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Samuel Jackson
01-24-2006, 11:18 PM
Hi everyone. My name is sam, and I'm taking aikido lessons starting wensday at a nonprofit school in asheville. I'm 5''11, 170, in good shape, and I have a background in taekwondo and shotokan karate.

I was just looking for some advice for beginners, and I was also wondering how long it will take me to be able to use aikido effectivly on the street, or in sparring with people from different arts. Will I have to work for 20+ years before I can use aikido in a streetfight or sparring?

Simbo
01-24-2006, 11:47 PM
If you're wanting to be able to effortlessly throw a 6'5" 270lbs person, sure, lets just say 20 years. If you're wanting to be able to get back up to your feet quicker after getting pused in a bar (might just be able to roll back up to your feet), then I'd say 20 days (maybe, maybe not, but I just wanted to use 20 again). So what're you looking for? I've been taking aikido for right at a calendar year and I don't think I'd be able to actually throw someone in a real fight, but some things I've learned I'd be able to use, like maybe I'd be able to wrestle someone down into a pin. So yeah, hope that gives you a little more perspective.

crbateman
01-25-2006, 12:10 AM
Samuel, I'd like to give you more definitive answers, but the answers are different for every person. You may already be as prepared as you'll ever be, or perhaps you will never achieve what you wish. I suspect that the answer is somewhere in the middle, but that will, for sure, be determined by your own dedication to training (with a little help from the abilities of your teacher). The important thing is to train, train, train, and let your own Aikido reveal itself to you. It is, after all, the journey that's important. Enjoy yours.

Edwin Neal
01-25-2006, 12:58 AM
Hi Sam... a lot of that depends on your "style"(oh how i hate that term!!!) of aikido, please let me know more!!! as a fellow tarheel I like to try to keep abreast of the state of aikido in my state... generally speaking Steven hit it on the head some skills will be useful sooner, and some probably later... depending on your "style" (grr!!) you may want to cross train in a little judo/jujutsu/wrestling for ground work... you should explore whatever other martial arts you can as you can find at least something in all that will help you become more skillful...

PS dont listen to clark... it is hard to journey on with broken kneecaps!!! just joking clark!

Aristeia
01-25-2006, 02:39 AM
If speedy self defence is waht you're looking for, Aikido's not the best place to go. It will give you self defence benefits eventually, depending on how you train. There are plenty of other good reasons to train Aikido and if you're the type, eventually you won't be able to articulate why you train you'll just know you have to.

But if you want fairly reliable self defence after a year or two, you're better off looking at Judo or BJJ or similar imo.

jducusin
01-25-2006, 12:37 PM
Just my two cents, for what it's worth, from my own experience: I believe this is true only insofar as it depends on the instructor and his or her focus in teaching Aikido. In contrast to a lot of other schools I've seen, I feel fortunate that my own Sensei chooses to spend a great deal of time on making Aikido street-practical (ie. we work a lot on Tae Sabaki/body placement strategy, atemi, defenses against knife attacks, kicks, and non-traditional punching/striking a well as Randori/multiple attackers training almost every day).

On the other hand, I know of a lot of people who've studied say, Judo for example, whose practice focuses more on the competitive sport aspect of the art and so they refuse to deviate from attacking in very specific (and often unrealistic) ways in order to stay within the bounds of competitive rules. Similarly, I've also seen other Aikido dojo that practice just as rigidly and conform to just classical/kata waza without seeking to make a point of directly applying the underlying martial principles of those traditional Aikido movements to more realistic scenarios. So it really depends upon your school and your instructor.

Simbo
01-25-2006, 12:41 PM
But if you want fairly reliable self defence after a year or two, you're better off looking at Judo or BJJ or similar imo.

Or maybe even something not necessarily considered a "martial art" but just a self-defense style. I've heard good things about Krav Maga, gotta love those Israelis. Or something like CDT (www.cdt-training.com), I know my uncle teaches that but from the 2 and a half min spiel he said, it sounds more like some things a bouncer should know how to do. Best of luck finding your path.

Samuel Jackson
01-25-2006, 01:50 PM
Thanks for all the advice everyone!

For clarification, I'm not looking just for self-defense. I'm confidant I can take care of myself. I'm asking because when I was younger,I lived in VA, and there was a shotokan school and an aikido school in my area. They had a friendly rivalry, and when they would get together and spar, the aikido master was pretty much untouchable, but his students, some of whom had been taking lessons for a decade, were getting knocked around by karatekas who had only been training for 2 years. I just wanted to know if that was typical.

Edwin: Sorry to dissapoint, but I'm a wolfpack fan! Anyway, I go to school at Mars Hill College, so we're in the same general area. I'm going to Asheville Aikiai in Woodfin. Have you heard anything about it?

Mark Uttech
01-25-2006, 05:14 PM
Samuel Jackson, if you are confident that you can take care of yourself, you are in a very rare place indeed! In gassho

Michael O'Brien
01-25-2006, 07:09 PM
Samuel,
I'm in a similar boat to you. I have a strong background in TKD, with a smattering of other arts thrown in while I was in the military. I have had about 9 months of Aikido previously and am just starting back again now that my job situation has settled down enough to let me train again.

I love my Aikido training and agree that with the other posts that it will be a while (if ever) that you may find it effective for street self defense. A large part of that will depend on how rooted you are in your TKD. I think for many years to come in a defensive combat situation my primary defense will come from TKD. However, in only a couple of months training in Aikido I found footwork and body positioning techniques I was incorporating with my TKD that is definitely making me a more well rounded martial artist.

Enjoy your training and everything else will take care of itself.

Mike

Edwin Neal
01-26-2006, 02:53 AM
Sam I'm not really a Tarheels fan, we both live in the tarheel state (no matter what wolfpack fans say!)... I don't live in HendersonVILLE, which is near you, but in Henderson which is closer to Raleigh... sorry i don't know about Asheville Aikikai... however from my experience Aikikai style tends toward the softer end of the spectrum and is not as "street" oriented as some other "styles", but it depends a great deal on the teacher... as I have always said hitting and kicking is fairly intuitive, while grappling arts tend to be less intuitive so it is "easier" to become adept at say karate in a shorter time, but again it depends on the "styles" of aikido and karate one is talking about... BTW i went to school at ASU in boone and love that part of the state... good luck training!

xuzen
01-26-2006, 03:34 AM
Thanks for all the advice everyone!

For clarification, I'm not looking just for self-defense. I'm confidant I can take care of myself. I'm asking because when I was younger,I lived in VA, and there was a shotokan school and an aikido school in my area. They had a friendly rivalry, and when they would get together and spar, the aikido master was pretty much untouchable, but his students, some of whom had been taking lessons for a decade, were getting knocked around by karatekas who had only been training for 2 years. I just wanted to know if that was typical?

This just mean aikido, like many internal (soft) style takes years to learn and has a steep learning curve. And like you said, once you achieve the breakthrough... you will be almost untouchable.

However, there are some methods which can accelerate the learning process.

1) Seek out dojo where randori practices are done regularly, or where not available;
2) Supplement with some rough and tumble contact sport (e.g., MT, BJJ, Judo, Wrestling) to get a feel on how to work with resistive forces.

The above points may not be compulsary to achieve untouchablity.... but they sure accelerate your learning towards martial application when supplemented with your regualr aikido.

BC
01-26-2006, 01:57 PM
I'm going to Asheville Aikiai in Woodfin. Have you heard anything about it?

You can't go wrong training under Dan Palmer. He has been practicing aikido a long time. Enjoy!

Counsel
02-07-2006, 10:53 AM
My background is in jujitsu, and I found my instructor taught you based on your ability to learn the techniques and use them well (quickly and 'without thinking' -- too much anyway).

As to the effect on the street, it is, imho, more important on whether you 'freeze' or bend. By that I mean when in a crowded shopping mall, everyone weaves and turns their bodies to avoid oncoming pedestrians. If you do the same when 'stressed' in a fight, you are likely to be able to pick up techniques quickly. Otherwise, concentrate on your reaction.

C

krammer
02-21-2006, 08:50 AM
The more and more I read in thiese forums and see how aikido is put down is not sad but makes me think. Some people act llike they are going to get jumped and aikido won't support them. Well I am 39 new to aikido and feel if ur that worried about defending yourself you need different support then a martial art. I feel go ahead an run around throwing ur kicks and punches i'll be waitng.

Chris Evans
08-21-2012, 10:29 AM
The fastest way to unarmed physical self-defense skill is to practice the "Seiken Jodan Zuki - Face Punch" (in karate or kungfu) or the boxing cross punch over 10,000+ times vs. a 120+# heavy bag or vs. a makiwara or both, under the occasional guidance of a teacher/coach/sensei, with this mental frame work:

• Dai - Kyo - Soku - Kei -
Big - Strong - Fast - Light
o Develop the techniques
o Add power to the techniques
o Increase your speed in the techniques
o Perfect the techniques so that the power is derived from the speed and no longer requires strength.

...and learn to control your anger

"Anger is just like picking up a hot piece of coal and trying to throw it at the person you hate. You are the only one that gets burned."
~some dead guy that was born in Nepal, ~563 B.C., who gave great advise~


Osu

robin_jet_alt
08-21-2012, 06:51 PM
another zombie thread? we've had a few lately...