarding Camar Sensei's skills. It is really not for me to tell whom we can level him with, I'm just saying what I know. As the old man keeps on saying, regardless the rank, what's important is that you practice what Aikido teaches you. Have you ever seen him on the mat? Maybe you have to if you haven't yet, then maybe you decide if he can be classified as an 8th Dan, AIkikai or not, he is not hard to find, you can find him where Arnold said he would be. Lastly, there are good people near us that we sometimes fail to see or we simply just ignore because we tend to look far.

Good day!

raul rodrigo
05-13-2006, 12:46 PM
Yes, Richie, I should meet Mr Camar one of these days. I haven't made any comments regarding his level of skill. I have been careful not to say something disrespectful. All I said is that the term "Aikikai 8th dan" has a very specific meaning that only Hombu Dojo has the power to determine. An "Aikikai yudansha" has an identification document that is very easy to check. I suppose I only wanted to inject a note of caution about people using the word "Aikikai" without being able to substantiate that reference with the records of Hombu.These are matters of politics and affiliations, not actual aikido on the mat—which is after all the important thing.

nodmines
05-13-2006, 02:30 PM
Mr. Torres, I apologize for not being able to help you with your query. Nvertheless, here is what I know, the dojo that you were referring to is now the Manila Aikido Club. It is still on the 2nd floor of an old building along Quezon Blvd. in Quiapo. Mr. Tenegra and Mr. Camar parted ways long time ago due to "dojo politics". I guess there were too many chefs in the kitchen. Mr. Camar remained as chief of the club while Mr. Tenegra allegedly founded or joined PAPA.

Raul, I totally agree with you. It is despicable for someone to claim something that they don't actually possess. On a final note, how could a shihan from Ki Society (Galarpe, for example) award a dan grade to someone from "aikikai"? If the former indeed gave the latter the 8th dan, shouldn't the latter claim to be "8th Dan Ki Society" or ShinShin Toitsu for that matter and not "8th Dan Aikikai"? Just curious.

Ritchie, I was a yudansha from Manila Aikido Club. I practiced with Senseis Alex, Ahmed, Sonny and others in the early 90's to 2001. I don't intend to demean my former dojo but I am merely trying to open your mind. During our time, inasmuch as we desire to participate with visiting shihans or senseis from other countries, we were scared to do so because the old man will surely kick us out of the dojo if we did in fact participate. That was my main concern. Learning aikido shouldn't be confined to the four corners of the dojo. There's a lot to learn from seminars and aikido expos. Think about it.

Ritchie Martinez
05-13-2006, 09:41 PM
Hi Raul,

You don't have to make any comments with regards to anyone's skill, neither do I, what I said was, that if you get to see him do his thing then you decide if he can be classified as an 8th Dan on not, forget Aikikai or Ki society for now. As I've said earlier, I'm still doing research regarding the matter. Anyway, I know you're just cautious when it comes to the AIkikai organization, but it would be very difficuly to control people from using the word, a lot of Camar Sensei's students hailed from the clubs former name Philippine Aikikai. The club might have lost its affiliation with the Aikikai due to reasons I have to find out, but a lot of Camar Sensei's students believe that the club and style is still Aikikai, I also believe it still is, with or withiut affiliation, as you've said, its just politics.

Hi Arnold,

Its nice to know that you were once with Camar Sensei, Ahmed Sensei is still active and I do practice with him at the dojo in Alabang, the others, well, sometimes. And you know what, during your time and this time, it is pretty much the same when it comes to participating in seminars. But, I think I'll stick with the old man, his ways seems to be strange sometimes, but this is what keeps him different from all others. You know what I mean.

Hope to hear more from you guys.

raul rodrigo
05-13-2006, 10:04 PM
My opinion about whether Camar sensei has 8th dan level skill would have no meaning. None. It is not for me to decide. It is not for Mr. Camar or Mr. Galarpe to decide. Its not a matter of opinion. 8th dan is a rank conferred by a proper certifying body--which in the case of a dojo that claims to be Aikikai, that proper certifying body is Hombu Dojo. Aikikai affiliation is not a matter of belief.

raul rodrigo
05-14-2006, 12:35 PM
Thanks for your input, Arnold. I would prefer to steer clear of words like "despicable," though, since it tends to make people react very strongly. But on the whole, I think you and I have been on the same track: I've been asking questions and offering some facts in the hope of getting Ritchie (and any of his dojo mates who might also have been following this discussion) to accept a broader view of the aikido world than they have been accustomed to. What they do with the information is up to them. But at the very least we should all be proceeding from the same base of facts, instead of using opinions to try to wave inconvenient facts away.

Ritchie Martinez
05-20-2006, 07:03 AM
Hi Raul,

Yes, you are right, Camar Sensei or Manila Aikido is not Aikikai affiliated anymore, but when I said that you decide if Camar Sensei could be classified as 8th Dan, that was on a personal note. You are also right that only an organization can rank someone (still have to ask Camar Sensei who awarded him his 8th Dan, then I'll tell you). Also, what I said was the club and style is Aikikai, we can not deny that fact, and it is not just my opinion because it is Aikikai (the style) and once was Aikikai (affiliation). As you've said, affiliations lapse, but do style lapse as well? And strong reactions only come from those who think otherwise when I accidentally used the word Aikikai (affiliation) in one of my posts, that's what I know during that time, but now, I know the whole story of what really happened to our club. And maybe you see me or our Club as confined only to what we know and learn in our small dojo in Quiapo, to tell you honestly, we do have a wide view of Aikido as a whole. We don't look at it simply as a group, or a club, or an organization. We see it as a way of life, as it should be. That is what we learned from the old man. All of us do practice the same thing, Aikido. It may be Aikikai, Yoshinkan, Tomiki, Ki Society or any other Aikido groups out there but the essence is the same, we are all trying to achive one common goal, harmony.

Until next time!

PVM75
12-07-2006, 05:51 PM
Ey Arnold,

This is Patrick. Do you still remember me? You were my uke when I got promoted and we used to practice together in Sensei Jun's dojo in Ever Gotesco.

Cheers!

Ritchie Martinez
01-25-2007, 04:37 AM
Hi Patrick,

Replied to your email, hope that Arnold would be able to see your post.

Rei!

carlo pagal
02-19-2007, 07:52 PM
greetings from the iloilo aikido club!

if you have time, pls. visit www.aikiloilo.bravehost.com. a site that we made for SENSEI FRANCISCO VALENCIA. I'm sure that a lot of filipino aikidokas are not familiar with him. He happens to be the first filipino aikido blackbelt. he studied aikido in the early 50's and was promoted to blackbelt in 1965. i'm sure sensei Galarpe and other old aikido practicioners know him. we would like to share with you, pics of him and some of his students in guam in the 60's. pls visit our website.

Aikibu
02-22-2007, 12:35 AM
batobalani sensei was a direct student of the late shoji nishio shihan,the founder of nishio aikido.batobalani seinsei was based in the u.s. and at present he has a dojo in pangasinan here in the philippines, teaching nishio-style aikido and iaido. i was able to attend one of batobalani aka jun mateo sensei's seminars in pangasinan last 2004

With all due respect Jun Mateo aka Batobalani Sensei was never a direct student of Shoji Nishio Shihan. He was a direct student of Masa Tazaki Sensei who was himself a direct student of Shoji Nishio until Tazaki Sensei broke away (with Nishio Shihan's blessings) to form his own organization. I have lived and studied Shoji Nishio's Aikido for over 17 years here in Southern California and we have a few of Mateo's Sensei's old students at our dojo. I have been familiar with Jun Mateo since that time.

For him to claim that he is a "direct" student of Shoji Nishio Shihan is a misrepresentation and disrespectful.

William Hazen

Ritchie Martinez
02-25-2007, 03:03 AM
Hi Carlo,

I've seen your website, it's a good tribute and I'm sure a good teacher deserves one. But sad to say, many of the old timers in Aikido are not much known these days, for reasons that we might not find out. It is one of my wishes that someday, all Aikido practitioners in the Philippines would gather under one roof and practice together, regardless of affiliation (it is a big issue to others and I know that you know what I mean).:)

Cheers.

Ritchie

Mannix Moya
02-25-2007, 08:26 AM
Hi Carlo,

. It is one of my wishes that someday, all Aikido practitioners in the Philippines would gather under one roof and practice together, regardless of affiliation

+1:)

budokid
05-08-2008, 06:56 PM
I used to practice in the Quiapo gym of Sensei Camar. It is my regret however that I could not practice regularly because my job requires frequent business trips. I would like to make two comments:

1. It is true that there exists in the shomen a certificate from hombu dojo a recognition of the club issued sometime 196x.It bears the seal of the originator himself. I think this is one rare document and should be kept as a proof of Aikido entering the Philippines way back in the 60s.

2. Rommel: I have heard that some yudanshas of Sensei Camar hold Aikikai yudansha cards from hombo dojo. I think this is the same card you are accusing Ritchie and some yudansha members of the club of not having. They are just simply not flaunting it. One of them is in regular communication with Sensei Camar himself. I heard he came back a year ago from abroad. According to rumor he is 4th dan - the highest in the group. Not sure about this. Perhaps Ritchie knows him.

HI Richie,

I am very sure that Omar Camar is not connected with Aikikai Hombu Dojo. ........ Lastly, how come that you or his students don't have any Aikikai Yudansha Card - this is proof that you are registered and affiliated with the Aikikai Hombu Dojo.

attydotcom
05-13-2008, 11:18 AM
I have seen Omar Camar's aikido, and i am sorry to say that he is not in the same category as Shihans Tamura, Endo, Fujita, Yamada, etc. (not of course to demean his technique or anything, which is in my opinion not bad)... Look at the shoulders, and you'll know what i mean..

Hi Raul, hi Rommel, hello Ritchie.. PEACE! :) See you on the mat soon.. :)

budokid
05-24-2008, 09:55 AM
You are simply contradicting your own statements and making it sound that you are not. Come on...

I have been reading the past posts and there is just one thing I notice: Just what have you guys got against Omar Camar? What has he done to you and your "affiliated" organizations? His group is just there sitting quietly and you guys (Rommel) are putting words in his mouth.

And just why are you picking on his yudanshas and accusing them of not having any yudansha cards? Whether they have it or not is none of your business.

Look, the dojo of Camar has existed for about 4 decades already. If his AIkido or his technicques or his curriculum is not at par with your so-called high standards because you guya are "affilliated" now explain why his students don't leave him and defect to your associations. Why? Answer that.

And also, why you guys don;t have any respect at all to the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines like the one who headed the dojo in Iloilo?

You guys claim to be practitioners of the Art but at the same time you are all very un-Aiki.

Now I understand why a lot of Camar students, and Camar himself don't want to have anything to do with you.

I have seen Omar Camar's aikido, and i am sorry to say that he is not in the same category as Shihans Tamura, Endo, Fujita, Yamada, etc. (not of course to demean his technique or anything, which is in my opinion not bad)... Look at the shoulders, and you'll know what i mean..

Hi Raul, hi Rommel, hello Ritchie.. PEACE! :) See you on the mat soon.. :)

raul rodrigo
05-24-2008, 11:34 AM
Juaniyo:

If you read my posts, you will find that I have taken pains not to disparage Camar sensei. We are simply raising questions about certain factual claims made by the Philippine Aikikai Federation (formerly Manila Aikido)-- for instance, claims about being 8th dan, about being still connected to Hombu Dojo. Raising questions about facts is not the same as issuing an insult, or being "un-aiki." If a person makes a claim in a public forum, he should be prepared to back it up, and in fact Ritchie has conceded that Camar's group no longer has any connection to Hombu Dojo. Read post #28.

I have said nothing about someone's technique being superior or inferior. If respect is what you are looking for, then, yes, certainly Camar and Valencia and Talag and the other Filipino aikido pioneers certainly deserve our respect.

best,

RAUL

Enrique Antonio Reyes
05-24-2008, 08:47 PM
Hi Guys, Iking here and I used to train with Camar Sensei at the Manila Aikido Club (the name at that time was already Philippine Aikikai). I have read some of the thread and felt the itch to join in.

1. Well there is a certificate in the quiapo gym signed by O Sensei however it is definitely outdated.

2. Midway towards Yudansha I had the feeling already that the gym was not in touch with Headquarters (there were japanese visitors sometimes tho...). At that time the takemusu dojo (and another one in quezon cty - PAPA?) was being set-up and we actually checked out the gym/s but the fees were not quite in line with our (student) budget.

3. I believe that Camar Sensei is not affiliated with Aikikai anymore (the gym is just named after it). It is just weird since history states that when Galarpe Sensei left he gave the leadership of the Aikikai to Sensei Omar and joined Tohei in another organization. However, names during promotions then were being sent to Guam (???).

My guess is (just a guess) that Sensei Omar maintained relationships with Sensei Galarpe only and not with Japanese headquarters. When he was promoted to 5th Dan I heard that it was Sensei Garlarpe who promoted him so I guess If he is 8th Dan it would be more likely with Tohei's organization or just directly from Sensei Galarpe. Either that or he just promoted himself (which I doubt since he is still very much an honorable person).

4. I believe that Dan grades are not only given for skill but also for your contribution to the advancement of the art so I guess whoever promoted sensei omar to 8th dan considered that he is indeed one of the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines.

5. Other blackbelts from recognized organizations have the right to be sensitive about affiliation.

6. Organizations that are independent have a right to be proud of their lineage 0 Sensei - Tohei - Galarpe - Camar/Talag/Gavileno --- (just an example)

7. What matters in the end is that we actually practice what we practice.. Aikido is definitely much more than just a martial art...it is a way of life. I have doubted its effectiveness before but now I have come to understand the higher call of O Sensei...kinda like the role of corporate social responsibility to business.

Have a good day everyone!

Iking

budokid
05-25-2008, 01:58 AM
Dear Mr. Enrique,

So you were a practitioner after all from Sensei Omar's Dojo in Quiapo. If you are still active, try to find out if the the rumors circulating around ar true or not that some Sensei's students do have those yudansha certifications. If true, find out who they are and find out why they don't associate themselves from the "affiliated" dojos but remain loyal to their home dojo. I think one of the is Sensei Ace (Doc Ace).

Thanks,
John

Hi Guys, Iking here and I used to train with Camar Sensei at the Manila Aikido Club (the name at that time was already Philippine Aikikai). I have read some of the thread and felt the itch to join in.

1. Well there is a certificate in the quiapo gym signed by O Sensei however it is definitely outdated.

2. Midway towards Yudansha I had the feeling already that the gym was not in touch with Headquarters (there were japanese visitors sometimes tho...). At that time the takemusu dojo (and another one in quezon cty - PAPA?) was being set-up and we actually checked out the gym/s but the fees were not quite in line with our (student) budget.

3. I believe that Camar Sensei is not affiliated with Aikikai anymore (the gym is just named after it). It is just weird since history states that when Galarpe Sensei left he gave the leadership of the Aikikai to Sensei Omar and joined Tohei in another organization. However, names during promotions then were being sent to Guam (???).

My guess is (just a guess) that Sensei Omar maintained relationships with Sensei Galarpe only and not with Japanese headquarters. When he was promoted to 5th Dan I heard that it was Sensei Garlarpe who promoted him so I guess If he is 8th Dan it would be more likely with Tohei's organization or just directly from Sensei Galarpe. Either that or he just promoted himself (which I doubt since he is still very much an honorable person).

4. I believe that Dan grades are not only given for skill but also for your contribution to the advancement of the art so I guess whoever promoted sensei omar to 8th dan considered that he is indeed one of the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines.

5. Other blackbelts from recognized organizations have the right to be sensitive about affiliation.

6. Organizations that are independent have a right to be proud of their lineage 0 Sensei - Tohei - Galarpe - Camar/Talag/Gavileno --- (just an example)

7. What matters in the end is that we actually practice what we practice.. Aikido is definitely much more than just a martial art...it is a way of life. I have doubted its effectiveness before but now I have come to understand the higher call of O Sensei...kinda like the role of corporate social responsibility to business.

Have a good day everyone!

Iking

budokid
05-25-2008, 02:13 AM
Mr. Raul,

So what if Sensei Camar's group is not affiliated? So what if his yudanshas don't have your so-called "yudansha ceriticates from Japan"? Does that make them less of an Aikido Practitioner(s) compared to you "affiliated" guys?

You know what, I doubt if you "affiliated" guys can keep up with how even their colored belts play - how much more for their browns and yudanshas. You should see how they play before you pass judgement.

How about going directly to Sensei Camar himself and asking how he got his "8th Dan"? Or better, tell your leadership to go directly to him and ask and scold him for those "claims". Get a statement. That should clarify things up.

John

Juaniyo:

If you read my posts, you will find that I have taken pains not to disparage Camar sensei. We are simply raising questions about certain factual claims made by the Philippine Aikikai Federation (formerly Manila Aikido)-- for instance, claims about being 8th dan, about being still connected to Hombu Dojo. Raising questions about facts is not the same as issuing an insult, or being "un-aiki." If a person makes a claim in a public forum, he should be prepared to back it up, and in fact Ritchie has conceded that Camar's group no longer has any connection to Hombu Dojo. Read post #28.

I have said nothing about someone's technique being superior or inferior. If respect is what you are looking for, then, yes, certainly Camar and Valencia and Talag and the other Filipino aikido pioneers certainly deserve our respect.

best,

RAUL

budokid
05-25-2008, 02:20 AM
Arnold:

Read the posts coming from the practitioners of the "Affiliated" organizations. I can now see why Sensei Camar is preventing you from being in contact with them lest you get "corrupted".

And your previous story is right - Macapawa borrowing yudansha from Quiapo in order to promote her Affiliated Dojo. And now, this is what Manila Aikido Club gets in return after the dojo got its introduction to the public.

John

......

Ritchie, I was a yudansha from Manila Aikido Club. I practiced with Senseis Alex, Ahmed, Sonny and others in the early 90's to 2001. I don't intend to demean my former dojo but I am merely trying to open your mind. During our time, inasmuch as we desire to participate with visiting shihans or senseis from other countries, we were scared to do so because the old man will surely kick us out of the dojo if we did in fact participate. That was my main concern. Learning aikido shouldn't be confined to the four corners of the dojo. There's a lot to learn from seminars and aikido expos. Think about it.

raul rodrigo
05-25-2008, 07:35 AM
Mr. Raul,

So what if Sensei Camar's group is not affiliated? So what if his yudanshas don't have your so-called "yudansha ceriticates from Japan"? Does that make them less of an Aikido Practitioner(s) compared to you "affiliated" guys?

John

Did I say who was better or worse? Did I compare technique? Did I badmouth anyone? Of course not. I didn't say the students of Camar were any less qualified or skilled than someone who does have a yudansha passport from Aikikai Hombu. It is you who are insisting that I am casting aspersions. I am not. Simple possession of an Aikikai yudansha passport is no indicator of superior technical skill, and I have never implied that it is.

Let's stick with ascertaining facts. Ritchie Martinez and Iking and Arnold, all students of Camar, are all conceding that certain statements that have been made about the status of Camar's dojo with regard to Aikikai Hombu Dojo are in fact untrue. All concede the fact that the dojo is not affiliated. (And if the dojo is not affiliated with Aikikai, then it is therefore impossible for its students to have Aikikai yudansha cards.) Arnold and Ritchie are willing to let it go at that. And so am I. It is you who is raking it up again.

Best,

R

raul rodrigo
05-25-2008, 07:51 AM
One other undisputable fact is that there is only one non-Japanese 8th dan in the entire history of the Aikikai: Andre Nocquet of France, who studied under O'sensei in the 1950s and died in 1999. You could look it up.

Peter Goldsbury
05-25-2008, 08:12 AM
One other undisputable fact is that there is only one non-Japanese 8th dan in the entire history of the Aikikai: Andre Nocquet of France, who studied under O'sensei in the 1950s and died in 1999. You could look it up.

Raul,

I have no wish to become involved in the politics of aikido in the Philippines, but I think that Mr Nocquet's 8th dan was given by the French government and not by the Aikikai. I believe I am correct in thinking that no non-Japanese has ever received an 8th dan from the Aikikai.

Best wishes,

raul rodrigo
05-25-2008, 08:19 AM
I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing that out. I understand that you wouldn't want to get involved in this.

best,

R

Enrique Antonio Reyes
05-25-2008, 10:07 AM
Wow! Things are heating up here. I do hope that this would be similar to a strategy session where we are all putting pressure on each other to come up with a brilliant and shining business strategy...

Mr. budokid, I'm not active anymore but will do try to find out. I trained with sensei ace (dok) and I think he has a yudansha card (will clarify if its aikikai...I believe it was given sometime 1992 or 93) ... hmmnnn, now I regret not sticking around a little bit (should have ensured I got mine). The camar boys including myself take pride in the rigidity of our training. The dojo is filled with stories...there was a time where our first female blackbelt's necklace was snatched...and she chased down the guy and caught him with a kokyu nage, there was a guy who was molested in the theater (by a gay person I assume) and he put the guy in sankkyo and threw him over the seats...there were sad ones too like when sensei lucky was gunned down...the people take pride in their lineage and their history.

Yep, I also heard about arnold's comments. I personally saw the dismay of camar sensei when he got wind of it. For some reason (at that particular time where a lot of the other affiliated dojos were just starting) aikikai boys just felt that there were superiority in terms of technique and training. In some ways I agree (especially with randori) however, the takemusu dojo has excellent training on the bokken and the jo (I believed that at that time they were better when it comes to aiki weapons)

Hi Raul,

I appreciate the breadth of knowledge you contribute to this forum. I do hope you do understand that aikikai guys are already bothered by the "perceived" arrogance of the affiliated organizations. I do apologize for any adversity that you may have felt but I do believe that you are only after the clarification of facts. However not all "affiliated" guys are like yourself and others only usher in the subject to brag about their genuine connection with hombu.

Sensei Camar is a remarkable leader and has earned all our respect. I do hope you understand why a lot of us are emotional about this.

But you know what? Hopefully one of these days I will run into him and I will ask him personally where he got his 8th dan. (although its quite a long shot since I rarely go there)

Have a nice day to everyone!

Iking

raul rodrigo
05-25-2008, 10:28 AM
Iking:

Thank you for your response, and thanks for being willing to concede that I am only looking for the facts, without any intent to demean anyone. I understand that the Manila Aikido students are proud of their dojo and proud of their teacher and I respect that. I also understand why some of you may be wary of some of those from the affiliated groups. In and of itself, the yudansha passport doesn't really mean all that much. I've met a few Aikikai yudansha whose technique, to put it politely, could stand some improvement. As my teachers always said, its not in the belt or the certificate; we prove ourselves only on the mat.

best,

R

budokid
05-25-2008, 06:58 PM
Dear Raul,

Thank you very much Raul. I hope that other passport holders will also realize that what they are holding are not status symbols but a formal record and documentation of their training from the point of view of the Japan HQ.

In the same way, for those who are not passport holders, what is important is the authenticity of your skill which has been handed down without corruption from what was originally taught in the 60s.

Best regards,
John

Iking:

Thank you for your response, and thanks for being willing to concede that I am only looking for the facts, without any intent to demean anyone. I understand that the Manila Aikido students are proud of their dojo and proud of their teacher and I respect that. I also understand why some of you may be wary of some of those from the affiliated groups. In and of itself, the yudansha passport doesn't really mean all that much. I've met a few Aikikai yudansha whose technique, to put it politely, could stand some improvement. As my teachers always said, its not in the belt or the certificate; we prove ourselves only on the mat.

best,

R

Raul Roldan
05-26-2008, 05:55 AM
Forums like these are really a great way to exchange ideas, information, facts. Especially in this case, as the intent, it seems to me is to sort of evolve an accurate picture of Aikido history in the Philippines. As diversity is typical in this world, I can glean that a microcosm of that is also reflected in the evolution of aikido in the Philippines. It is not altogether unusual that there would be contractions and expansions; divisions and coming together. People have personalities and with that, perceptions, opinions and even, how we feel about ourselves; yes, differences abound.

Obviously, some have emotional investments with certain groups. This is not unusual either. Certain things drive us and we feel good about certain affiliations.

Why I premise my thoughts with the above is to convey that you are all actually in an open forum and totally exposed to the rest of the world. If you are mindful of that, you’d be more mindful in your choices of words. It’s like what they say about emails you want to send in the heat of the moment. Try to read it first and send it to yourself and see how you feel. It also allows you to be more specific and precise with your language.

Aikido is quite evolutionary; I think all learning are. I cannot be sure if I am right in this but I think that the Japanese mode of learning Shu-Ha-Ri sort of reflects that. At Shu stage, you follow the form given you. I sometimes just call this the mechanics of techniques. Following that is the Ha stage where you learn to internalise what you learned. The Ri stage allows you the experimentation or the adaptation of what you learnt to what best suit your temperament, body structure, and what other factors that is you. So, really in that sense, there is no such thing as corruption of aikido. Every time a new person takes up aikido it is likely that he will develop his own aikido over time. Affiliations, teachers, fellow practitioners, strangers can provide you with experience of their aikido; you can glean from them what fits yours and you take it from there. But to say, aikido has pure form is not really quite correct. So, I guess what I am saying here is there’s really no point I arguing about matters of affiliations, certificates or what-not. Since someone started this, just provide the facts and hopefully, even how fractious it is, it can at least give us the picture of how aikido in the Philippines evolved and we can honour everyone who played a part in it.

budokid
05-26-2008, 06:55 PM
Sorry Raul, but honestly, I don't understand what you are talking about...your choice of words ... too profound ...

Forums like these are really a great way to exchange ideas, information, facts. Especially in this case, as the intent, it seems to me is to sort of evolve an accurate picture of Aikido history in the Philippines. As diversity is typical in this world, I can glean that a microcosm of that is also reflected in the evolution of aikido in the Philippines. It is not altogether unusual that there would be contractions and expansions; divisions and coming together. People have personalities and with that, perceptions, opinions and even, how we feel about ourselves; yes, differences abound.

Obviously, some have emotional investments with certain groups. This is not unusual either. Certain things drive us and we feel good about certain affiliations.

Why I premise my thoughts with the above is to convey that you are all actually in an open forum and totally exposed to the rest of the world. If you are mindful of that, you'd be more mindful in your choices of words. It's like what they say about emails you want to send in the heat of the moment. Try to read it first and send it to yourself and see how you feel. It also allows you to be more specific and precise with your language.

Aikido is quite evolutionary; I think all learning are. I cannot be sure if I am right in this but I think that the Japanese mode of learning Shu-Ha-Ri sort of reflects that. At Shu stage, you follow the form given you. I sometimes just call this the mechanics of techniques. Following that is the Ha stage where you learn to internalise what you learned. The Ri stage allows you the experimentation or the adaptation of what you learnt to what best suit your temperament, body structure, and what other factors that is you. So, really in that sense, there is no such thing as corruption of aikido. Every time a new person takes up aikido it is likely that he will develop his own aikido over time. Affiliations, teachers, fellow practitioners, strangers can provide you with experience of their aikido; you can glean from them what fits yours and you take it from there. But to say, aikido has pure form is not really quite correct. So, I guess what I am saying here is there's really no point I arguing about matters of affiliations, certificates or what-not. Since someone started this, just provide the facts and hopefully, even how fractious it is, it can at least give us the picture of how aikido in the Philippines evolved and we can honour everyone who played a part in it.

carlo pagal
05-27-2008, 02:13 AM
greetings from the iloilo aikido dojo! here is our contribution to this thread.

Sensie Valencia started practicing aikido in the early 50s in Asan Point Base in Guam under Sensie Harry Eto, with Sensie Kalama and Sensie Sasaki as other instructors. Sensie Valencia was the only Filipino promoted to a rank of Shodan, date was 23rd May 1965, later that year Tohie Sensei visited Guam wherein he actually chose this Filipino as his sparring partner during demo's and seminars, that same year,Tohei Sensei noticed the large number of enthusiastic Filipinos practicing the art. Henceforth, with the mandate to propagate the art, Sensie Valencia was chosen to officially introduce the art of aikido to the Philippines, considering he was the only Filipino Shodan at that time. Apparently Valencia Sensie declined, and this prompted the Board of Directors of Guam Aikido Club( Sensie Valencia was one of the members) to promote another Filipino to an Honorary Blackbelt. and thus, the seed of aikido in the Philippines started.

In 1967 he was promoted to 2nd Dan and he instructed classes in the Hawaii Aiki Kwai, the Marianas Aiki Kwai as well as the Guam Aikido Club. During 1968, Sensei Francisco Valencia with Sensei David Kalama and Sensei Roger Sasaki were conducting classes for about 70 members at the Asan dojo in Guam, Marianas Island.
At that period he was also conducting classes for the Roxas Aikido Club(the first aikido club in guam).

By 1970 he was already promoted to 3rd Dan and in 1974 he was promoted to the title of 4th Dan.

When he went home in the Philippines, he taught for a short while in YMCA Iloilo and in a dojo in Mandurriao, a town in Iloilo. And in 1991, he founded the Iloilo Aikido Dojo in Villa, Iloilo.

He passed away last year leaving Ramon "Jack" Tentia, one of the few students awarded by Sensei Valencia with a shodan title as the head instructor.

We have photographs of persons synonymous with Philippine Aikido... Photos were in black and white but you can tell they wore colored belts, and their instructor is no other than Valencia Sensei. pls visit aikiloilo.bravehost.com

We hope this helps...

judojo
05-27-2008, 06:12 AM
Dear Shihan, Sensei and Aikidoka, We love you all. The topic the Philippine Aikikai Aikido is the truth and though we Aikidoka practice same Aikido Dojo Reigi.

Enrique Antonio Reyes
05-27-2008, 07:13 AM
Hi Carlo,

Thank you for the Info. It's nice to learn about Philippine Aikido's Inside History through Valencia Sensei's eyes. I'm also glad that The practice of Aikido is well nurtured by our brothers in the south.

Iking

Enrique Antonio Reyes
05-27-2008, 07:53 AM
Hey Guys, just discovered this...check it out.

http://www.geocities.com/manila_aikido_club/index.html

Hi Loreto,

I hope this helps. Have a good day.

Iking

carlo pagal
05-27-2008, 08:11 AM
Hi Carlo,

Thank you for the Info. It's nice to learn about Philippine Aikido's Inside History through Valencia Sensei's eyes. I'm also glad that The practice of Aikido is well nurtured by our brothers in the south.

Iking

You are very welcome Iking. Please let us know if you or your friends have any questions regarding Sensei Valencia. We'd be more than happy to answer them to the best our knowledge. Pls visit our website at aikiloilo.bravehost.com. Or you can also ask Sensei Camar or Sensei Galarpe, they know him.

Iloilo Aikido Dojo

budokid
06-03-2008, 04:20 AM
I guess that pretty much tells everyone how Aikido has been with us since the 60s. I just hope that practitioners in the Philippines should appreciate more our Aikido heritage and give the proper respect due to the TRUE pioneers of Aikido in the country. There are other practitioners out there that might have dan ratings higher than our pioneers. But one thing is sure - the pioneers were already yudansha even before any of us were born thus the proper respect for them.

For some reason, the Philippine Aikido culture now gives more importance to the Japanese than they do our pioneers - all eager and scrambling to see them teach the same thing over and over again. And yet not once, not even once, were our old senseis like Sensei Camar and Sensei Valencia ever been called and invited or given recognition.

I still yet to see a book about the true history of Aikido in the Philippines.

Best regards to all,
John

villrg0a
06-04-2008, 12:16 AM
Greetings fellow pinoys! As aikido is non-resistance, can’t resist disseminating another important Phil aiki history that every practicing pinoy should be aware of.

Regardless of style and affiliation, an aikido club since 1956 (http://bpym.webs.com/)……

Enrique Antonio Reyes
06-04-2008, 09:23 AM
Greetings fellow pinoys! As aikido is non-resistance, can’t resist disseminating another important Phil aiki history that every practicing pinoy should be aware of.

Regardless of style and affiliation, an aikido club since 1956 (http://bpym.webs.com/)……

Thanks Romuel, I actually wanted to train with them but unfortunately their gym is in quezon city which is quite far from where I am (taguig). One-Aiki tayo pare ko!

CitoMaramba
06-04-2008, 11:35 AM
On May 22, 2004, my Sensei organized a "Day of Harmony" to honor the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines. In preparation for this he travelled to Manila (he lives in Urdaneta, Pangasinan, more than 3 hours away) to personally meet and invite Talag Sensei and Gavileno Sensei.. He also met with Alejo Sensei, Lapus Sensei and Reyes Sensei, and sent one of my dojomates to personally invite Camar Sensei.
At the event, only Alejo Sensei and Reyes Sensei arrived. But the intent to honor all the pioneers of Philippine AIkido was there.
You can learn more about this event and see some of the pictures taken on this website:

http://freewebs.com/dayofharmony/

budokid
06-04-2008, 11:50 PM
This is great. I wonder why the Manila-based dojos haven't thiught of this. I hope that this becomes a yearly activity.

On May 22, 2004, my Sensei organized a "Day of Harmony" to honor the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines. In preparation for this he travelled to Manila (he lives in Urdaneta, Pangasinan, more than 3 hours away) to personally meet and invite Talag Sensei and Gavileno Sensei.. He also met with Alejo Sensei, Lapus Sensei and Reyes Sensei, and sent one of my dojomates to personally invite Camar Sensei.
At the event, only Alejo Sensei and Reyes Sensei arrived. But the intent to honor all the pioneers of Philippine AIkido was there.
You can learn more about this event and see some of the pictures taken on this website:

http://freewebs.com/dayofharmony/

Enrique Antonio Reyes
06-05-2008, 07:56 AM
That's a great and noble gesture. I salute your sensei Doc Cito (by the way we are related to marambas from pangasinan).

Too bad the others did not follow suit. I have met Reyes Sensei recently (were not related) and I believe he's a sincere, honorable guy.

One-Aiki-Movement!!! Sana matuloy natin ang nasimulan 4 years ago...Kahit every four years gawin...parang olympics...

CitoMaramba
06-05-2008, 10:48 AM
That's a great and noble gesture. I salute your sensei Doc Cito (by the way we are related to marambas from pangasinan).

Too bad the others did not follow suit. I have met Reyes Sensei recently (were not related) and I believe he's a sincere, honorable guy.

One-Aiki-Movement!!! Sana matuloy natin ang nasimulan 4 years ago...Kahit every four years gawin...parang olympics...

Really? Then we're related, because my Father's family is from Pangasinan (Sta. Barbara)...
Salamat a balbaleg, pinsan!

Enrique Antonio Reyes
06-05-2008, 04:03 PM
Really? Then we're related, because my Father's family is from Pangasinan (Sta. Barbara)...
Salamat a balbaleg, pinsan!

On the dot! My great grand parents (father side) hails from Sta. Barbara.

There's a close cousin of my dad in sampaloc. I used to visit him in his house. My dad calls him manoling. He's a lawyer.

We also attended a "sort of" grand meeting in Larry Henares' house last year. Were you there?...

budokid
06-05-2008, 06:50 PM
OK. If everyone agrees about how great that "day of Harmony" was then why not everyone contribute and initiate another "day of Harmony" this year and every year thereafter. I think that's the only thing that is lacking. But it would be better that the largest dojo organizations in Manila should initiate it.

villrg0a
06-06-2008, 01:56 PM
Thanks Romuel, I actually wanted to train with them but unfortunately their gym is in quezon city which is quite far from where I am (taguig). One-Aiki tayo pare
ko!

I also live in Taguig, maybe we can get together before the year end. BTW, BP guys are in Fort Bonifacio - near your area.

Enrique Antonio Reyes
06-07-2008, 04:54 AM
I also live in Taguig, maybe we can get together before the year end. BTW, BP guys are in Fort Bonifacio - near your area.

Sure pare ko. sa ususan ako. I checked the dojo list here and yest BP is indeed inside Fort Boni.

Will check them out one time. Sana may per session lang...

Mr. Budokid, mukhang MAC, FFA and the PAPA groups ang dapat mag-organize nung harmony day. (in close coordination with Sensei Batobalani since he is the originator of this activity...sana lang represented lahat dito...

Carlo (iloilo) would you guys be up for this?

Iking

budokid
06-12-2008, 10:56 PM
It appears that Aikido groups in our country will never get to be reunited at all. Looks like no one is taking the initiative to do this. I was expecting actually the leadership of the biggest groups such as MAC, FFA, PAPA and AIkiPhil to initiate and show the good example since they are the ones who are connected with Japan HQ - they have the machinery and resources for this.

Thanks for the Urdaneta group who had the guts to do it.

... mukhang MAC, FFA and the PAPA groups ang dapat mag-organize nung harmony day. (in close coordination with Sensei Batobalani since he is the originator of this activity...sana lang represented lahat dito...

Carlo (iloilo) would you guys be up for this?

Iking[/QUOTE]

carlo pagal
06-15-2008, 08:18 AM
we'd love to take part of such an event. just tell us when and where.

nodmines
06-19-2008, 09:09 PM
Quote:

"Yep, I also heard about arnold's comments. I personally saw the dismay of camar sensei when he got wind of it."

Hi Sensei Iking,

Rei! Just to be clear, I profoundly respect Sensei Omar. It was never my intention to disparage or blacken his reputation and I apologize if my comments two years ago rubbed him the wrong way. I was merely expressing my personal opinion that had he continued affiliating with the Aikikai governing body, we would not have these Hombu-snobs questioning the legitimacy of our Aikido.

With regard to the 8th dan issue, my point was that he should have been more forthcoming as to the granting body. Would you put MBA on your letterhead if you didn't go to B school? I hope you get my drift.

To reiterate, I meant no disrespect. I even uke'd for him on hard pavement lots of times because I believe in his Aikido. Lastly, I respect you too, Sensei Iking, because you introduced me to the art. Peace to all.

Best regards,

"arnold" (in lower case)

Enrique Antonio Reyes
06-20-2008, 09:42 AM
Quote:

"Yep, I also heard about arnold's comments. I personally saw the dismay of camar sensei when he got wind of it."

Hi Arnold, if you read closely and trace the previous statements I was referring to your statement about the blackbelts who used to demonstrate for takemusu. Nothing about you questioning the rank of Sensei Camar. Bandmate! Classmate! Aikimate! regards kay Sensei Matsuoka...


Hi Sensei Iking,

Rei! Just to be clear, I profoundly respect Sensei Omar. It was never my intention to disparage or blacken his reputation and I apologize if my comments two years ago rubbed him the wrong way. I was merely expressing my personal opinion that had he continued affiliating with the Aikikai governing body, we would not have these Hombu-snobs questioning the legitimacy of our Aikido.

Pare ko, in a way I share your sentiments. I agree with you. Again, my quoted statement above refers to another topic and is not about you : )

With regard to the 8th dan issue, my point was that he should have been more forthcoming as to the granting body. Would you put MBA on your letterhead if you didn't go to B school? I hope you get my drift.

It is encouraged now to put the school after your title
like...

Enrique Antonio B. Reyes, DBA (DLSU, Phils.) something like that masyado lang mahaba...

To reiterate, I meant no disrespect. I even uke'd for him on hard pavement lots of times because I believe in his Aikido. Lastly, I respect you too, Sensei Iking, because you introduced me to the art. Peace to all.

My respects to you as well...again...the quote refers to another topic and not about you questioning the rank of Sensei Camar.

Best regards,

"arnold" (in lower case)

Pare ko there is a grave miscommunication between us. Please see the comments I typed in bold letters

nodmines
06-20-2008, 01:35 PM
Dear Dr. Iking,

Congratulations on your DBA!!! Kudos to you my classmate, bandmate, drinking buddy, fellow UST Honor Guard and my brother in art of Aikido and Arnis...(gasping for air)...

I am glad we got that out of the way. I hope you are doing well in everything. Rei!

All the best,

Nod

Enrique Antonio Reyes
06-22-2008, 07:08 AM
Dear Dr. Iking,

Congratulations on your DBA!!! Kudos to you my classmate, bandmate, drinking buddy, fellow UST Honor Guard and my brother in art of Aikido and Arnis...(gasping for air)...

I am glad we got that out of the way. I hope you are doing well in everything. Rei!

All the best,

Nod

Pare ko I'm glad that you read my reply. Baka kasi two years uli bago mo mabasa eh baka matabunan na uli and might trigger another miscommunication. Please bear in mind that we have been friends for a long time and it would really be a huge matter for anything to taint our friendship. I'm glad we got in touch.

I'm not yet done pare ko (example lang yun) I'm done with my academic requirements and I am reviewing now for my comprehensive exam. Afterwards I will begin writing my dissertation. I am hoping to finish my mid-2009.

Are you practicing there already? (law)

Best wishes to you and your family.

Guys, sorry for posting this here. I should have sent Arnold a private message.

Iking

Cynrod
07-15-2008, 04:52 PM
On May 22, 2004, my Sensei organized a "Day of Harmony" to honor the pioneers of Aikido in the Philippines. In preparation for this he travelled to Manila (he lives in Urdaneta, Pangasinan, more than 3 hours away) to personally meet and invite Talag Sensei and Gavileno Sensei.. He also met with Alejo Sensei, Lapus Sensei and Reyes Sensei, and sent one of my dojomates to personally invite Camar Sensei.
At the event, only Alejo Sensei and Reyes Sensei arrived. But the intent to honor all the pioneers of Philippine AIkido was there.
You can learn more about this event and see some of the pictures taken on this website:

http://freewebs.com/dayofharmony/

Kumusta to all. I just have a question that I have in mind that I want to ask. Is sensei Reyes from Olongapo City? If he is then maybe he is related to my fraternity sister Tess at the FEU in the late 70's. One more thing also,,, I met a guy in San Diego by the name of Mar DeLeon in the early 90"s and he told me that he came from the Philippine Aikikai Dojo. Anyone knows Mar DeLeon? The last time I went down to San Diego his dojo was not there anymore.

Well, just dropping by also to say hello to all fellow PINOYS :) .

Mannix Moya
07-18-2008, 10:36 AM
Sure pare ko. sa ususan ako. I checked the dojo list here and yest BP is indeed inside Fort Boni.

Will check them out one time. Sana may per session lang...

Mr. Budokid, mukhang MAC, FFA and the PAPA groups ang dapat mag-organize nung harmony day. (in close coordination with Sensei Batobalani since he is the originator of this activity...sana lang represented lahat dito...

Carlo (iloilo) would you guys be up for this?

Iking

Iking,

Sama ako diyan! I'm a student of Jun Carandang Sensei, from time to time Senseis Dundee, Sonny Empleo, Alex Padilla, and Patrick Marquina would drop by sa dojo and play with us.

ken zen ichii
11-12-2008, 07:36 PM
About Sensei Camar and Aiki Kai.
I met Sensei Camar once in Angeles City, Philippines and He asked me how my father was. He knew my father personally.
I wont say that I know Sensei Camar personally because it did not came to that level yet but I heard many things about Sensei Camar during the early years years of Aikido in the philippines (Late 1950's early1960's) when Tohei Sensei came to the Philippines and also when Tohei Sensei inaugurated the opening of the Angeles Aikido Club (Late 1950's).
When the conflict between Kisshomaru Sensei and Tohei Sensei started, many high ranking aikidoka's broke up with the Aikikai and joined the Ki Society. The Angeles Aikido Club under Sensei Chan Hoc Seng sided with benjamin galarpe and joined the Ki Society but with respect to the Aiki Kai which gave blessings to the Angeles Aikido Club, Chan Hoc Seng closed the school formally. Regarding Sensei Camar, in respect to Tohei Sensei and the Aiki Kai, he decided to be on the neutral side. About His 8th Degree, regardless of whoever gave it, I think the old man is qualified for it.
He is the head of the manila aikido club same thing with the heads of other groups. May I ask if any body knew who gave the grades of the old masters during their time? Did we questioned those grades?
Maybe the problem with Aikido in the philippines is jealousy and way of thinking. Sensei Camar, Sensei Galarpe, Sensei Chan hocseng were all propmoted by the Aiki Kai during the old times. And old martial artist, not only Aiki Do, in the philippines knew that Sensei Camar was the chief instuctor of Aiki Kai when Aiki Do was still very young. Other Aikido groups who claims to be this and that, Do you really know the history of Aiki Do in the Philippines? Did it not even entered your mind if your Sensei regardless who they are really did studied Aiki Do with the Aiki Kai or Ki Society or Yoshin Kan or maybe they just learned their moves via book or steven seagal movies? Try to understand your roots before you question somebody else's position. The path teaches Us to learn how to respect not to insult. Sorry to say but sometimes, affiliations can be requested from the Organizations if you pay the registration fee and certificates can be bought on the streets of Avenida. So to you Ritchie Martinez, believe in your Sensei, because of Him you are what you are now. If other groups try to question you again, just ignore them, raise your head up and say OMAR CAMAR is my Sensei. Thats all you'll need.

Mannix Moya
11-13-2008, 02:03 AM
well..I gotta say it then.. Omar Camar is the sensei of my sensei!:)

ken zen ichii
11-13-2008, 04:42 AM
well..I gotta say it then.. Omar Camar is the sensei of my sensei!:)
Well in that case, be proud of your roots Mannix Moya because your Sensei's Sensei is a honorable man. :cool:

Enrique Antonio Reyes
11-13-2008, 06:12 AM
Well in that case, be proud of your roots Mannix Moya because your Sensei's Sensei is a honorable man. :cool:

Thank you Ira for your earlier post. There is no doubt about the sense of pride and loyalty that the Manila Aikido Club/Philippine Aikikai guys feel to have been able to train with Sensei Camar.

Sensei Camar is my Sensei and you have my sincerest gratitude for recognizing his legitimacy in Aikido.

One-Aiki,

Iking

ken zen ichii
11-13-2008, 06:20 PM
Thank you Ira for your earlier post. There is no doubt about the sense of pride and loyalty that the Manila Aikido Club/Philippine Aikikai guys feel to have been able to train with Sensei Camar.

Sensei Camar is my Sensei and you have my sincerest gratitude for recognizing his legitimacy in Aikido.

One-Aiki,

Iking
Hello

I dont know if Sensei Camar still remembers me, I met him at the late Master Rafael Restons, ManJuKa Dojo in Angeles City when I was still in the philippines about 16 years ago.
Can you send him my Greetings and Respect as well. Tell him that Ira Francisco Watanabe,
Son of Guerrero Watanabe Francisco of Wado Ryu Karate Do from Angeles City is sending respect.
Thanks and Godspeed.

Ira.

ken zen ichii
11-13-2008, 08:56 PM
Hello,

Got some updates for all the members of the Defenders Aiki Do Federation under Sensei Rolando Dela Cruz.
Erwin Astorga, a member of the defenders Aiki Do, is presently a Deshi at the Nasu Shiobara City Branch
of the Ai KI Kai here in Japan.
Check the forum for "Filipino Aikido Ka in Japan". :cool:

Mannix Moya
11-14-2008, 03:37 AM
Well in that case, be proud of your roots Mannix Moya because your Sensei's Sensei is a honorable man. :cool:

I'm sure he is, though he doesn't know me personally either.

Enrique Antonio Reyes
11-14-2008, 04:34 AM
Hello

I dont know if Sensei Camar still remembers me, I met him at the late Master Rafael Restons, ManJuKa Dojo in Angeles City when I was still in the philippines about 16 years ago.
Can you send him my Greetings and Respect as well. Tell him that Ira Francisco Watanabe,
Son of Guerrero Watanabe Francisco of Wado Ryu Karate Do from Angeles City is sending respect.
Thanks and Godspeed.

Ira.

Hi Ira, I will send your regards through email. I have not been training at the main dojo recently. Thank you also for the updates. Sensei Dundee Santos, A senior blackbelt of Sensei Camar has recently signed up here in Aikiweb. I hope that you run into him in one of the forums as well.

All the best.

One-Aiki,

Iking

ken zen ichii
11-24-2008, 03:46 AM
Hi, I have seen the copy of the certificate signed and sealed by O sensei and the ni dai me kai cho (Kisshomaru), that was issued to the Manila Aiki Do Club. I do believe that this certificate surpasses all the accreditations of the other organization since it was sealed by the originator himself.
Maybe the Manila Aiki Do Club did not continued or maintained their affiliations with the Aiki Kai but that doesn't mean that they no longer practice the style. By heart and by spirit, they are still Aiki Kai and nobody, not even the so called Aiki Kai affiliated groups can take that away from them. An affiliation can be achieve by paying the required amount set by any organization.
I was able to have a conversation with one of the examiners of the Aiki Kai here in Japan and mentioned to him about Sensei Camar and the
problem of the Aiki Do world in the Philippines. He told me that the only persons that the Aikikai sent to the Philippines was Sensei Tohei, during Sensei Camar's early times and another one whom I
wont mention the name because of the possibility that other groups in the Philippines will take the opportunity to use that paersons name and again claim to be this and that.
One thing for sure, the name of the Japanese Aikido Ka that the Aiki Kai groups in the Philippines are claiming to be the person sent by the Aiki Kai were not mentioned during my conversation with the
Aiki Kai examiner. And when I mentioned some Japanese names to him He nodded and said. "Ano Aiki Do Ka tachi no namae wa kita koto nai desu. Tabun Aiki Kai no sensei janai ne" (I have never heard of those Japanese Aiki Do Ka's names, perhaps they are not official Aiki Kai Sensei's.

Hi to Iking and his friends.

raul rodrigo
11-24-2008, 09:02 AM
Aikikai Hombu, led by Moriteru Ueshiba, has been sending its shihan and shidoin to the Philippines nearly every year since the early 1980s. You need their names too? It is the Camar group that chooses not to attend when these Japanese teachers from Hombu (Yokota, Yasuno, Endo, Sugawara, Kobayashi, Fujita, Seki and many others) come here to give seminars. And Filipinos from the Aikikai affiliated federations have gone and trained in Hombu Dojo under these teachers and others. I am sure even your Japanese friend knows who Seishiro Endo is.

There is no question that Manila Aikido once had an affiliation with Hombu. Just as there is no question that it no longer has an affiliation with Hombu. In itself, it's not a big deal. Training is training. Affiliation in itself is no indication of quality. As I am sure Doshu himself would say.

ken zen ichii
11-25-2008, 07:11 PM
Yes there are instructors being sent by the 合気会本部 every year but only to conduct seminars to be able to correct the moves of every Aiki Kai members. 横田,安野,遠藤,菅原, 小林,藤田, 関, その他の先生方 were all sent to conduct seminars, which we Japanese call KORYU here in japan.
When I mentioned that there were only two persons sent by the 本部, that was to set up or organize the Aiki Kai Philippine branch. Not just to conduct seminars.
But in fairness to Mr. Raul Rodrigo, He is the only one in this conversation who is not a MAC member, admitted that Camar Sensei and his group were affiliated with the Aiki Kai its just that they did not maintained their affiliation. "There is no question that Manila Aikido once had an affiliation with Hombu. Just as there is no question that it no longer has an affiliation with Hombu. In itself, it's not a big deal. Training is training. Affiliation in itself is no indication of quality."
Like Chan Hok Seng of the Angeles Aiki Do Club, Camar Sensei has His own reasons why.
Aiki Do is a very beautiful art. It is about harmony. Why cant all Aiki Do Ka's join hand in hand and forget about all this political non sense and rivalry? Affiliated or not, Having been trained by a Japanese sensei or not, Having a sensei who is for real or just a fictional character, being original or fake, It doesn't matter, what is important is Harmony. After all it is the real essence of Ai Ki Do right?
Godspeed to all. Sayonara.

Watanabe De Gozaimasu,
Domo Arigatou Gozaimashita. Shitsureishimasu.
(渡辺より。 どうもうありがとうございました、失礼します。)

raul rodrigo
11-25-2008, 07:54 PM
As far as I am concerned, there is no rivalry, Ira. I made no statements about one group being allegedly better or worse than the other. I was merely reacting to a statement that seemed to imply that the Japanese teachers we have trained under are not official Aikikai shihan (your post 84, above). They came here, they taught; we go to Tokyo to train. Hayato Ozawa shihan of Hombu (7th dan) came here in the 1990s and asked us to organize a new aikido federation, which has been active for many years.

In this thread, I have only been trying to react to certain statements by MAC members that simply aren't accurate (eg, whether Camar is an Aikikai 8th dan, or whether MAC still has a tie to Hombu). I mean no disrespect to Camar or his dojo.

Mannix Moya
11-26-2008, 01:29 AM
Raul,

Moving forward, would you know how this issue can be resolved? Meaning, what should the blackbelts of break away clubs do to be recognized by the hombu? (Assuming they want this)

raul rodrigo
11-26-2008, 03:01 AM
Raul,

Moving forward, would you know how this issue can be resolved? Meaning, what should the blackbelts of break away clubs do to be recognized by the hombu? (Assuming they want this)

Well, Hombu recognition isn't important for some people and that's fine. Training is still training. Assuming they do, then such a person can link up with an established federation, and if a good rapport is established, he can get certified, eventually taking a shodan exam under a visiting Japanese shihan.

This has actually happened several times within our federation. One of our most talented practitioners was once a combat aikido veteran, a blackbelt with his own dojo. He wanted to go back to the traditional roots and so he went through the kyu process again with our federation. Of course, he was already so good that the testing process at the kyu levels was largely a formality. Then he took his shodan exam with a Japanese shihan. He now has a yudansha passport and is a fully certified member of the Aikikai. Since he travels a lot, he can and does get recognition as dan rank holder (nidan at the moment, though he is way overdue for sandan) in any Aikikai dojo in the world.

It takes time to get recertified and it may not be worth it for some. But it may be worth thinking about for others,

Best,

R

Enrique Antonio Reyes
11-26-2008, 07:03 AM
Raul,

Moving forward, would you know how this issue can be resolved? Meaning, what should the blackbelts of break away clubs do to be recognized by the hombu? (Assuming they want this)

Hi Mannix, I believe that the best thing is as what you just said...to move forward. Raul's answer is pretty much it. Another way to move forward is what you have been doing all along (me once)... Joining open practice with other Traditional Aikido Blackbelts.:rolleyes:

Hi Raul, I guess this has become a "vicious cycle" for all of us already. No argument really, based on roots our "style" is Aikikai but the "affiliation" will be marked independent...just a thought.:ai:

Hi Ira,

Thanks again for sharing your perspective regarding the matter. Please do keep in touch and do inform us here if ever you plan to visit our country.:)

One-Aiki,

Iking

Mannix Moya
11-26-2008, 10:22 AM
Raul,

Thanks.

Iking,

Yep, I just want have some practice every week. And I really appreciate the gesture extended by the affiliated blackbelts.

ken zen ichii
11-26-2008, 07:27 PM
Ohayo Gozaimasu.

Hi. First of all let us refrain from using the word break away group.
Many Japanese High Ranking Aikido Ka's resigned their position from the Aiki Kai and started their own groups. This groups are by products of Aiki Kai. Many Dojo's from around the world were granted affiliations to this Groups. Camar Sensei, in his case decided to be on the neutral side and be independent from all political conflicts, I guess.

About respect, Here in Japan, it is disrespectful to address a person with a kyoshi grade as Sensei regardless of affiliations, regardless of art (Karate Do, Ken Do, Iai Do Etc.) It is disrespectful to call them by names alone. You always put the term Sensei after his name or Sempai after the name of your seniors or plain San after the names of anybody. Only people who has high status can call a person on his or her name, like Company president, and other people who are higher than you. Also Yakuza's do not use san to other people only to their Bosses.

About a group in the Philippines, Tapondo, Can anyone who has connections with that group ask the founder why Tapondo? I do believe the name Combat Aikido is far better. Correct me if I am wrong, Tapon is tagalog for throw and Do is Japanese for way, Diba?
Just asking.

Mannix Moya
11-26-2008, 08:23 PM
Ohayo Gozaimasu.
Hi. First of all let us refrain from using the word break away group.


For MAC, I don't think it broke away. It just didn't renew its affiliation. When I started aikido in 2001, I naturally checked the credentials of Philippine Aikikai. At that time, we believed that the 8th DAN was given by the Hombu. It was only when I earned my black belt that the things began clearing up. IMHO, we never deviated from the style, and more importantly, the spirit of aikido. Its just that we missed the developments cascading from the hombu.


About respect, Here in Japan, it is disrespectful to address a person with a kyoshi grade as Sensei regardless of affiliations, regardless of art (Karate Do, Ken Do, Iai Do Etc.) It is disrespectful to call them by names alone. You always put the term Sensei after his name or Sempai after the name of your seniors or plain San after the names of anybody. Only people who has high status can call a person on his or her name, like Company president, and other people who are higher than you. Also Yakuza's do not use san to other people only to their Bosses.


What's a "kyoshi grade?"

Ohayo Gozaimasu.
About a group in the Philippines, Tapondo, Can anyone who has connections with that group ask the founder why Tapondo? I do believe the name Combat Aikido is far better. Correct me if I am wrong, Tapon is tagalog for throw and Do is Japanese for way, Diba?
Just asking.

Yes, TAPON is tagalog for throw. Do is Japanese for way. As to how and why Gavileno's group changed the name, I have no idea:)

Also, the history of Gavileno is hazy to me.

Cynrod
11-26-2008, 11:42 PM
What's a "kyoshi grade?"

I think Kyoshi grade is from 7th dan rank and above before the Hanshi grade. I know the word Kyo in Kyoshi means Professor or Phylosophy, and so Kyoshi equals a Professor capable of teaching the Phylosophy of the Martial Arts.

Yes, TAPON is tagalog for throw. Do is Japanese for way. As to how and why Gavileno's group changed the name, I have no idea:)
Also, the history of Gavileno is hazy to me.[/QUOTE]

I think as long as they train and practice in Aikido is what count the most. That's what O'sensei want isn't it?

It's been a while sinced I've been in the Philippines but I am planning ahead for a next year visit there. March or June maybe?

Salamat sa Lahat (Thanks to all).

Godspeed

ken zen ichii
11-27-2008, 01:21 AM
Kyoshi Grade or Kyoshi level.

Kyoshi is Japanese for teacher. Actually it is not Sensei.
Sensei means a person who is wiser or who has more knowledge than you. Sensei is used to address a teacher, doctors, lawyers. Sen means before and sei means born, So literally translated the one who is born before you.
Kyoshi is teacher, but you will not call your teacher as kyoshi. You will still address Him as Sensei.

Hanshi and Shihan are also titles of high ranking level but again they are titles, Sensei is still the proper address and sometimes Renshi can also be used to address a person who is 5th degree above.

About respect, I brought this up because I noticed that some people in the Philippines address Camar Sensei as Camar and no sensei after or before it. As I have mentioned in #92 here in Japan We always address them as Sensei even if He is from Shin Shin Toitsu, Kokikai, Yoshinkan. A sensei is a sensei, a senior is a senior, regardless of his style or affiliations.

Hello Mannix, Regards to Iking.

CitoMaramba
11-27-2008, 03:14 AM
From the Tapondo International Website:
TAPONDO comes from two words, Tapon and Pondo. TAPON means to throw and PONDO means to pin down or to lock. This is because the techniques in TAPONDO is basically throwing and locking.
As for the reason for the name change from Combat Aikido:
By May 2000, this Filipino martial art was completely developed. The research was still going on for the name that will be to the arts itself and at the same time be part of the culture that Filipinos will be proud of. On October 28, 2000 he discovered two existing words from the Filipino dictionary. The first word is TAPON and the second word is PONDO. TAPON means to throw and PONDO to pin down or lock. If TAPON and PONDO were joined together, a new word TAPONDO came out meaning to throw and pin down at the same time. In the Filipino Dictionary, we don't have TAPONDO word that will describe this art of throwing and locking simultaneously.

TAPONDO was later defined as a Filipino method of self-defense based on the principle of non-aggressive martial arts.
http://tapondo.page.tl/Home.htm

What I have heard is that Mr. Gavileno wanted his art to be part of the curriculum of primary and secondary schools in the Philippines... the Department of Education wanted indigenous arts to be taught in schools and so having an art with a Japanese name was out of the question. Thus, the name of the art was changed to one of Philippine origin to fit this criteria.

Enrique Antonio Reyes
11-27-2008, 03:44 AM
What I have heard is that Mr. Gavileno wanted his art to be part of the curriculum of primary and secondary schools in the Philippines... the Department of Education wanted indigenous arts to be taught in schools and so having an art with a Japanese name was out of the question. Thus, the name of the art was changed to one of Philippine origin to fit this criteria.

I believe that this is pretty much the reason for the name. I honestly don't think renaming an art just because you changed or added a technique is such a good idea.

I do admire Mr. Gavileno for his drive towards creating his own niche in the local martial arts community.

Hi Mannix, I have heard personally from one of our seniors that the 8th Dan was signed by Tohei. I am guessing (this is just me now) just right before he formed his own group.

Hi Ira, I guess Sensei Camar being neutral to get rid of politics is one way of putting it. Thank you also for the bits and pieces of inputs you provide for us. Have a nice day/evening to you.

Hi Rod! God bless

Hey Cito! Pinsan! Hope to meet you soon!

One-Aiki,

Iking

Peter Goldsbury
11-27-2008, 04:56 AM
What's a "kyoshi grade?"

I think Kyoshi grade is from 7th dan rank and above before the Hanshi grade. I know the word Kyo in Kyoshi means Professor or Phylosophy, and so Kyoshi equals a Professor capable of teaching the Phylosophy of the Martial Arts.



Hello,

You might be referring to the term kyoushi outside aikido or even outside the martial arts. In my experience, it is not used in aikido and is a specific job category in a school or university. The first character of kyoushi 教師 is 教, which is also read as 教える oshieru. It means to teach. It does not specifically mean professor (which is 教授 kyouju) or philosophy (which is 哲学 tetsugaku). I am a retired kyouju and have been teaching tetsugaku here in Hiroshima for nearly 30 years.

This thread is basically about people who were or are affiliated in some way to the Aikikai, but I am pretty certain that kyoushi has never been used as a teaching rank in the Aikikai. As far as I am aware, the teaching ranks are shihan 師範, shidouin 指導員, fukushidouin 副指導員. Of course, the tern sensei 先生 is used as a title, and would be used of all the various categories given above. It does not necessarily imply respect for the person, so much as respect for the tatemae (official, public, 'face' of the art or culture).

As I stated in an earlier post, I have no wish to enter into the politics of aikido in the Philippines, but I can repeat what I stated in the earlier post: at present there are no non-Japanese 8th dan holders recognized by the Aikikai.

Best wishes to all,

ken zen ichii
11-27-2008, 06:02 AM
Konichiwa Goldsberry San,

I see that you are now here in Japan.
I dont know much about other Aikido Dojo or about the system that they use in hiroshima in general.

I was in Hiroshima last month (Mazda Plant). My work is about plant engineering and I specialize in environmental kind of stuffs. I travel a lot
wherever there is a need for expertise that is. I was in Hiroshima for a week and I surely had difficulties understanding the local dialect.

Back to kyoushi thing, Yes I was referring to that kyoushi but here in the Kanto region, Kyoushi is not limited to schools alone. They also use it in Martial arts specially Kendo and Karate Do and I've seen some
Aikido Kyoushitsu wherein the Heads title is neither Kan Cho nor Dojo Cho but kyoushi.
About the politics in Philippine Aiki Do, I am not into contesting any body's grade but I am just wondering how come the affiliated groups
looks down to independent groups.

About Hiroshima, very beautiful place, I've seen the Genbaku Dome and other places. I stayed in a hotel near the dome.

well any way nice to meet you, even just in this forum, Godspeed.

Ira Watanabe
CEO/President
Watanabe Systems Co.
渡辺 暖羅
代表取締役社長
ワタナベシステムズ商会

Peter Goldsbury
11-27-2008, 06:57 AM
Komban wa, Watanabe-san,

Many thanks for your post. I give a few more comments, just to clear up any misunderstanding.

Konichiwa Goldsberry San,
PAG. Actually, my surmane is spelt Goldsbury.

I see that you are now here in Japan.
PAG. Yes, I have been living here for nearly 30 years, as I stated in my post.

I dont know much about other Aikido Dojo or about the system that they use in hiroshima in general.
PAG. Hiroshima University is a former national university and I suspect that the job categories are the same in all the former national universities. So there is not a general system here. As for aikido, I was referring to the Aikikai Hombu and affiliates.

I was in Hiroshima last month (Mazda Plant). My work is about plant engineering and I specialize in environmental kind of stuffs. I travel a lot
wherever there is a need for expertise that is. I was in Hiroshima for a week and I surely had difficulties understanding the local dialect.
PAG. I can understand your difficulties with Hiroshima-ben. Do you know many members of the Philippine community here?

Back to kyoushi thing, Yes I was referring to that kyoushi but here in the Kanto region, Kyoushi is not limited to schools alone. They also use it in Martial arts specially Kendo and Karate Do and I've seen some
Aikido Kyoushitsu wherein the Heads title is neither Kan Cho nor Dojo Cho but kyoushi.
PAG. Is this for dojo in the Aikikai? Given the number of titles for teacher in Japanese, I would not be surprised if some dojo sekininsha have used the term, but I do bot think it is general within the Aikikai.

About the politics in Philippine Aiki Do, I am not into contesting any body's grade but I am just wondering how come the affiliated groups looks down to independent groups.
PAG. My only direct experience of meeting Philippine aikidouka is at the IAF Congres, when we meet members of PAPA. In the aikido world, which is small, comparatively new, and rather inward-looking, independent groups tend to imply break-away groups.

Note that I am not stating that to break away is bad: it might be necessary, or even inevitable. Too often, people like to pretend that the Japanese martial arts, especially non-competitive ( = 'peaceful') arts like aikido, are a seamless web of harmony. However, this does not really square with historical accuracy.

In aikido, or aiki-budo, many of the early deshi of Morihei Ueshiba established their own organizations on the iemoto model--and the Founder maintained links with these deshi, even though they were no longer affiliated to the Aikikai. The Aikikai, on its part, in the past has demonstrated a lack of sensitivity for important cultural issues. It has had too narrow a 'mental framework' and has tried to force all overseas organization into this tight framework. This never works--and I think the present Doshu is coming to understand this. Thus, there is far more emphasis placed on Aikikai groups talking to each other and training with each other. In some countries this means creating an umbrella organization where everyone has a respected place. This is now happening: but in other countries it is still too early--the weight of past memories is too heavy.

About Hiroshima, very beautiful place, I've seen the Genbaku Dome and other places. I stayed in a hotel near the dome.

well any way nice to meet you, even just in this forum, Godspeed.

Ira Watanabe
CEO/President
Watanabe Systems Co.
渡辺 暖羅
代表取締役社長
ワタナベシステムズ商会
PAG. Well, when you come again, you should look me up and we can meet and talk over dinner. My dojo is in Higashi-Hiroshima City.

Best wishes,

PAG

raul rodrigo
11-27-2008, 08:15 AM
Let me pose a historical question to the MAC members reading this thread, because frankly I too am puzzled by it. Sensei Camar and his MAC dojo seems to have been the sole Hombu representative in this country from 1964 until sometime before 1981, when the baton of Hombu affiliation was apparently passed to the Pilipinas Aikido Propagation Association led by Johnny Tenegra and Robert Soliven. (See Loreto Torres's post on the first page of this thread.) It seems that PAPA and MAC may have had common roots at some point, but Tenegra and Soliven took the organization in another direction and MAC from that point on was apparently not part of the picture in terms of relating to Hombu. PAPA was then the sole Hombu representative from the early 1980s until 1992, when a second federation was formed.

Is my reading of history accurate? If so, how and why did that happen? Does this event, the shift of Hombu affiliation, have anything to do with the decision of MAC thereafter not to attend any seminars taught by the visiting Hombu shihan?

I ask because I am not a member of PAPA and I entered the local aikido scene in 1996, way after these events took place. At the time there were two Filipino federations, PAPA and Aikido Philippines. My dojo was a member of Aikido Philippines. I have some friends in PAPA but they too started in aikido way after 1981.

I understand that some people may see this question as raking up the past, but I am truly curious about what came before.

best,

R

Mannix Moya
11-27-2008, 10:00 AM
Hi Mannix, I have heard personally from one of our seniors that the 8th Dan was signed by Tohei. I am guessing (this is just me now) just right before he formed his own group.



Hi Iking,

Given the chronology of events that I have seen here, I doubt it. Its a fact that Camar Sensei didn't join the Ki Society.

And granted that its true, then the dan grade didn't come from hombu.

Mannix Moya
11-27-2008, 10:01 AM
Let me pose a historical question to ...

I started learning aikido in 2001 and I'm not a direct student of Camar Sensei, so I'm curious as well.

raul rodrigo
11-27-2008, 10:16 AM
Iking, if that were true, then Omar Camar sensei would have started aikido in 1966 and then gotten to hachidan before 1974, which is when Tohei left the Aikikai. It's hard enough to get to nidan in eight years, but 8th dan is really a stretch.

To go back to my question: in an earlier post, Arnold Mina made a reference to "dojo politics" leading to some kind of break between Camar sensei and Johnny Tenegra. But that doesn't answer the question of why the Hombu affiliation went with Tenegra and did not stay with the MAC.

Enrique Antonio Reyes
11-27-2008, 12:37 PM
Iking, if that were true, then Omar Camar sensei would have started aikido in 1966 and then gotten to hachidan before 1974, which is when Tohei left the Aikikai. It's hard enough to get to nidan in eight years, but 8th dan is really a stretch.

To go back to my question: in an earlier post, Arnold Mina made a reference to "dojo politics" leading to some kind of break between Camar sensei and Johnny Tenegra. But that doesn't answer the question of why the Hombu affiliation went with Tenegra and did not stay with the MAC.

Raul/Mannix,

I didn't say it was fact. It's just something I was told and something I guessed...:crazy:

Hi Raul, can't really help you much with the history nor with the decisions of the MAC leadership in the past actually even the present:p (as I am not really "active" as of the moment)

See you guys around.

One-Aiki,

Iking

ken zen ichii
11-27-2008, 06:58 PM
Konichiwa Goldsbury San,

Please accept my humble apology for misspelling your name. Sumimasen deshita.

I dont know how to explain this to you but it is true that some Aiki Do Dojo's here in northern Kanto Area uses the term kyoushi. I did not say that the Aiki Kai is using it as in general. About the term kyoushi not being used in Japanese martial arts, I have been practicing Wado Karate Do (Wado, which means Way of Peace and Harmony) is a style of karate but circular in motion unlike other karate school which are linear karate, Almost all karate schools has their roots from China via Okinawa but Wado is a descendant of Shindo Yoshin Ryu Jujitsu and uses not one's owns power but instead to disbalance an opponent.) since I was 5 years old Inow hold the rank of Roku Dan and I am a Renshi.
In Karate, We use the term Kyoushi and also a friend of mine who is an apprentice Kendo Instructor also uses the term Kyoushi in their Dojo.

(#92, About respect, Here in Japan, it is disrespectful to address a person with a kyoshi grade as Sensei regardless of affiliations, regardless of art (Karate Do, Ken Do, Iai Do Etc.) It is disrespectful to call them by names alone.) The ones in bold letters, I had an error while typing the words,it should be, It is disrespectful to address a person with kyoshi grade regardless of what he is teaching, by his name and the word Sensei must always be mentioned after His/Her name. I noticed this now so I have to put a correction on it.

Regarding the political problems of the Aiki Do Ka's in the Philippines, My mother is a Filipina and she met my Dad in the Mid 1950's in the Philippines. (My Dad was one of the 3 people responsible for the practice of Wado Karate in the Philippines.)
So that makes me a Nikkei Jin and because I am partly Filipino, it bothers me when I see Filipinos having misunderstanding about this matter. If MAC says they are this and they are that, that is because they believe that they are this and they are that, Now the affiliated ones, If you know that you are the affiliated ones, why not just let it be that way and stop pressing the other groups that they are not affiliated. Maybe if you all just keep quite and be harmonious with each other who knows, maybe Aiki Do Philippines will become a one umbrella organization in the future.

I do believe that this is all for me now. Its been nice having a conversations with all of you guys and keep up your training.

Goldsbury Sensei, Domo arigatougozaimashita. I will call you when I go back to Hiroshima. I usually stay at the Hiroshima Intelligent Hotel. I am now an Aiki Do Deshi and maybe a Sempai to Kohai kind of talk will be good over a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Ira Watanabe
Chief Instructor
Ken Zen Ichii Wado Kai Karate Do
Nasu Dojo, Tochigi Ken, Japan

Peter Goldsbury
11-28-2008, 08:02 AM
Komban wa, Watanabe San,

Many thanks for your mail. I would like to make one more point, with reference to the part of your post quoted below.

It surprises me that different aikido organizations in a country cannot even talk to each other in a civilized manner--and I do not mean just in South-east Asia. (I will not name names, but I am not thinking of the Philippines here.) Some countries in Europe are just as bad. Japan is the same, especially in Hiroshima, for here it is a case of different dojo in the same local city. So I would not suggest being harmonious by keeping quiet, but being harmonious by being ready to converse with each other in an atmosphere of mutual respect.In my experience, umbrella organizations succeed, not because of silence, but because of mutual respect for a 'protocol of civilized conversation', which leads to mutual trust and a readiness to forget the old slights and insults.


Regarding the political problems of the Aiki Do Ka's in the Philippines, My mother is a Filipina and she met my Dad in the Mid 1950's in the Philippines. (My Dad was one of the 3 people responsible for the practice of Wado Karate in the Philippines.)
So that makes me a Nikkei Jin and because I am partly Filipino, it bothers me when I see Filipinos having misunderstanding about this matter. If MAC says they are this and they are that, that is because they believe that they are this and they are that, Now the affiliated ones, If you know that you are the affiliated ones, why not just let it be that way and stop pressing the other groups that they are not affiliated. Maybe if you all just keep quite and be harmonious with each other who knows, maybe Aiki Do Philippines will become a one umbrella organization in the future.

Ira Watanabe
Chief Instructor
Ken Zen Ichii Wado Kai Karate Do
Nasu Dojo, Tochigi Ken, Japan

I very rarely meet those with whom I correspond on Aikiweb. So I look forward to meeting you soon.

Best wishes,

PAG

raul rodrigo
11-28-2008, 09:08 AM
Dear Professor Goldsbury:

I agree that keeping quiet is probably not the optimal strategy for these situations. It allows old wounds to fester and tends to keep aikidoka in their own ghettoes. I have a feeling in fact, that some of the strong reactions directed at the affiliated aikidoka on this thread (Rommel Miel, Graeme, myself) have less to do with what we are actually saying, but from people reading into our statements some motivations and intentions that stem from incidents 20 or 30 years ago that we know nothing about and have nothing to do with. (Hence my question above, post 101, about the roots of the disharmony between PAPA and MAC.) There are apparently "old slights and insults" in the Philippine aikido world, as you say, that I am not aware of but which are still potent. But keeping quiet, as Ira suggests, will just maintain the mutual misunderstanding.

I am all for an atmosphere of mutual respect. I think I have tried to keep to a civil level of discourse in this thread. If I haven't achieved that, then my apologies to all concerned.

best,

R

ken zen ichii
11-29-2008, 01:04 AM
Konichiwa,

I think Rodrigo San misundestood when I mentioned keep quite.
Being quite doesn't mean that you have to "keep your mouth shut"
but instead try to speak or have a conversation that will be able to solve the current situation. Maybe, you guys dont notice this but all of you are just trying to insult each other, affiliated or not you are all Aiki Do Ka's, and all of you came from the same roots in one way or another. If the leaders of all the groups do not want to talk why not you, the younger generations try to start solving it by at least trying to meet with each other and having a friendly conversation. Some independent members are doing cross training with the affiliated ones to learn, didn't
it occurred to the affiliated ones that they may also learn something from the independent ones.

Domo, Sitsureishimashita.
Watanabe yori.

raul rodrigo
11-29-2008, 08:54 AM
Ira-san:

Perhaps the younger aikidoka are in fact doing that kind of process right now. Perhaps our presence on this website is part of that process. Just the other week, I was in Iloilo where I got in contact with an unaffiliated dojo, whose people I like (like Jack Tentia) and whose late sensei, Francisco Valencia, deserved respect. I wasn't able to train with them on this trip due to unavoidable circumstances but I fully intend to return several times in the next few months and I would like to take classes with Jack and Carlo and the rest of them.

My dojo mates and I have taken some classes under a Yoshinkan Hombu shidoin. My federation mates and I have taken classes from Hitohiro Saito of the Iwama Shuren group. One sensei has trained with an instructor from the Shudokan/Tomiki Hombu. We have never said that the Aikikai is all that we need to understand aikido. Even cross training in judo has been very helpful to us.

In short, Ira-san, please try to understand where I am coming from. I think you have a certain preconceived notion of what I am and what I am trying to do. My getting in touch with people like Jack and Iking and Mannix is part of my own attempt to get to know the other side of Philippine aikido better. I hope that my posts on this thread are ultimately about getting some Filipino aikidoka closer together, not further apart.

best regards,

RAUL

ken zen ichii
11-29-2008, 05:40 PM
Konichiwa,

Well in that case Rodrigo San, You have may support and respect to your way. It is good that you are trying to mingle with them. About Camar Sensei's grade, maybe it would be better if we will try to know him better first before we question his grades, know his reasons for it, maybe He meant 8th Dan as his grade as awarded by other group and his Dojo is still using the Aiki kai way as style of training.
I don't know Camar Sensei that much and as I have said before, I can't tell that I know him personally because it is unfortunate that it has not reached that level. I would really love to meet Him again and know him better. But based upon the words that I heard and about the things and efforts that he did for the development of Aiki Do in the Philippines, I think the old man deserves a kind of respect any Sensei deserves.
I am a Roku Dan in Wado Karate Do, but because I believe that Aiki Do is a beautiful art I am willing to go back to zero and start again and practice Aikido wherein in fact I am now an Aiki Do Deshi here in my area.
Oh and one thing, do not put - in between the name and the san, It should be Ira San and not Ira-San, actually it should be Watanabe San as the way Goldsbury Sensei addressed me but in my case, my first name Ira will do but not with other Japanese.
Btw. Rodrigo San, How old are you? If you don't mind me asking.

Godspeed,
Ira Watanabe

raul rodrigo
11-29-2008, 07:14 PM
Gomen nasai, Watanabe san. My mistake.

I am 43. I have been training for only 12 years.

best,

RAUL

Peter Goldsbury
11-29-2008, 08:05 PM
Hello Raul,

I think that your behaviour in this thread is not open to question. Given the sensitivities involved, the level of discourse in the thread has been exemplary.

As the elected head of a large international aikido organization, I am very interested in why organizatiions split into groups and, as I stated in an earlier post, the Philippines is no exception to a more general pattern. I suspect that the 'westernization' of aikido, especially since the war, has led to greater awareness of this phenomenon, which has been occurring in Japan for a much longer time, well before the creation of aikido.

I say 'westernization', because I am not aware of a corresponding 'asianization' of aikido. This a very interesting question, especially in view of O Sensei's belief in Omoto and his friendship with Okawa Shumei, who was a strong exponent of 'pan-asianism' as a counterbalance to the 'westernization' he saw taking place from the Meiji Restoration onwards.

Best wishes,

PAG

Dear Professor Goldsbury:

I agree that keeping quiet is probably not the optimal strategy for these situations. It allows old wounds to fester and tends to keep aikidoka in their own ghettoes. I have a feeling in fact, that some of the strong reactions directed at the affiliated aikidoka on this thread (Rommel Miel, Graeme, myself) have less to do with what we are actually saying, but from people reading into our statements some motivations and intentions that stem from incidents 20 or 30 years ago that we know nothing about and have nothing to do with. (Hence my question above, post 101, about the roots of the disharmony between PAPA and MAC.) There are apparently "old slights and insults" in the Philippine aikido world, as you say, that I am not aware of but which are still potent. But keeping quiet, as Ira suggests, will just maintain the mutual misunderstanding.

I am all for an atmosphere of mutual respect. I think I have tried to keep to a civil level of discourse in this thread. If I haven't achieved that, then my apologies to all concerned.

best,

R

raul rodrigo
11-29-2008, 08:44 PM
Dear Prof. Goldsbury:

Thank you.

With regard to the phenomenon of budo organizations splitting up, let me offer the counter example of judo in the Philippines. There has been only one federation since the 1950s, the Philippine Amateur Judo Association (PAJA). I have been told by a yondan friend of mine from PAJA that they are as troubled by internal rivalries and animosities as Philippine aikido. But everyone stays inside the same "house" nonetheless. They do not break away and try to get a separate recognition from the International Judo Federation. I don't know the precise reasons why, but the odds are that the IJF would not grant a breakaway group their recognition anyway, and without that recognition, participation of Philippine judoka in international tournaments would be cut off. This provides, I think, a strong disincentive toward centrifugal forces/urges/impulses within Philippine judo.

In your opinion, does the Hombu policy of recognizing more than one federation per country provide a greater incentive toward centrifugal movements/breakaways? In our country, there are now four federations (up from only one in 1991) and a fifth group is currently organizing and hoping for Hombu recognition. What is the IAF's experience with sticking to recognizing only one per country? Does it ease tensions, increase tensions or both? Sometimes I feel that the aikido splits in our country were really unfortunate, and at others, I know that some of our older teachers have such strong personal animosities among themselves that it would have been a great strain to keep them all under the same roof.

Best,

RAUL

Peter Goldsbury
11-29-2008, 10:02 PM
Hello Raul,

Here are some very brief responses to your observations and questions.

Dear Prof. Goldsbury:

Thank you.

With regard to the phenomenon of budo organizations splitting up, let me offer the counter example of judo in the Philippines. There has been only one federation since the 1950s, the Philippine Amateur Judo Association (PAJA). I have been told by a yondan friend of mine from PAJA that they are as troubled by internal rivalries and animosities as Philippine aikido. But everyone stays inside the same "house" nonetheless. They do not break away and try to get a separate recognition from the International Judo Federation. I don't know the precise reasons why, but the odds are that the IJF would not grant a breakaway group their recognition anyway, and without that recognition, participation of Philippine judoka in international tournaments would be cut off. This provides, I think, a strong disincentive toward centrifugal forces/urges/impulses within Philippine judo.

PAG. Personally, I suspect that the Aikikai sometimes have nightmares about aikido becoming like judo. Since O Sensei did not permit competition in aikido, it was never possible for winning and losing in aikido tournaments to become a mark of quality in aikido. In any case, Kano Jigoro was closely connected with the revival of the Olympic movement under Pierre de Coubertin, and I believe that the IOC recognizes only one international federation for each sport. The member federations of the IOC, in their turn, recognize only one national federation per country.

That the IAF also has this model is due, I think, to its origins in European judo. Aikido was originally practised in Europe by judoka who also wanted to practise aikido and one of the early Japanese shihans who went to Europe established his aikido organizations in each country under the general aegis of judo. This was very reasonable at the time, but was actually a certain recipe for problems, which did arise later on.

In your opinion, does the Hombu policy of recognizing more than one federation per country provide a greater incentive toward centrifugal movements/breakaways? In our country, there are now four federations (up from only one in 1991) and a fifth group is currently organizing and hoping for Hombu recognition. What is the IAF's experience with sticking to recognizing only one per country? Does it ease tensions, increase tensions or both? Sometimes I feel that the aikido splits in our country were really unfortunate, and at others, I know that some of our older teachers have such strong personal animosities among themselves that it would have been a great strain to keep them all under the same roof.

Best,

RAUL

PAG. The Aikikai were led to change their international regulations because of animosities among the Japanese shihans in Europe, but it was their students who brought these animosities into the open--at the 3rd IAF Congress held in Paris in 1980. The IAF, by the way, is very closely tied to international recognition and this is why it was created. I do not know about the Philippines, but many aikido organizations need recognition from a recognized international federation, in order to have access to public facilities for training and to receive government grants. Some countries do not exercise such control over the martial arts and the aikido organizations in these countries have no need of the IAF. However, many do--and the number is increasing.

I think it is very unlikely that the IAF will change its present policy of restricting membership to one organization per country. Some Japanese shihans would like the IAF to change, but the vast majority of delegates who attend the Congress are against such a change.

Best wishes,

PAG

ken zen ichii
11-30-2008, 12:06 AM
Hello Rodrigo San,

Please call me by my first name, Ira and do not include san on it. Its been a long time since I visited the philippines and WOW it changed. Naliligaw ako and masyadong ma traffick.
Youre 42, Hindi tayo nagkakalayo ng edad.
I was born and raised in the Philippines of a Japanese Filipino Ancestry. I am a descendant of a Samurai Clan that were employed at the Osaka Castle during the early times of Japan but my ancestors finally settled in a place now called Kawagoe in Saitama.
Hoping to continue our conversations not only in this topic but on other subjects as well.
There will be a large Aiki Do Congress that will be held in the Nippon Budokan in Tokyo next year. Will you Guys be there.
Erwin Astorga, a former deshi of Rolando Delacruz will be with His Aiki Kai Sensei on that event (not yet confirmed though). Maybe We will have the chance to meet each other during that time.

Godspeed
Ira
Gomen nasai, Watanabe san. My mistake.

I am 43. I have been training for only 12 years.

best,

RAUL

raul rodrigo
11-30-2008, 07:09 AM
If you mean the next All Nippon Aikido Embutaikai, then I definitely would like to be there. I have never been to one; all I've done is collect the All-Japan demo videos for several years. But I don't know this early what my schedule is going to be in May 2009 so it's hard to say. Certainly it would be good to meet up with you and any other Filipinos like Edwin A. who train in Tokyo. At the Embu, you might also run into Rene Vencer, who is training at the Hombu these days, I hear, or Romy Ballares and Francis Angeles, two Yoshinkan blackbelts who are friends of ours and very good aikidoka to boot. Kababayan are kababayan, after all.

best regards,

RAUL

ken zen ichii
11-30-2008, 06:30 PM
Konichiwa,

About Aiki Do in the Philippines, How come that there are 4 groups that is affiliated with the Aiki Kai? 4 Groups with 4 leaders, Why not One Aiki Kai Philippines as Country chapter and under that Aiki Kai Philippines are branch chapter? Wouldn't that be more better? Just asking because I can't find a reason for this part.

渡辺 暖羅

raul rodrigo
12-01-2008, 01:11 AM
Yes, Ira, that would be the ideal situation. But we are not living in an ideal situation. Three of the current federations have their roots in the same federation, Aikido Philippines, born in 1992, split in 1997 and gave rise to FFA. A third federation was formed around 2005 by a senior teacher who was also formerly with Aikido Philippines. The seniors in control of the federations have a not too happy history with each other, which led to the splits. For these seniors, the level of personal animosity and the memory of past problems makes the prospect of reunification and/or close cooperation a very iffy proposition. We are a long way from what Prof Goldsbury called for in his earlier post: "mutual respect for a 'protocol of civilized conversation', which leads to mutual trust and a readiness to forget the old slights and insults."

best,

RAUL

ken zen ichii
12-01-2008, 07:25 AM
Yes, Ira, that would be the ideal situation. But we are not living in an ideal situation. Three of the current federations have their roots in the same federation, Aikido Philippines, born in 1992, split in 1997 and gave rise to FFA. A third federation was formed around 2005 by a senior teacher who was also formerly with Aikido Philippines. The seniors in control of the federations have a not too happy history with each other, which led to the splits. For these seniors, the level of personal animosity and the memory of past problems makes the prospect of reunification and/or close cooperation a very iffy proposition. We are a long way from what Prof Goldsbury called for in his earlier post: "mutual respect for a 'protocol of civilized conversation', which leads to mutual trust and a readiness to forget the old slights and insults."

best,

RAUL

Hello,

Well in seems that fixing the problem will be close to impossible.
Maybe the junior members of all this groups should wait for their time to be the leaders of this groups and then if they wish they can, maybe, do something about this matter.
Master Otsuka, Founder of Wado Ryu Karate Do once said, the difference between possible and impossible is once will, so maybe when the time comes and their wounds from the not so happy past heals, maybe, just maybe, not only the Aiki Kai Philippines but all Aiki Do Ka's in the Philippines will unite.
If you dont mind me asking, When the Japanese Instructors from Aiki Kai goes to Philippines, usually how long do they stay to teach?
Training in the Hombu, actually it is not difficult, any body can go there, if you are a member just show your credentials and you can start, they have a daily basis rate on their training fee. For those not affiliated with the Aiki Kai all they have to do is sign up for Aiki Kai membership at the counter and they will be ready for training.
About the 2 filipinos in Yoshinkan, I think they entered the Uchi Deshi program, but for the filipinos in Aiki Kai hombu, I dont have a clue on which system they availed because if you have a tourist Visa here in Japan, which is for 3 months, you can already attend to their session which is not so expensive, siguro nga mas mahal pa sa Pilipinas, but for the Uchi Deshi system, you will need a long term Visa and a great deal of money because the Board and Lodging for the program is expensive. I think Ki Society Hombu, which is located about an hour from my house by car, is the most expensive, Not sure about the price, but Ive seen the place, Man, what a beautiful place. Complete facilities, Dormitories, Halls and Dojo's kanya nga lang nakakatakot ang presyo nila. How about you? Dont you have plans of joining the program?

OK got to go cause I will be on a 1,200 kilometer drive tomorrow for my project site in Shimane Prefecture, Got to drive the whole day tomorrow.

watanabe Ira

Drixster
12-08-2008, 07:45 AM
Hello to everyone..Im Eric Phil. Aikikai sensei during the 90's hope they still remember me. So whats the hot topic here? im not always online here but it seems previously there was a hot conversation regarding Omar Camar and legitimacy of the Phil Aikikai?

raul rodrigo
12-08-2008, 07:53 AM
Hello to everyone..Im Eric Phil. Aikikai sensei during the 90's hope they still remember me. So whats the hot topic here? im not always online here but it seems previously there was a hot conversation regarding Omar Camar and legitimacy of the Phil Aikikai?

Please read the entire thread.

best,

R

reyne caritativo
12-09-2008, 05:31 AM
Hello there, I'm back. Sorry if it took me this llllonggg to reply to this thread. First of all, my apologies to Mr. William Hazen regarding Jun Batobalani Sensei's claim of being a direct student of the late Shoji Nishio Shihan. I'm not a member of his organization here in the Philippines and maybe I've made a mistake of saying that he is a direct student and I don't have the authority to say such things. I've only read it in a local newspaper some10 or more years ago about his plan of introducing Nishio-style aikido here in the Philippines, and I think it was mentioned that he is a direct student of Nishio Shihan. If it wasn't mentioned in this article( I was able to cut out the article, but i guess I lost it) about such claim, then I need to apologize also to Jun Batobalani Sensei. Anyways, I read the whole thread from the beginning to the last part and I think this is getting very interesting, in the historical point of view. I hope we could discuss more about Aikido's history in the Philippines which might have begun in the 50's, and hoping that some of our old-timers here in the Philippines can share their experiences in aikido. Anybody here knows something about the old Caltex Aikido Club in the 60's?

reyne caritativo
12-09-2008, 05:33 AM
Hello there, I'm back. Sorry if it took me this llllonggg to reply to this thread. First of all, my apologies to Mr. William Hazen regarding Jun Batobalani Sensei's claim of being a direct student of the late Shoji Nishio Shihan. I'm not a member of his organization here in the Philippines and maybe I've made a mistake of sayi<textarea name="message" id="vB_Editor_001_textarea" rows="10" cols="60" style="width:410px; height:250px" tabindex="1" dir="ltr">Hello there, I'm back. Sorry if it took me this llllonggg to reply to this thread. First of all, my apologies to Mr. William Hazen regarding Jun Batobalani Sensei's claim of being a direct student of the late Shoji Nishio Shihan. I'm not a member of his organization here in the Philippines and maybe I've made a mistake of saying that he is a direct student and I don't have the authority to say such things. I've only read it in a local newspaper some10 or more years ago about his plan of introducing Nishio-style aikido here in the Philippines, and I think it was mentioned that he is a direct student of Nishio Shihan. If it wasn't mentioned in this article( I was able to cut out the article, but i guess I lost it):confused: about such claim, then I need to apologize also to Jun Batobalani Sensei. Anyways, I read the whole thread from the beginning to the last part and I think this is getting very interesting, in the historical point of view. I hope we could discuss more about Aikido's history in the Philippines which might have begun in the 50's, and hoping that some of our old-timers here in the Philippines can share their experiences in aikido. Anybody here knows something about the old Caltex Aikido Club in the 60's?

Enrique Antonio Reyes
12-10-2008, 03:03 AM
Hello to everyone..Im Eric Phil. Aikikai sensei during the 90's hope they still remember me. So whats the hot topic here? im not always online here but it seems previously there was a hot conversation regarding Omar Camar and legitimacy of the Phil Aikikai?

Welcome to the Forum!

I think it's mostly about the History of Aikido in the Philippines. Camar Sensei has in some ways became a sub-topic bringing out a lot of issues for clarification. A lot of the contributors have raised some good points on this matter so please review them and feel free to add any info that may enrich us " )

Have a good day!

One-Aiki,

Iking

Mannix Moya
12-10-2008, 08:05 PM
Hello to everyone..Im Eric Phil. Aikikai sensei during the 90's hope they still remember me. So whats the hot topic here? im not always online here but it seems previously there was a hot conversation regarding Omar Camar and legitimacy of the Phil Aikikai?

Eric,

Musta na! Dundee, Sonny, and I will be seeing each other this weekend at Sei Jun's dojo.

Drixster
12-13-2008, 04:32 PM
helo manix,
im fine. im still practising aikido here in my place in Colchester. And im very glad that i have a good training in Quaipo. by the way di ko matandaan ang name mo pero segurado kilala kita. please help me to refresh it. Please send my regards to my good friends Dundee, Ace, Sonny, Jun, Noel & others. Hope to see you in summer to in the mat.

Eric

Ritchie Martinez
01-06-2009, 05:44 AM
Hi Everybody,

I can't believe that this thread had gone a long way since I last posted.. I would just like to ask everyone involved to please put an end to this discussion in which I think I started.. This is not the sort of thing that we guys are trained for.. I am not with Sensei Camar's group anymore, I' currently inactive with my new group because of work.. But I did not bail out on Sensei Camar because of affiliation or anything, it's more of a personal matter, but my respect with the old man and the group is still here, it won't fade no matter what.. I love the man, I love the type of Aikido I learned from him and I know that all of you also love the Aikido you learned from your Sensei's.. As i've said once before, I hope that one day all Aikidokas in the Philippines practice under one roof, regardless of rank, affiliation, age, gender, etc.. Will any one of you try to organize such event, I would certainly like to try, but honestly, don't know where to begin or how to even actually start.. Anyway, I wish everyone of you a good day and a lot of Aikido sessions..

Rei..

EzD
06-25-2010, 04:00 PM
Kumusta to all. I just have a question that I have in mind that I want to ask. Is sensei Reyes from Olongapo City? If he is then maybe he is related to my fraternity sister Tess at the FEU in the late 70's. One more thing also,,, I met a guy in San Diego by the name of Mar DeLeon in the early 90"s and he told me that he came from the Philippine Aikikai Dojo. Anyone knows Mar DeLeon? The last time I went down to San Diego his dojo was not there anymore.

Well, just dropping by also to say hello to all fellow PINOYS :) .

I studied with him for some time. He has moved on to a new location northeast of san diego. Still teaches Aikido! and yes, he did come by way of the Philippine Aikikai...in fact several of my certificates were actually signed by Mr. Camar.

Teena Inayan
08-20-2010, 11:45 PM
Dear fellow aikidokas,

Manila Aikido Club was born in Guam in mid 1960s together with Roxas Aikido Club and COG Aikido Club. These 3 clubs branched out from the Guam Aikido Club in Asan Point Military Base in Guam, and all 4 clubs were recognized and under the umbrella of Marianas Aiki Kwai as reflected on their membership IDs. Senior Instructors of these clubs included Harry Eto, David Kalama, Richard Sasaki and Francisco Valencia (was the only Filipino Shodan 1965). Somewhere 1966-67, Mr. Galarpe was chosen to introduce the Aikido officially in the Philippines by the Board of Directors of Guam Aikido Club and brought with him Manila Aikido Club and its wooden plaque. Mr. Camar also went and trained at Guam Aikido Club, as adviced by Mr. Galarpe. And thus, Mr. Camar inherited Manila Aikido Club now based in the Philippines. Roxas Aikido Club still went on propagating Aikido in Guam under Mr. Valencia with a 4th Dan in 1974.

In Harmony

Teena Inayan
08-21-2010, 04:50 PM
http://aikiloilo.bravehost.com/images/group8.jpg

Teena Inayan
04-15-2011, 10:55 AM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=9386057&id=796288641