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James Smithe
01-13-2006, 05:38 AM
I was reading that Budo book about AIkido and it said that Ueshiba started training in Jujutsu and Kenjutsu at age 19 when he moved to Tokyo. WTF? I thought these famous martial artists were reared from the early age of six to eight to become martial artist.

justin
01-13-2006, 06:16 AM
surpose its a good advert for your never to old to learn

PhilMyKi
01-13-2006, 06:21 AM
Although I would never call 19 old!

James, I think you should learn not to believe everything you see or hear in the media! evileyes

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 06:58 AM
indeed ...

SeiserL
01-13-2006, 08:56 AM
IMHO, its how young or old that you start, its that you continue to train.

bkedelen
01-13-2006, 11:48 AM
Osensei did not even meet Takeda until his 30's I believe.

James Smithe
01-13-2006, 11:52 AM
I thought they grew up on martial arts. The media? I don't remember them saying anything about it. 19 is pretty old to learn how to seriouly hurt people. How did he survive High School. Hahahah.

bkedelen
01-13-2006, 12:03 PM
Not to de-value anyone's experience, but I do not feel like I was able to learn much when I studied MA as a child. I am sure there are children out there who can absorb something about the spirit of budo, but all I learned was some ukemi and a parody of a few techniques. I submit that martial arts training for children is just as important as it is for adults, but I believe that attempting to teach children mastery of the techniques is far less important than teaching children about discipline and commitment. Such skills are much more useful in building a great life than being good at martial techniques. In addition children do not need violence as a problem solving option, and are unprepared to understand the morality and spirituality which forms the underpinnings of Aikido. In my opinion, giving a child a copy of "Hero With A Thousand Faces" will go a lot farther toward making them a great martial artist as an adult than having a child try to parody an adult training.

Marnen
01-13-2006, 12:05 PM
19 is pretty old to learn how to seriouly hurt people.

Who said he was learning to seriously hurt people?

Rod Yabut
01-13-2006, 12:55 PM
I think Osensei was 4th dan when he was born.

Derek Gaudet
01-13-2006, 01:31 PM
I thought they grew up on martial arts. The media? I don't remember them saying anything about it. 19 is pretty old to learn how to seriouly hurt people. How did he survive High School. Hahahah.

How did or do any of us survive Highschool. I think he just did what the majority of us did to complete it... But aside from this, where did the Idea of a certain age to begin training come from? I mean is it a valid source or just an individual's opinion? There are probably a lot here that started after 19, does it mean that they are not every bit as good as the ones here who started at a younger age? Try not to judge people on what you believe is right, or what outside factors are linked with them, such as in the Seagal thread. So now you know O Sensei started "Late" (I'll use that word loosely), does your opinion on Aikido change, if not why bother putting a heavy weight on it? Just train.

Lyle Bogin
01-13-2006, 02:20 PM
Rod - I'm going to borrow that joke.

Don_Modesto
01-13-2006, 03:38 PM
I was reading that Budo book about AIkido and it said that Ueshiba started training in Jujutsu and Kenjutsu at age 19 when he moved to Tokyo. WTF? I thought these famous martial artists were reared from the early age of six to eight to become martial artist.

As the cookie-cutter myth for martial arts masters has it, the prodigies watch horrified as town thugs humiliate their fathers. This is a prominent story in Ueshiba's hagiography. Thereafter he set about strengthening his body, lifting stones, breaking MOCHI mallets, pounding his forehead against trees for the TACHIAI in SUMO. Wonder how it will be before his birth was marked by the presence of the three wise men...

Ketsan
01-13-2006, 07:56 PM
I read somewhere (might have been Bushido Shoshinbu) that Samurai didn't start training until 15 or 16.

CNYMike
01-13-2006, 09:21 PM
I was reading that Budo book about AIkido and it said that Ueshiba started training in Jujutsu and Kenjutsu at age 19 when he moved to Tokyo. WTF? I thought these famous martial artists were reared from the early age of six to eight to become martial artist.

Nope, the 19 year old figure is right. Although he did compete in Sumo tournaments in his teens, I haven't read anything that says where he learned it or what his record was. But as far as classical Japanese MA goes, 19 is about right.

James Kelly
01-13-2006, 09:40 PM
I thought they grew up on martial arts. The media? I don't remember them saying anything about it.but then where did you get the idea that they grew up on martial arts?

Matt Molloy
01-14-2006, 03:40 AM
Wonder how it will be before his birth was marked by the presence of the three wise men...

Not to mention Chuck Norris. :D

Cheers,

Matt.

James Smithe
01-14-2006, 02:44 PM
How did or do any of us survive Highschool. I think he just did what the majority of us did to complete it... But aside from this, where did the Idea of a certain age to begin training come from? I mean is it a valid source or just an individual's opinion? There are probably a lot here that started after 19, does it mean that they are not every bit as good as the ones here who started at a younger age? Try not to judge people on what you believe is right, or what outside factors are linked with them, such as in the Seagal thread. So now you know O Sensei started "Late" (I'll use that word loosely), does your opinion on Aikido change, if not why bother putting a heavy weight on it? Just train.

The High School thing was a joke. I guess you have to go to a pretty violent High School to get it though.
You're right I need to stop judging people on what I believe is wrong like if a man has sex with a 12 year old. He might actually be a nice guy who just enjoys having sex with 12 year olds. Who am I to say he's wrong.
Heavy Weight? I still think Ueshiba is a badass. No matter what style challenged him they all fell before the mighty Ueshiba! Even the legendary founder of Judo Jigoro Kano was in awe of his power.

Derek Gaudet
01-14-2006, 08:24 PM
Yeah I assumed it was a joke, even though high schools tend to get violent, what with all the testosterone. Glad your opinion on Aikido isn't affected by this, and your comment on the twelve year old thing is a bit extreme, I'm referring to simple things like maybe a bit of publicity having an effect on what you consider good technique. If you go over to Aikidofaq.com you can read a translated interview from a Japanese News paper. Ueshiba himself states he began the study of martial arts at the age of 14 or 15, still too old? Well it's getting younger.. The paper was translated by Stanley Pranin and Katsuaki Terasawa. But you know what they say about the media...

James Smithe
01-15-2006, 03:33 AM
I think I'll go look at the article later.

James Smithe
01-15-2006, 10:12 PM
Oh well I guess this could be Ueshiba if he started as a kid.

http://www.taichitom.com/pics/Master%20Bryant%20Workshop%20-%20Kids%20Feb%2021%202004/100MSDCF/Dsc00018%20jojo%20.jpg

Edwin Neal
01-15-2006, 10:38 PM
most people start training as soon as some other kid starts bullying them on the playground... most schools in japan have judo or kendo as a phys ed... so he probably wrestled with other kids in the neighborhood, and did some phys ed in school if any one thinks that counts and keeps people from not ABSOLUTELY BELIEVING... he was born full grown with full mastery and irimi naged the midwife!!!

Brett Charvat
01-16-2006, 12:13 AM
"...breaking MOCHI mallets..."

--As someone who has done his share of smashing rice into mochi at several annual mochitsuki, I always laugh a bit when I hear this story. Breaking those mallets is quite easy, and does not require great strength. It only requires that the smasher have poor aim. The trick to being good at mochitsuki lies in NOT breaking the mallet. Digging splinters out of a batch of mochi is no one's idea of a good time. Sorry for the thread drift.

Mato-san
01-16-2006, 07:51 AM
Started 19yrs, I think if he started at 50, wouldn`t matter. The man was gifted. Hard physically, mental...all aspects. He is a pioneer.

DevinHammer
01-16-2006, 12:10 PM
Keep in mind that in 1883, when he was born:
Mark Twain was writing Huckleberry Finn.
The statue of liberty and coca-cola didn't exist.
Outlaw Jesse James had recently been killed.
Our White House didn't have electricity.
The U.S.Army was still fighting "wild" indians.
And WE considered Japan to be a primitive society.

Schools, especially in the small town where O'Sensei was born, were not as we know them today. Neither were the options available to a young Japanese man.

Adam Alexander
01-24-2006, 05:13 PM
I was reading that Budo book about AIkido and it said that Ueshiba started training in Jujutsu and Kenjutsu at age 19 when he moved to Tokyo. WTF? I thought these famous martial artists were reared from the early age of six to eight to become martial artist.

I think it's the Stanley Pranin interview by Jun on this website in which Pranin says that Ueshiba was never what someone would consider a serious martial artist up until much later.

Apparently, his training was very sporadic and not very frequent even during the periods he did train.

Atleast, this is what I think it said. Read it for yourself, it's worth the fifteen minutes.

L. Camejo
01-24-2006, 08:06 PM
As far as the high school thing goes - wasn't Ueshiba M. a dropout?

Just checking, can someone verify this?

Also, as far as Kano goes, I think it was more a matter of someone seeing another along the same path that he was (i.e. the modernisation of traditional Budo) and recognizing the quality of Ueshiba's technique instead of "awe" (as in looking at someone superior) per se. Judoka such as Kano and Mifune were at a level of technical execution and grace that embodied Aiki at a level equal to that of Ueshiba M. imho.

Gambatte.
LC:ai::ki:

PeterR
01-24-2006, 08:29 PM
I agree Larry. Sometimes a compliment is just a compliment.