Poll: Are you ever bored during aikido class?

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[AikiWeb System]

AikiWeb Poll for the week of January 15, 2006:

Are you ever bored during aikido class?

I don't do aikido
Yes
No


Here are the current results (http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=307).

[Edwin Neal]

no unless we do some yoga, and then only in plank pose...

[James Smithe]

Yeah I find myself getting bored if we do the same thing for twenty minutes. I keep thinking when are we going to do something else.

[Mark Uttech]

I am a very firm believer in the fact that "only boring people get bored." so no, I am never bored. There are so many angles to look at, that the first thing one runs out of is time.

[aikigirl10]

Sometimes working on one thing for an entire class can be a little bit tedious, but i wouldnt really say boring.

[Chuck Clark]

If we get bored, then we're not paying attention to what's going on...

[SeiserL]

Nope.

[Pauliina Lievonen]

I have gotten bored during more exiting things that aikido class... sometimes I don't pay attention to what's going on, that's true. And then I get bored. And then I start to pay attention again, because not to do it is so boring. :D :D So in my book, it's a healthy reaction, and just needs to be dealt with in a useful way.

kvaak
Pauliina

[Qatana]

I'd say that sometimes I get restless but not exactly bored. Considering that sometimes we do nothing but shomenuchi ikkyo for a whole week, if I was bored I'd have found another dojo by now.

[Don_Modesto]

"only boring people get bored."I suspect this, too. It was with some unease, then that I opted for "Yes, I get bored." Caveats follow.

Sometimes working on one thing for an entire class can be a little bit tedious, but i wouldnt really say boring.Depends on the thing.

What's "one thing"? A technique? A principle?

If we get bored, then we're not paying attention to what's going on......mmm. Hate to disagree with any post bearing that name, but this sounds too pat to me.

It's for a good teacher to focus students on "what's going on." Students can lose this. More advanced students will have the perspective to keep things interesting but this can be spoiled by an anal teacher, too, as in, "That's not what I taught. You're not doing what I demonstrated."

Maybe, maybe not.

I'm never bored in classes with Saotome or Shibata, for example. But they go after principles. Test: if people are looking around at each other wondering what the teacher wants because he did several techniques in order to get at his "one thing," the teacher is probably addressing principles rather than just where you put your foot at the beginning of 4HO NAGE.

[Matt Molloy]

Definitely not.

Maybe it's just me but in between concentrating on ukemi, concentrating on the technique/principle that we're working on, concentrating on what the Sensei is trying to show you, flying across the mat at a fair old rate, sending someone else flying at a decent rate, getting the hell out of the way so that you don't get clobbered by an incoming strike, getting the hell out of the way when you inadvertantly step into the path of someone who's flying your way, etc. etc.

Where is the time to get bored?

Let's face it. Aikido is non-stop fun. :D

Cheers,

Matt.

[Alec Corper]

Are these questions computer generated?

[ESimmons]

Sometimes I am bored before class, but once class begins, there is no time when I am not either practicing technique or being instructed.

So, no.

[Chuck Clark]

...mmm. Hate to disagree with any post bearing that name, but this sounds too pat to me.

It's for a good teacher to focus students on "what's going on." Students can lose this. More advanced students will have the perspective to keep things interesting but this can be spoiled by an anal teacher, too, as in, "That's not what I taught. You're not doing what I demonstrated."

Greetings, Don. Notice that I didn't say that there aren't understandable "reasons" why someone becomes bored. I still think that it really boils down to this... if we're bored, we're not paying attention to what's available. It isn't guaranteed to be interesting, fun, or even understandable at the moment.

For myself, I can't honestly say I can remember ever being bored in my almost sixty years in this lifetime. There's just too much going on that is interesting to me. If there's a boring instructor doing their thing and I choose to be there, I'm going to pay close attention trying to understand how and why they're boring.

Best regards,

[Mark Freeman]

In answer to the thread question, No, I've never been bored.

More advanced students will have the perspective to keep things interesting but this can be spoiled by an anal teacher,
My mind was boggled by this clipette, by wondering what an 'anal teacher' does, how does he/she get their point across? do they teach anuses? or do they teach the art of anality?.............Just my warped mind keeping away the boredom... :freaky:

[Bridge]

Dazed, confused or generally bewildered? Yes.

Bored? Never!

Then again, I'm easily amused.

[happysod]

yep, ki tests have bored the absolute bits off me at times (no, not the rowing exercise again...). Is it the aikido's fault, probably not, is it my fault, definitely yes -so I've not yet become an aikido saint...

I'm sorry but I have to question the "never bored" answers, either
a) you're a master at redirecting your focus and attention (and have always been able to, even since you were a baby gi in the dojo)
b) you've forgotton
c) we have different definitions of boredom

While I agree being bored is the student's problem (although I'd hope a decent instructor aims to minimise the potential for boredom), have you really never felt even a smidgin ? Honestly impressed if this is so.

[billybob]

I answered bored, boring, booooooring. Sometimes - mostly it seems when the instructor is being so abstract that I can perceive no connection to reality. Doing drills to learn bizarro skills seems a waste of time. Sometimes I like old fashioned ju jitsu for its simplicity and directness.

I think Modesto San is talking about the frustrating habit of some Senseis (I'm kyu rank, don't hurt me please) of insisting technique be done precisely how they are instructing. At times like that I want to say "uke requested a variation", but I usually bite it down and try not to show my teeth.

I find weapons training boring, but I think this is a defense against my fear of being clobbered (more).

FWIW.

Dave

[MaryKaye]

I don't think I've been bored *doing* aikido, but sometimes sitting and listening, yes.

A friend told me many years ago, "When you are bored it doesn't mean you have nothing to do, it means you aren't doing what you want to be doing." When the instructor wants to talk about philosophy and I want to take ukemi, yes, I'm bored.

Also, there really are a few drills where I exhaust my ability to improve after a while, and it's just a trudge. In any given setting, if I don't have "unbendable arm" after twenty tries, I'm not going to have it that day and would like to do something else instead.

Mary Kaye

[Don_Modesto]

...it really boils down to this... if we're bored, we're not paying attention to what's available.

Yes. I agree, as a student.

It isn't guaranteed to be interesting, fun, or even understandable at the moment.

...but I'm wary as a teacher. I strive to keep my classes engaging and relevant. I see other teachers using such reasoning to blame students for poor lessons.

For myself, I can't honestly say I can remember ever being bored in my almost sixty years in this lifetime.

Congratulations. No irony intended. I'm jealous.

Thanks for the response.

[Don_Modesto]

My mind was boggled by this clipette, by wondering what an 'anal teacher' does, how does he/she get their point across? do they teach anuses? or do they teach the art of anality?

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/anal

b : of, relating to, characterized by, or being personality traits (as parsimony, meticulousness, and ill humor) considered typical of fixation at the anal stage of development <anal disposition> <anal neatness>

[Chuck Clark]

Don,

I understand your points from the teacher's viewpoint. I have been a teacher, in many ways, for a long time and I always strive to keep students' attention and engage in a connection that is alive, vital, and tinted with humor as much as possible. I think teachers can get bored as well. Boredom just isn't acceptable to me on either side of the student/teacher relationship. Hell, boredom at any time, to me, is a terrible waste of breaths that we'll never get back. Boredom is what comes after we lose interest in one thing and then can't or refuse to focus our attention on something at hand that isn't boring. I think it is a choice that often becomes habit. Lots of understandable reasons and or things to blame it on, but the responsibility is ours. Every breath we take is one less... I just don't want to waste any if I can help it.

Best regards,

[neaikikai]

Never. If one is getting bored maybe the intensity of the Aikido practised isn't high enough, or Aikido is not the style for you.

[Mark Freeman]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/anal

b : of, relating to, characterized by, or being personality traits (as parsimony, meticulousness, and ill humor) considered typical of fixation at the anal stage of development <anal disposition> <anal neatness>

I did know this Don, and had understood your original post, I blatantly took the quote out of context for the sake of a little warped humour, :blush: ( typical Brit: adept at toilet humour, we learn it by osmosis growing up in such a small place ;) )

[ruthmc]

I only ever get bored during demonstrations when the instructor stops teaching and starts showing off.

Fortunately this doesn't happen too often :)

Ruth

[billybob]

Ruth M. said "I only ever get bored during demonstrations when the instructor stops teaching and starts showing off.

Fortunately this doesn't happen too often"

Admirable candor Madam!

:)

dave

[aikigirl10]

Depends on the thing.

What's "one thing"? A technique? A principle?



Well, certain principles never really become tedious (to me). If we are working on controlling our center or being more circular or a principle like that then its not so redundant because almost every technique can be tied into those principles.

But say for instance we are working on only Kokyu nage (or different variations of it) for an entire class... that can be boring. For one... kokyu nage isnt really that exciting of a technique in the first place .. all u do is turn and throw. And doing an already boring technique for an entire class, can definitely make it worse.

However, its very rare that we do stuff like this... and its also very rare that i find myself bored during aikido. Just every now and then. And who knows maybe its not the techniques maybe its just my mood at the time...

*Paige

[driri]

I can honestly say that I have never been bored in aikido class. There is always a challange and always something to improve. :)

[billybob]

Wikipedia definition:

Boredom, also called ennui (pronounced /ɑ̃nɥi/; a French word from the Old French enui, root of the English word 'annoy'), is a reactive state to wearingly dull, repetitive, or tedious stimuli: suffering from a lack of interesting things to see, hear, etc., or do (physically or intellectually), while not in the mood of "doing nothing". Those afflicted by temporary boredom may regard the affliction as a waste of time, but usually characterise boredom worse than just that. Alternatively one may have the feeling that having too much spare time causes boredom. Indeed, time often appears to move more slowly to someone suffering from boredom. This results from the way in which the human mind measures the passage of time, by the frequency of notable events, the absence of which may cause the feeling of boredom. Boredom can also occur as a symptom of clinical depression and may also lead to impulsive (and sometimes excessive) actions, that serve no purpose and may damage one's self-interest. For example, studies in behavioral finance have shown that stock traders can enter into "overtrading" (buying or selling even without any objective reason to do so) simply because they feel bored when they have nothing worth doing.

So, either watching sixth kyu tests really is boring or I'm clinically depressed. (BOTH)

davek

[Tony Barajas]

I was in the “yes I been bored” category. I was once in a class were an instructor took %75 present of a class period explaining a point which every student understood with in 5 minutes. I know some will say, “perhaps the students did not understand what the instructor was explaining, and that’s why he took that long” My answer to that is: “no, we got it”. The instructor just go into Teacher head space and was not able to pull out.

In short we are responsible for how we approach our own training, but in a fair discussion you cant let the instructor off the hook just because he/she has the title Sensei.

[Janet Rosen]

For one... kokyu nage isnt really that exciting of a technique in the first place .. all u do is turn and throw.
Any technique can be reduced to that simplistic, mechanistic level if that is all you are looking for.
Every time a person attacks me has the potential to pose a different issue of energy, timing, intent, etc AND offer me a range of options of to focus on (energy, timing, intent; hands, feet, hips; depth, size, power, softness).....
yeah, I'm with those who say that going to a seminar and sitting and listening for an hour can be pretty boring :-)

[aikigirl10]

Any technique can be reduced to that simplistic, mechanistic level if that is all you are looking for.



Well, its sometimes good to reduce techniques to a simplistic, mechanistic level even if thats not all you're looking for.

My sensei has said before that techniques like kokyu nage aren't really meant to be a realistic approach to self-defense. They may just be for practicing movement and footwork to improve other techniques that really are effective.

So i like to compare this to writing our A's in kindergarten. We learn to write an A so that later we can learn to write "cat" or "hat" or bigger words like "amphibian" what have you.

And since im not in kindergarten anymore, if someone was to say to me , "Get out your pencil and start writing A's" hmmm ... yeah that would be boring and almost pointless.

So you see to go back and work on things that are essentially very simplistic no matter how u look at it, yes that can be boring to me. Of course, its always good to review , but like i said reviewing for an entire class can be redundant.

But again, we dont do this often so im really not bored very often.

*Paige*

[Janet Rosen]

So i like to compare this to writing our A's in kindergarten. We learn to write an A so that later we can learn to write "cat" or "hat" or bigger words like "amphibian" what have you.
And since im not in kindergarten anymore, if someone was to say to me , "Get out your pencil and start writing A's" hmmm ... yeah that would be boring and almost pointless.
I would hazard a guess that a calligrapher finds value spent in hours working on "A", a weapons instructor on shomen cuts, and a musician on scales or runs; I certainly find value as a seamstress in working on, say, miters....and for a person chosing to devote time and energy to train in aikido, there would always be SOMEthing "work on" in any given technique.

[Jeanne Shepard]

Yes.

Jeanne :p

[aikigirl10]

I would hazard a guess that a calligrapher finds value spent in hours working on "A"

Good Point. :)

....and for a person chosing to devote time and energy to train in aikido, there would always be SOMEthing "work on" in any given technique.

Of course.

I think you and I are on the same page, just with different opinions on how much we enjoy it.

I personally get bored with one certain technique if done over and over. My comparison of kokyu nage to writing A's was only an explanation for why i get bored and what it's like for me when doing something repetitively.

However, like you said it is necessary for Aikido practice, if you are devoted that is, and i totally agree with that.

*Paige*

[grondahl]

I would say that if a technique like kokyunage feels easy then you need to focus on your awareness.

[idarch]

I get bored when the class is an odd number and I sit in seiza to allow the 'extra person' to have a go, trouble is, I seem to be the only person with this mentality and often end up sitting in seiza for quite a while sometimes!

[Mark Uttech]

Ivan, after the sensei demonstrates a technique and tells the class to pair up, quickly turn to the person next to you and say: "Onegaishimasu". Most people who have no partner are waiting to be chosen rather than going right ahead and choosing. The best way is to choose the closest person, and that is the person sitting next to you on one side or two. Good luck.

[billybob]

If you take fifteen years off then come back in your middle age - odd numbered classes are a lifesaver!!! I thought my buddy with the wired together knee was being lazy when he worked intermittently - nope, just surviving.

Sometimes I choose boredom over vomiting and passing out!

dave

[Janet Rosen]

odd numbered classes are a lifesaver!!! I thought my buddy with the wired together knee was being lazy when he worked intermittently - nope, just surviving.
on nights when my body is not up to falling, I make it a point to try to be part of a group of 3 so that my partners can practice with each other at their preferred intensity level.
there is always something to learn by watching anyhow

[crbateman]

I am somewhat ashamed to say that I have on occasion found myself bored in class. I'd like to think it's just human nature, even for the (usually) dedicated.

[grondahl]

If you think you are bored, it is a gift that reminds you of your ego getting in the way of your progress. NO ONE is good enough to be bored.


An appropriate quote, at least in my opinion.

[Lucy Smith]

I love when my Sensei "shows off", it looks great, it makes me feel Aikido is a magnificent art. And it's a great incentive. And I never get bored practicing. No, I don't get bored. In fact, the 1 hour and a half class feels short, and 3 days a week are not enough for me.