PDA

View Full Version : Sensei Steven Seagal's ?


Please visit our sponsor:
 

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


steeven
01-10-2006, 12:40 PM
What is Sensei Steven Seagal's current ranking level?

ten@xrs.net

odudog
01-10-2006, 02:40 PM
Last I heard he is a 7th dan.

ccain85
01-10-2006, 02:45 PM
yup, 7th dan is what i heard too

James Smithe
01-10-2006, 02:55 PM
Steven Seagall married a Japanese woman just to gain rank. He achieved 6th dan by commiting this act. Also Steven Seagall is an embarrasament is Aikido. Number one he beat his wife, not his Japanese one, one of the white woman he married afterwards. Number two he is a bully who uses his Aikido and big size to intimate people. Three he is totally out of shape and always kills people in movies and Aikido is suppose to bring as little harm as possible to the attacker.

bkedelen
01-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Defying the very nature of mathematics, the number of factual inaccuracies in James' post is actually greater than the total amount of information in the post.

chris w
01-10-2006, 03:21 PM
here we go :rolleyes:

DCP
01-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Steven Seagall married a Japanese woman just to gain rank. He achieved 6th dan by commiting this act. Also Steven Seagall is an embarrasament is Aikido. Number one he beat his wife, not his Japanese one, one of the white woman he married afterwards. Number two he is a bully who uses his Aikido and big size to intimate people. Three he is totally out of shape and always kills people in movies and Aikido is suppose to bring as little harm as possible to the attacker.

If you keep your opinions and emotions bottled up, you may acquire ulcers. Stop holding back so much, and tell us how you really feel. ;)

andylucas
01-10-2006, 03:34 PM
james, i guess you won't be buying his new album then. :)

James Kelly
01-10-2006, 09:03 PM
Defying the very nature of mathematics, the number of factual inaccuracies in James' post is actually greater than the total amount of information in the post.OK - that was funny...

aikiwolf
01-10-2006, 10:15 PM
(sigh) why can't we just all get along? :)
Some comments aren't even worth responding to, as for the others...

Steven Seagal was already above Dan level when he became head of the Dojo (owned by his wife's father) he was quickly promoted to 5th Dan in consideration for him running the Dojo, he is now 7th Dan promoted by Seiseki Abe, I believe, one of O'Sensei's Uchi Deshi, through Hombu Dojo--Aikikai.
From his website: http://www.stevenseagal.com/aikido.html
His Aikido skills are on the level as any 7th Dan. And yes... he is getting kinda fat... eh, whatcha gonna do? He can always be a "happy buddha".

Seagal has perhaps the best Irimi Aikido. It shows extreme lack of Aikido knowledge to criticize his technique without any substantive or valid points. I have yet to hear a single time that someone had so much venom towards Mr. Seagal that wasn't either a jealous, immature, or lacking in any substantial Aikido techniques.
Aikido is a martial art and should be taught as such. It's not f***$&! dance class. Uses his size?
I would hope so.... but I would watch his technique... ask him yourself, he's had many a smaller Sensei dump him on his butt. I wouldn't use his 'celebrity' persona of any indication of how he is in person.

I think someone needs to practice their ukemi more... perhaps they've fallen too hard.

xuzen
01-10-2006, 10:47 PM
Steven Seagall married a Japanese woman just to gain rank. He achieved 6th dan by commiting this act. Also Steven Seagall is an embarrasament is Aikido. Number one he beat his wife, not his Japanese one, one of the white woman he married afterwards. Number two he is a bully who uses his Aikido and big size to intimate people. Three he is totally out of shape and always kills people in movies and Aikido is suppose to bring as little harm as possible to the attacker.

Pretty harsh criticism James.

How accurate are your claim, it seems like you actually know this guy on a personal level.

With regards to big size, if you have it, use it. If you don't have it... use Aikido.

Totally out of shape... is that a crime? You make it sound like it is a crime. There are plenty of aging actor who are out of shape...not gonna name names... but you can always spot one. So what? Homo-sapien comes in all shapes and sizes.

Oi! There are just movie, and he never claim to be a moral guardian of any kind. He is just a professional actor who makes a living acting out his role spelled out on a script that was given to him by his agent. Give him a break.

James Smithe
01-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Devil advocates have no effect on me.

James Smithe
01-10-2006, 11:00 PM
Nevermind I take that back I am jealous of his awesome wife beating skills and his wicked rat tail thats on the back of his head. His skills are up there with Chuck Norris. Let me see how many people nutride these two jokes.

jester
01-10-2006, 11:23 PM
Why don't you go to one of his seminars and really tell him how you feel?

Seriously!

Movies aren't real you know?

James Smithe
01-10-2006, 11:42 PM
Jester who are you talking to? All the things I mentioned accept for one have to do with him actually being in movies.
always kills people in movies and Aikido is suppose to bring as little harm as possible to the attacker.
This topic must have been done to death I'm surprised it has got so many responses.

Edwin Neal
01-10-2006, 11:43 PM
oh i have to get in on this... while i like his movies... i think is true to characterize his journey in aikido as somewhat suspect... the claim that he married his first wife for her connection to an aikido school are generally held to be true... that is not to say that his rank is unmerited just that he did what he could to better his station... the fact that he beat his wife speaks to my main problem, that is that he seems somewhat arrogant and egotistical... kind of full of himself and his knowledge of aikido and other esoteric practices. In some ways he falls into the category of those teachers that tend to overly mystify or hype their knowledge or skill as somehow better than others, but that may be just marketing and selling himself to hollywood, or trying to hype his dojo's business. I also remember that at some point in the early 90's he claimed to have studied with Osensei which is definately false. Still I think his waza is okay, although he is far from a master... there are relatively few of those around today...
just my humble and most ignorant opinion... apologies if this offends, as that is not my intention. :ai:

James Smithe
01-10-2006, 11:46 PM
Don't worry about offending the nutriders. However I think they are being devil advocates.

George S. Ledyard
01-11-2006, 04:39 AM
the claim that he married his first wife for her connection to an aikido school are generally held to be true...

This is NOT "generally" held to be true. He did Aikido and she did Aikido, they got married.... that would put them in a fairly large group. They got divorced... that also puts him in a large group of folks. He benefitted in terms of promotion because he ran a dojo in japan but to say that he married his wife so that he could get the benefit is a huge and not very believable jump. I know people who trained in Osaka with him and Fujitani Sensei and I never heard that.

the fact that he beat his wife speaks to my main problem

I don't believe that this constitutes a Fact; there have always been rumors about Kelly LeBrock but to my knowledge these remain rumors as he has never been convicted or even arrested for the crime of domestic violence (I don't believe). If anyone knows FOR a FACT that this happened then we can discuss it further but I make it a policy not to repeat rumors on the boards unless I know someone I trust who has direct experience with a given issue.

that is that he seems somewhat arrogant and egotistical... kind of full of himself and his knowledge of aikido and other esoteric practices. In some ways he falls into the category of those teachers that tend to overly mystify or hype their knowledge or skill as somehow better than others, but that may be just marketing and selling himself to hollywood, or trying to hype his dojo's business.

a) being "somewhat egotistical and arrogant... kind of full of himself" puts him right along side a good many of the uchi deshi; I think you're just dumping on Segal because he's the white boy.
b) the guy is a movie star; hype is how things work in Hollywood... As for the idea that he was "hyping" the "dojo's business"... P-l-e-a-s-e, even Steven Segal's dojo would never have been a comercial venture. He'd make more during a coffee break on the movie set than he would in a year doing a dojo. I've seen how his boys trained.. They trained VERY hard; if he wanted to make money from the dojo he wasn't making the prctice easy enough to generate serious numbers. He turned out some excellent students, Matsuoka Sensei, Reynosa Sensei etc.

I also remember that at some point in the early 90's he claimed to have studied with Osensei which is definately false. It is true that he never studied with the Founder. O-sensei was dead when he made his first visit to Honbu Dojo

Still I think his waza is okay, although he is far from a master...

What, pray tell, would constitute a "master"? Would you recognize one if you saw him? Segal Sensei is as good as any of the American 7th Dans I have seen... Once again, this sounds like it's a comparison to some idealized idea of the Japanese "Master" which, of course, none of the gaijin instructors could ever live up to.

It's not that I am some big fan of Steven Segal... it's just that I like the tone of the boards to be better than this. Slinging about a bunch of half truths and 15th hand rumors isn't very useful or particularly interesting.

I know people who trained with him in Japan and I know folks who trained with him in the US. Generally, the people who know the truth aren't posting... So there's no point. I limit myself to what I've seen of his Aikido which is excellent and what I've seen of his students which is also excellent.

Michael Hackett
01-11-2006, 10:10 AM
Bravo! Ledyard Sensei once more brings the light of reason and good manners to bear.

Ron Tisdale
01-11-2006, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the common sense Ledyard Sensei.

As for the rest...what does it matter to YOUR keiko what Seagal does, did, or will do???

I'm taking a page from Lynn Seiser's book...GET BACK TO TRAINING.

Best,
Ron

Mark Uttech
01-11-2006, 10:36 AM
Bravo! Ledyard Sensei once more brings the light of reason and good manners to bear.

I second the motion there

odudog
01-12-2006, 12:59 PM
I can say for a fact that he didn't marry his first wife so that he could improve his Aikido standing. I saw an interview that he did a long time ago on Larry King. For those of you who are not from the US, Larry King does live interviews nightly on CNN. Seagal Sensei said that he married his first wife due to the fact that she got pregnant. He said that you don't get a daughter of *insert her dad's name* Sensei's stature pregnant and just walk away. Larry King then asked him what type of knife fighting he was doing in his latest block buster movie, which he replied it is a combination of blah, blah, blah, blah styles mixed together. You could tell that Larry King has no idea what Seagal Sensei was talking about on the topics just typed above. Seagal Sensei rattled off the knife styles names so quickly and fluently that I could not catch the names. What ever else was discussed during the hour long interview, I don't remember, but I am sure about the two facts I typed above for I was hoping that he would talk about them.

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 01:44 PM
my points were that the first wife WAS the daughter of the sensei so it could be ( probably was ) that his marrying into the family helped in that way...

as for kelly lebrock i thought i saw a police report on one celebrity show so there you go... i wouldnt beat her...

as far as mcdojo and image and hype i meant for his hollywood career not his dojo ie dojo was more to hype his hollywood resume as was i think his tibetan buddhism and kundalini yoga and chinese herbal medicine and other things he claims to have studied or mastered

I recognize a master because my sensei is one he has the menkyo kaiden from osensei to prove it and the waza to back it up... not meant to be mean just calling it like i see it.

Ron Tisdale
01-12-2006, 02:25 PM
he has the menkyo kaiden from osensei to prove it

Interesting. Which instructor would that be? I haven't even heard of the pre-war Daito ryu densho given to Shioda and others being referred to as Menkyo Kaiden....Ueshiba himself did not get one from Takeda as they weren't available in Daito ryu at that time. Could you be more specific?

Best,
Ron

Dennis Hooker
01-12-2006, 02:59 PM
I think we would all be interested from a historical perspective regarding this "Menkyo Kaiden" as I have never heard of Ueshiba Sensei doing such a thing. Could you give us more information please?

tenshinaikidoka
01-12-2006, 03:11 PM
I would be real interested to know how someone in Aikido got a Menkyo Kaiden from O'Sensei as well. O'Sensei received a certificate from Takeda Sensei titled Kaishaku Soden no Koto. Which is, according to Kondo Sensei, a complete transmission at the time. This information can be found on Aikido Journal with Stanly Prannen interviewing Kondo Sensei. I would assume that O'Sensei did not issue Menkyo Kaidens relating to Daito Ryu because S. Takeda was the one who would issue full transmission scrolls (I think, please correct me if I am wrong) and I beleive as Mr. Tisdale stated, they were not refered to as that at that time.

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 03:14 PM
i shouldnt have mentioned it now it sounds like i'm bragging... my sensei wouldnt have mentioned it but if you must know check my profile... i think he was the only gaijin to recieve one... he studied with Tohei in Hawaii if that helps...

Raspado
01-12-2006, 03:20 PM
I studied under Larry Reynosa (a senior student of Seagal's yondan at the time-godan now) for five years. There is nothing wrong with his aikido. All those things you spoke about James are just uneducated opinions. Yes, Seagal doesn't train nearly like he did in the early eighties. I have personally met him, trained in a class of his and taken ukemi from him. He's got a nasty kotegaeshi. He is everybit as good as any of the other American Shihan I have seen and I have seen a few.

Ron Tisdale
01-12-2006, 03:35 PM
Edwin, it doesn't sound like you are bragging, it sounds like incorrect information. Pending further clarification, it kind of means we have to assume you or your 'Sensei' are lying, or someone in the chain mis-understood something.

Your profile doesn't mention who you actually train with, just who you admire. Parker Shihan, as part of the Yoshinkan, wouldn't have a Menkyo Kaiden from Ueshiba Sensei (O-Sensei), or Tohei Sensei either. It would probably be questionable if either gave such a document. If you're not trying to hide something, just state the name of your teacher...that would probably clear up the mis-understanding.

Best,
Ron

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 03:42 PM
i am a traditionalist... lineage is important, as is skill... Seagal has good aikido, but hes not the best out there... his school plays hard thats good... much better than aikidance schools that dont touch each other and/or say there is no striking in aikido or something like that... funny you should mention kotegaeshi as that is what I call a benchmark technique... check a senseis kotegaeshi and you can get a sense of how developed his waza is by noting the small detail (devils in the details!!!) and sometimes you can tell who his sensei was by watching how he does certain waza...

you studied with Reynosa who studied with Seagal who studied with.... yadayada... how far back do you have to go to get to Osensei??? That makes a difference in some cases ( im not saying in your case :-))

shihan are a dime a dozen rank tends to be inflated in some schools organizations...

just my view of the state of the aikido landscape ... i still have much more to see...

Raspado
01-12-2006, 03:46 PM
I would agree with you Edwin. Seagal studied under Tohei but then under Abe Sensei in Japan. Abe Sensei was an uchi deshi under O'Sensei. I liked a lot of Seagal's style--especially the randori. He doesn't do techniques like shiho nage as he is absolutely huge-which is one of the reasons his irimi is so good. He's very fast too.

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 03:51 PM
I was present when Parker shihan got his 7th dan in the late 80's... i was in the navy in japan and he was my first but not my primary sensei... i still hesitate to mention (ie speak for) my sensei as i am currently inactive in his school... i moved out of state so i dont train regularly anymore... his rank and credentials are recognized by Hombu no mistake about that and his credentials are recognized by Ki society no mistake there either...

Ron Tisdale
01-12-2006, 03:51 PM
Hmmm....You wouldn't be referring to an Honorary 10th dan given to James Mitose by Tohei in Hawai, supposedly from Ueshiba...now would you?

A) not a menkyo kaiden

B) Mitose was a thug

Best,
Ron

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 03:54 PM
read my profile i listed my sensei s on it ... not mitose although my sensei knew him...

Ron Tisdale
01-12-2006, 03:55 PM
I don't believe Hombu dojo (Aikikai or Yoshinkan) use the rank 'Menkyo Kaiden'...I can't be sure of the Ki Society but I place a pretty large bet that they don't use that title either. Are you sure you have it right? If what you say is true, your instructor shouldn't mind. On the other hand...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
01-12-2006, 03:58 PM
From Stan Pranin's Encyclopedia of Aikdo:
SUENAKA, ROY Y.
U. S. Air Force retired. Aikido and karate instructor. First taught aikido by Koichi TOHEI in Hawaii in 1953. Early foreign practitioner at the AIKIKAI HOMBU DOJO. Established the first aikido dojo in Okinawa in 1961. Relocated to Charleston, South Carolina in 1972 and remained there after retirement from the military in 1978. Founder and president of the American International Ki Development and Philosophical Society. Mr. Roy Suenaka, 4341 Bream Rd. , Charleston Heights, SC 29405 USA.

No mention of rank...certainly no mention of Menkyo Kaiden. Sure you want to stick with that??

Ron

Raspado
01-12-2006, 04:08 PM
Ouch!

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 04:12 PM
yes i'll stick with more up to date info than the encyclopedia, but you got it... no mention of rank eh ...
well stan dont know everything....

tenshinaikidoka
01-12-2006, 05:22 PM
Stan doesn't know everything?? Well, that might be true, but he is a definate source for correct information. But, the point is this, I have never heard of anyone in Aikido, being given a Menkyo Kaiden certificate, even when O'Sensei was teaching Daito Ryu, I do not beleive he handed out that type of certificate to anyone. Now my info might be off (On the Daito Ryu stuff) but I would like to see that certificate given to any Aikido practisioner (Shihan or otherwise). Please understand, it is not that we don't beleive that you beleive it is true, I think there might be some misunderstanding regarding this certification. Perhaps on your part, maybe in our understanding of what you are saying!

Budd
01-12-2006, 05:28 PM
In Roy Suenaka's book, Complete Aikido: Aikido Kyohan : The Definitive Guide to the Way of Harmony (Tuttle Martial Arts), he doesn't mention receiving a Menkkyo Kaiden from either Ueshiba or Tohei.

Though, given who he's trained with in aikido, judo and karate-do (in Hawaii, Japan and Okinawa), he certainly sounds like someone that's been around the block a time or two.

From what I remember, I particularly enjoyed the chapter(s) on how Suenaka Sensei dealt with dojo stormers and street altercations -- not to mention how the book reconciles such things with "aiki" and the understanding of harmony.

The photos in the book are quite excellent as well.

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 05:39 PM
budd p. 43 read it again

Chris Li
01-12-2006, 05:50 PM
budd p. 43 read it again

So far as I know, Suenaka received a menkyo kaiden from M. Ueshiba in the 1960's. It seems to be genuine, but what it actually means is anybody's guess.

One note, all Larry King quotes aside, Seagal's wife's father was an alcoholic who died when she was in first grade and never did Aikido. His wife ran a small dojo before she met Seagal, and they opened a larger one for Seagal after they got married.

Best,

Chris

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 06:07 PM
sensei says its just a piece of paper and laughs, but I'm sure Osensei knew what it meant when he gave it too him... I understand it to mean he is liscensed to teach aikido and confers some level of mastery which is recognized by the Ministry of education in Japan. On Seagal and his things in Japan I'm not sure just looking for clarification... his aikido is good... but rank is hard to measure when mcdojos with 11th dan grandmasters of hellfire aikido pop up all over the place...

Chris Li
01-12-2006, 06:47 PM
sensei says its just a piece of paper and laughs, but I'm sure Osensei knew what it meant when he gave it too him... I understand it to mean he is liscensed to teach aikido and confers some level of mastery which is recognized by the Ministry of education in Japan.

That's an interesting thought - I wonder if it was given to him in order to make it easier to teach in Okinawa? I know that Morihei Ueshiba made up various certificates for other people for simlar reasons.

Best,

Chris

Edwin Neal
01-12-2006, 06:59 PM
i think that was part of it at least, but "I" understood it to mean he had achieved a somewhat high level of mastery and could establish his own "ha" (school or style) of aikido... as in Suenaka "ha" Tetsugaku ho Aikido... however he didnt do that until way after osenseis passing and the split between tohei and the former doshu Kisshomaru... but well maybe its just easier to say its a piece of paper, although it looks impressive enough ...

PeterR
01-12-2006, 08:34 PM
Interesting. Which instructor would that be? I haven't even heard of the pre-war Daito ryu densho given to Shioda and others being referred to as Menkyo Kaiden.

I have at least with respect to Tomiki. I had assumed that the densho given to Shioda and others was the same but really not that sure what was given when.

If not Menkyo Kaiden what were they called?

tenshinaikidoka
01-13-2006, 12:59 AM
Mr Neal,

Just a question, in reading over other threads, there seems to be a point where you will bring up Seagal and basically down play him, is there some reason for this? I only ask because it is only negative stuff from what I have seen. Seagal Shihan is a 7th Dan, and by far one of the better 7th Dans I have seen (in his more active Aikido days). Although I was personally more impressed with Isoyama Shihan, I still say and beleive that Seagal is and should be the rank at which he is. This is my own opinion, and others will vary. But I like to think that all higher dan ranks have something to give to Aikido. I would hope that we could learn to get along as a collective group more instead of all the negative talk I so often see. But again, this is my opinion!!

With resepct,

Brandon

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 01:13 AM
with respect to all I am somewhat bothered by ranking and although I give respect to all fellow students especially those that have studied longer than I... IMHO some rankings seem to be a little inflated... I have been kind of bouncing around here to get a feel for this forum... I like you believe all higher ranks and lower ranks equally have much to offer to Aikido, but as far as seagal goes I have no problem with him personally... with regards to all aikidoka I say doesn't our art by its very nature require a high degree of "sincerety and self-honesty". How can we or any one else respect and be worthy of OSensei's legacy if we are not... ?

James Smithe
01-13-2006, 04:53 AM
Okay I will say this twice. This topic has been done to death. Don't you think it's strange that someone new to Aikiweb should be the one to say this. You might as well bring up his herbal supplement drink again.
About the Menkyo Kaiden. I heard that Kenji Tomiki was the first to receive a Menkyo Kaiden from Ueshiba. After Ueshiba adopted the Dan ranking system his Menkyo Kaiden was converted to an 8th dan. I'm really not sure if this is correct though.

Aikilove
01-13-2006, 05:01 AM
Hey, Edwin.
Tohei was his teacher (and graded him to at least 1 dan). Isoyama was his teacher. Abe was his teacher. All three are considered to be the foremost of the founders direct students. How is that for lineage for you.
Who are you to say Seagal is not 100% sincere and honest about his aikido and everything else today? Have you met him or his students lately? Do you base your knowledge about this man from rumors, hypes and myths? Then how does that goes with the "nature of our art as you say?
Someone who has trained aikido since at least the end of 60's-beginning of 70's, who has operated a successful dojo in japan, who has been recognized as friend and good aikidoka by Isoyama and Abe, who recieved hachidan and was honoured to demonstrate at all Japan Aikido 1995 by Second doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba, at least I think deserves the respect to not be called someone who runs a McDojo.

Or maybe that is just me.

/J

James Smithe
01-13-2006, 05:43 AM
Hey, Edwin.
Tohei was his teacher (and graded him to at least 1 dan). Isoyama was his teacher. Abe was his teacher. All three are considered to be the foremost of the founders direct students. How is that for lineage for you.
Who are you to say Seagal is not 100% sincere and honest about his aikido and everything else today? Have you met him or his students lately? Do you base your knowledge about this man from rumors, hypes and myths? Then how does that goes with the "nature of our art as you say?
Someone who has trained aikido since at least the end of 60's-beginning of 70's, who has operated a successful dojo in japan, who has been recognized as friend and good aikidoka by Isoyama and Abe, who recieved hachidan and was honoured to demonstrate at all Japan Aikido 1995 by Second doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba, at least I think deserves the respect to not be called someone who runs a McDojo.

Or maybe that is just me.

/J

You just ignored everything I said. You guys are hopeless.

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 06:13 AM
Hey flame off there aikilove... I Said or made no direct allegation against Seagal sensei... I was making generalizations about the state of aikido...however since you bring it up, I can say I have never met him nor any of his students to my knowledge, but I have trained with people who have and whom I trust. I can however read his web page and what ever else you can find by a simple websearch:

I have seen his movies and some clips of him doing aikido... not too shabby... not a master...

Steven Seagal is not only a martial arts master, he is the only Caucasian in history to own and run an aikido dojo in Japan.

This is not true.

Steven Seagal began training karate at the age of 7 under Fumio Demura, and later began practising aikido in the late 1960s at the Orange County Aikikai in California under Harry Ishisaka.
Seagal Sensei received his 1st Dan from Koichi Tohei in Orange County in the summer of 1974 and traveled to Japan shortly thereafter at the tender age of 19. Seagal separated from Tohei's organization and assumed direction of the Aikikai-Hombu affiliated Tenshin Aikido Dojo in Osaka which was owned by his Japanese wife's parents.
He was rapidly promoted to 5th Dan in consideration of his position as chief instructor of the dojo, and his natural aptness in the art, and was eventually awarded his 6th Dan.

shodan to godan how do i do that??

Steven Seagal currently holds a 7th Dan granted by the Aikikai and trains out of his home with his senior students, who in turn operate the dojos in Los Angeles and Taos. Seagal Sensei also has a school in Ventura, California under Larry Reynosa Sensei. Reynosa Sensei has trained with Steven Seagal for 11 years, holds the rank of Yondan (4th degree black belt) and is a direct disciple of Steven Seagal Shihan

yondan in 11 years???

He has sworn his allegiance, loyalty, and love to him and his style of Aikido. Ten years ago, Seagal Sensei honored Reynosa Sensei with the name "Makato" which means "sincere heart" in Japanese. Therefore, the school is also called Makoto Dojo.

whats all this swearing going on here?? and for the record there is only one style of aikido... that came from Osensei...

Seagal Sensei is a priest of the Omoto-Kyo sect, as was O'Sensei. Seagal Sensei's name in Aikido circles is Take Shigemichi, meaning pathway to Prosperity.

and he is an Omoto priest? I didn't even know Osensei was an Omoto priest!!!

http://www.stevenseagal.com/spirit.html
try this on and see what you think... theres plenty more...

and imagine he did all this while grooming himself for a career as a movie star... and more but we cant talk about that....

Seagal was just being mentioned here when i started to spin off topic about testing standards and ranking systems and such... see my other posts... i meant to imply that we (all aikidoka) must be sincere and honest about certain aspects of our art... some dojos may possibly be a little off the golden path... Know what I mean???

i'm not kicking anybody down, just kicking some ideas around...

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 06:21 AM
sorry james I got you... menkyo kaiden is a certificate not a rank... its kind of a certification of mastery ... maybe like a super shihan or something as i understand it...

and Seagal aint got one ;-)

seagal just got blended into my off topic thready thingy there...

happysod
01-13-2006, 06:30 AM
Dear aikiweb adherents,

I have pondered this for a long time and must ask your help on introducing honesty and standards in our pie-making, which have IMHO been slipping since I was first born (LOL). In the days of true pie-making, pastry was a rough-tough no-nonsense way of sealing all that goodness in using only the most basic of ingredients, it was never intended for eating!!

Since then, modern bakers have allowed their own thoughts to intrude upon the art rather than keeping to the original, diluting its use in pies to the extent that people now eat the crust!! The more fluffy pie-makers have even introduced ways of adding extra air to the mix to produce such abortions as puff-pastry! Don’t even get me started on sweetened pastry and fruit pies! There is only one pastry – flour, water – that’s it!

I blame TV chefs for the most damaging aspects of how a good product was dumbed down to make it more appealing to the masses. Why, I even hear that some pastry doesn’t even contain wheat anymore!!!(probably Hollywood’s fault or those damn west-coasters) Folks, we’ve got to stop this while pies still have some reputation, even quiche creators are starting to snigger at pies these days...

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 06:38 AM
BRILLIANT!!!

however backward pies and pastries used to be divine, today some varieties provide little sustenance...

ah the good old pie days.... sigh

PhilMyKi
01-13-2006, 06:47 AM
I once met a guy who claimed to be a master - he was not ... he just ate all the pies! :D

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 06:49 AM
I once met a master pie maker ... so i killed him...

PhilMyKi
01-13-2006, 06:54 AM
Just for humour sake, how would one go about killing a master pie maker?

Taliesin
01-13-2006, 07:21 AM
Can somebody please explaine to me why everybody is interested in Steven Seagal's Aikido - unless they intent to train with him or one of his students? In which case they will be in a position to judge for themselves.

If you don't then what's the point - it isn't going to improve your Aikido

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 07:21 AM
you choke him with sensei seagal's energy bars... they suck out his ki... :confused: :ai:

6th Kyu For Life
01-13-2006, 07:23 AM
Just for humour sake, how would one go about killing a master pie maker?

Pie to the face.

A DEADLY PIE!!

batemanb
01-13-2006, 07:31 AM
I once met a guy who claimed to be a master - he was not ... he just ate all the pies! :D

No I didn't :D

Ron Tisdale
01-13-2006, 07:50 AM
Edwin, it seems that Suenaka did indeed receive something. I apologize for not believing you, in spite of the fact that it does seem rather strange. As to the meaning of it, or the context in which it was given, I don't know. It does seem rather strange though that your teacher laughs about it, but you through it out on the boards in the manner you did.

If not Menkyo Kaiden what were they called?

Hiden Mokoroku, I believe. Check Pre-war Aikido Masters, by Stan Pranin.

Best,
Ron

PhilMyKi
01-13-2006, 07:54 AM
Sorry Bryan I did not mean you :D ... please don't beat me :sorry:

It was a person I met during my wilderness years at Uni. :)

Budd
01-13-2006, 08:02 AM
Thanks, Edwin, I will go check again. I'm not disputing that Suenaka Sensei received certification -- just didn't remember it being necessarily Menkkyo Kaiden. I'll double-check, though.

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 08:06 AM
thats how they did it back in the day ... didn't throw it out its no secret... its all in his book,,,

Chris Li
01-13-2006, 11:21 AM
i think that was part of it at least, but "I" understood it to mean he had achieved a somewhat high level of mastery and could establish his own "ha" (school or style) of aikido... as in Suenaka "ha" Tetsugaku ho Aikido... however he didnt do that until way after osenseis passing and the split between tohei and the former doshu Kisshomaru... but well maybe its just easier to say its a piece of paper, although it looks impressive enough ...

That's a possibility, although then the questions would be why he received the certificate after such a short time in practice (after only 8 years - little of that time with Morihei Ueshiba himself) and why many other people who were senior to him (and had much more time and contact with Ueshiba) didn't.

Best,

Chris

tenshinaikidoka
01-13-2006, 12:32 PM
Mr Neal,

The reason Reynosa sensei had a yondan after 11 years, is because he was already ranked in Aikido when he first started training with Seagal, and he was, I beleive a Sandan at that point, so a Yondan in 11 years is very beleiveable. And I too apologize for not beleiving you regarding the certificate. Now, lets go train!!!!

Domo Arigato,

Raspado
01-13-2006, 01:19 PM
Edwin, Larry Reynosa was not promoted to a yondan in 11 years. When he met Seagal he was already a Sandan in USAF I believe. Larry Reynosa is no longer associated with Seagal and has his direct ties to Hombu dojo. He is currently a godan.

Raspado
01-13-2006, 01:21 PM
:D Sorry- didn't see the last reply before mine. TTT for Larry Reynosa.

aikidoc
01-13-2006, 05:43 PM
Yondan in 11 years: here is the Aikikai requirement from their website. Minimum 2 years since Ni dan, with 300 days of practice. That would likely be double for the states or 4 years and 300 hours. Apparently, Seagal is very slow to give rank.

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 06:51 PM
I still feel that seems a little fast, but I have always been a little more conservative in this area...

WHAT???
Larry Reynosa is no longer associated with Seagal and has his direct ties to Hombu dojo. He is currently a godan....
how is this...
He has sworn his allegiance, loyalty, and love to him and his style of Aikido. Ten years ago, Seagal Sensei honored Reynosa Sensei with the name "Makato" which means "sincere heart" in Japanese.

sorry I just thought that was ironic... ironic how i keep using the word ironic too.

Now once again I am not attacking either of them (seagal or reynosa) personally...I don't know them I have not had the pleasure of taking ukemi for either of them... they just happen in some ways to indicate some points that I was trying to discuss about aikido in a very general way... take the rank thing...
Seagal Sensei received his 1st Dan from Koichi Tohei in Orange County in the summer of 1974 and traveled to Japan shortly thereafter at the tender age of 19. Seagal separated from Tohei's organization and assumed direction of the Aikikai-Hombu affiliated Tenshin Aikido Dojo in Osaka which was owned by his Japanese wife's parents.
He was rapidly promoted to 5th Dan in consideration of his position as chief instructor of the dojo, and his natural aptness in the art, and was eventually awarded his 6th Dan.
I'm not saying it was undeserved or he sucks or anything... i use it as a possible illustration of what I consider to be an issue that I wish to discuss in a lively but respectful manner... testing criterion and the question of what qualifies as aikido... I've been bouncing these ideas through a couple of threads that i'm following... I don't for instance Know how long reynosa sensei has studied but if I could make Yondan after 11 years... well let me just say that math is a little funny to me... i'm not saying anything about reynosa sensei I am saying what is the deal with testing and ranking and the transmission of aikido...
respectfully

Aristeia
01-13-2006, 06:55 PM
dude, read the replies above you. Looks like Reynosa took 11 years between sandan and yondan. Nothing wrong with that.

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 07:04 PM
Michael it says he studied with seagal for 11 years not 11 years between ranks and this is not what i want to discuss... I would be honored to meet either of them... this is my last post to this thread... i will continue with my thoughts in the testing forum...

Edwin Neal
01-13-2006, 07:08 PM
sorry chris li ... i think he was awarded it so he would have authority to open a dojo in okinawa, but I believe he also recognized sensei's ability since he had been training very directly with osensei and tohei sensei for quite a while...
this is my last post here for sure...

Chris Li
01-13-2006, 08:05 PM
sorry chris li ... i think he was awarded it so he would have authority to open a dojo in okinawa, but I believe he also recognized sensei's ability since he had been training very directly with osensei and tohei sensei for quite a while...
this is my last post here for sure...

Well, he didn't get to Japan until 1961 (after 5 or so years of training in Hawaii until he enlisted in 1958, during which Tohei was there only occasionally), then he opened his dojo in Okinawa in 1962 at the age of 21, so at the time that the certificate was issued he'd had at most 9 years of training, with no more than 1 year or so of that under Morihei Ueshiba (who wasn't even in Tokyo full time, and wasn't all that active when he was). I'm sure that he was good, but 21 is pretty young, and 9 years isn't very much - especially compared to a lot of the other students who came out of that era without menkyo kaiden.

Best,

Chris

tenshinaikidoka
01-14-2006, 07:38 PM
Mr Neal,

Reynosa was a Sandan when he FIRST met Seagal. After 11 years of training WITH SEAGAL, he was promoted to Sandan. Why? Well, you cannot unrank someone and then rerank them within the Aikikai. So he was not promoted from beginer to Yondan in 11 years, Reynosa had already studied prior to Seagal arriving in L.A. Also, 2001 Reynosa broke ties with Seagal, probably due to Seagal making more movies than training or having anything to do with his students in Aikido. Reynosa was with Seagal for some 17 years (I beleive) and is now a Godan. Reynosa has been in Aikido over 30 years, so his rank is certainly beleivable, and maybe he is even underranked given his abilities. But, this is of course, my opinion.

tenshinaikidoka
01-14-2006, 10:39 PM
Ok, the above shoud say "promoted to Yondan" not promoted to Sandan!! LOL

James Smithe
01-15-2006, 12:21 AM
For all you Segall buttkissers don't forget to buy his super juice.

http://store1.yimg.com/I/xoxide_1877_28709319

Aikilove
01-15-2006, 05:59 AM
Hey Jam Smythe, Nice name you have.

/J

Mike Fugate
01-15-2006, 04:40 PM
.. kind of full of himself and his knowledge of aikido and other esoteric practices. In some ways he falls into the category of those teachers that tend to overly mystify or hype their knowledge or skill as somehow better than others,

I dont think Seagal is full of himself at all. If your good, your good. No way around it, and by insulting someone for being full of himself because of media BS is crazy. Unless you plan on training with him or his students I dont get this topic at all. Go to his simenars, he isnt impossible to locate, go to him and ask if these allegations are true or not.
Here is a paste from an interview when asked about his "master" stutus.....Full of himself? You be the judge....
Stanley Weiser: First off, can you tell our readers a little bit about your background in the art of aikido—how long you trained, who your teachers were, when you attained the status of a master?
Steven Seagal: Well, the title of master—on paper—is something that I probably received in the early eighties. I still don't believe that I have attained the level of being a master. Maybe some other people think I am a master, but in my mind I am certainly not. :ki:

Edwin Neal
01-16-2006, 12:40 AM
post # 52 i shall post no more let this thread die...

neaikikai
01-16-2006, 02:06 AM
Steven Seagal came to our dojo in the mid 80's to meet Kanai Shihan and pay his respects and have a private lesson. After some time his wording offended Sensei and he was asked to leave the dojo. He would call over the years but Sensei's mind was made up and never really warmed up to him, for what it is worth. You would have had to know Kanai sensei, he was very humble, very low key and maybe that was the difference.

Misogi-no-Gyo
01-16-2006, 06:39 PM
Steven Seagal came to our dojo in the mid 80's to meet Kanai Shihan and pay his respects and have a private lesson. After some time his wording offended Sensei and he was asked to leave the dojo.
Mr. DiFronzo,
Interesting story. While you provide little in the way of any details, I am wondering - where you there? If not, from whom did you hear this story? Were they actually there? See, I am just wondering how many people were in the room at this "private" lesson... or if this was just the story that got repeated later. Perhaps things got exaggerated over time...?
He would call over the years but Sensei's mind was made up and never really warmed up to him, for what it is worth. You would have had to know Kanai sensei, he was very humble, very low key and maybe that was the difference.I personally find this part suspect due to things I have heard over the years. Of course, anything is possible, including that perhaps Seagal Sensei was questioning several of the openings he might have seen in Kanai Sensei's techniques... While I am sure this might be "offensive" to Kanai Sensei, I somehow would more easily believe that Kanai Sensei might not have liked the effect his techniques had on Seagal Sensei. Okay, I actually find the whole idea of Seagal Sensei meeting Kanai Sensei to show his respect or get a private lesson very suspect, very suspect, indeed.

I will ask Matsuoka Sensei about this when we next speak. He would certainly remember having to cover Seagal Sensei's classes while he was out of town, as Seagal Sensei would have still been teaching full time during those years. Although, since it has never been mentioned or even rumored... well, I would love to hear from anyone that was in the room at the time as to what, exactly was said by each party...



.

Edwin Neal
01-16-2006, 07:06 PM
okay you guys just keep sucking me back into it... I have heard the Kanai sensei story too, and the gene lebell and francis fong and other stories from what i would consider reputable sources... i do not personally know sensei seagal so i don't know if his "abrasiveness" is just misunderstood or not...
but based on my post #52 (you gotta watch the video) well I do lean a little toward believing the sources and not the defenders.

neaikikai
01-17-2006, 01:09 AM
I know you don't know me, and I understand that people in life lie, or take information and run with it. I was not there, I have only studied with Kanai sensei for 5 years, but, I have become very close to sensei and his family. His sr. students were there when he was asked to leave, and when he called several times to speak to Steven Seagal and Kanai sensei wanted no part of it. I will not give the names of these students until I run it by them and they give me permision, but these are very, very respected 6th dan's in the USAF and have been part of Kanai sensei's dojo for 25- 30 years. I don't know what to tell you. As I said, you don't know me but I honor and love Kanai sensei too much to ever put lies next to his name, he was my sensei. Also, this disagreement had nothing to do with technique, it was all about personality. I am not here to badmouth Steven Seagal, just wanted to give a true story. Sensei never publically bad mouthed anyone. I know you people don't know me but, the source is rock solid. Belief is a purely personal thing, one has to believe what they want, I only gave the info.

Kris Garland
01-30-2006, 11:16 AM
Go to http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/steven_seagal/index.html alot of things about him...alot of thme aren't so pleasent. How accurate this info is I'm not to sure. But the site is ran by crime tv.

Erik
01-30-2006, 03:11 PM
No comment on the whole thread but I stumbled across SS on USA Network last night for some flick called Submerged. Shoulda been called "Above The Waist" because I don't think his waist line made an appearance in the entire movie.

Per IMDB, he did four in 2005 and another four in 2006. Apparently he's prolific at more than just the buffet table.

odudog
01-31-2006, 03:38 PM
Hey Erik, you need to watch the movie again. His waistline was shown plenty of times. I think they are showing it again tonight.

Edwin Neal
01-31-2006, 03:43 PM
:hypno: mike if you need to watch it to see his waistline... well i'm not even going there

and let's show some respect and call it his 'ki-basket' :D

Chris Li
01-31-2006, 03:47 PM
No comment on the whole thread but I stumbled across SS on USA Network last night for some flick called Submerged. Shoulda been called "Above The Waist" because I don't think his waist line made an appearance in the entire movie.

Per IMDB, he did four in 2005 and another four in 2006. Apparently he's prolific at more than just the buffet table.

OK, so why is it that Seagal's weight almost always comes up, but other instructors with substantial bellys never get mentioned? I can think of any number of senior Japanese instructors who are way beyond Seagal in the belly category, but weight is never mentioned when they are discussed.

Best,

Chris

Edwin Neal
01-31-2006, 03:53 PM
i for one have never taken issue with his weight... just about everything else, but never his weight...;-))

tenshinaikidoka
01-31-2006, 03:58 PM
Because, people think that because he is in the public light theycan bash him bash him. Apparently the harmony of Aikido is truly lost. I bet if people started bashing some Shihan's that are in charge of orginazations (aikido that is) some of these same basherswould come to the defense of thier respected Shihan. Oh well, it is a never ending losing battle, and all this Seagal talk has been done many times before. There are those of us that respect him and there are those that do not. I happen to, but who am I really, just a deshi looking for a better purpose in life I suppose.

Bronson
01-31-2006, 04:12 PM
Found this: "Why Steven Seagal Should Be Your Only Hero" (http://www.uniquedaily.com/articles/WSSSBYODH.html)

Just for a bit of fun ;)

Bronson

Hogan
01-31-2006, 04:14 PM
OK, so why is it that Seagal's weight almost always comes up, but other instructors with substantial bellys never get mentioned? I can think of any number of senior Japanese instructors who are way beyond Seagal in the belly category, but weight is never mentioned when they are discussed.

Best,

Chris

Maybe because he is trying to be a fit martial arts action star that wears stupid long black leather coats trying to hide his weight, and uses stunt doubles for walking down the street.

But that's a guess ...
;)

tenshinaikidoka
01-31-2006, 04:23 PM
Ok Bronson, now that link wasfriggin hilarious. And, sadly, true..LOL

Michael Varin
01-31-2006, 04:26 PM
I would say how funny the "Why Steven Seagal Should Be Your Only Hero" (http://www.uniquedaily.com/articles/WSSSBYODH.html) website is, but I don't want a broken wrist!

Michael

Chris Li
01-31-2006, 04:43 PM
Maybe because he is trying to be a fit martial arts action star that wears stupid long black leather coats trying to hide his weight, and uses stunt doubles for walking down the street.

But that's a guess ...
;)

OTOH, I've seen plenty of Japanese pretending to be fit martial arts instructors with bellys hanging over their belts. At least in the movies everybody is aware that it is make believe.

Best,

Chris

Edwin Neal
01-31-2006, 05:11 PM
hey don't diss fat people they can kick ass too...

SMART2o
02-13-2006, 01:27 PM
For all you Segall buttkissers don't forget to buy his super juice.

http://store1.yimg.com/I/xoxide_1877_28709319


From your posts, it sounds like you have some personal issues with the man. Did he steal your lunchmoney or fool around with your girfriend in school? From what I gather, it appears you are just a hater because of his media/Hollywood exposure.

Gene Skiff
02-14-2006, 07:51 PM
Fat martial artist/actor? Two words....Sammo Hung.

Brad Darr
02-15-2006, 03:57 AM
http://www.aitenshin.com/images/e_precious_time.html

Michael Neal
02-15-2006, 03:26 PM
The Gene Lebell story is legendary and has not been denied by Seagal to the best of my knowledge. The fact that he was abusing members of the crew is a testament to his arrogance and clearly shows how he does not embody the spirit or ideal of Aikido in any way. He deserved to get choked out and relieve himself in his pants in front of everybody on the set.

Then for his defenders to come on here any say that criticising him is un-aiki like is astounding. Seagal should be considered an embarassment to Aikido.

George S. Ledyard
02-15-2006, 08:35 PM
OK, so why is it that Seagal's weight almost always comes up, but other instructors with substantial bellys never get mentioned? I can think of any number of senior Japanese instructors who are way beyond Seagal in the belly category, but weight is never mentioned when they are discussed.

Best,

Chris
I am sure that I beat Seagal Sensei in this category... It's my way of lulling my enemies into a false feeling of security. Seriously, if I were to go to combat, my weight would certainly be a problem. It doesn't interfere with my ability to teach what I know. If folks stay away because I am overweight, well, that's their loss. There are all sorts of things folks have against Seagal Sensei which rate alot higher on the serious scale than his weight, I think.
- George

Counsel
02-15-2006, 10:17 PM
I advise we ignore certain posts as we would certain people on the streat....

Avoiding the 'discussion' and not 'winning the argument' is the victory.

C
aka James Taylor

Misogi-no-Gyo
02-17-2006, 11:09 AM
The Gene Lebell story is legendary and has not been denied by Seagal to the best of my knowledge. The fact that he was abusing members of the crew is a testament to his arrogance and clearly shows how he does not embody the spirit or ideal of Aikido in any way. He deserved to get choked out and relieve himself in his pants in front of everybody on the set.

Then for his defenders to come on here any say that criticising him is un-aiki like is astounding. Seagal should be considered an embarassment to Aikido.

Ah, yes... another blubbering post by Mr. Ding Dong...

Once again we have that "special" someone who gets to come along and spout his nonsense You say, "to the best of my knowledge..." - which if we go by only what you wrote shows you only know what you read somewhere or heard third-hand. If we add in what you meant, then you prove yourself as childish as your petty comments. Since the real truth is that you weren't there, "the best of your knowledge.." really doesn't amount to much, does it?

You talk about somebody being arrogant and not the embodiment of Aikido...? Who do you think you are? Well, I will tell you in case the mirror in your bathroom isn't working, "You, sir are truly an a$$."



.

James Davis
02-17-2006, 11:35 AM
Ah, yes... another blubbering post by Mr. Ding Dong...

Once again we have that "special" someone who gets to come along and spout his nonsense You say, "to the best of my knowledge..." - which if we go by only what you wrote shows you only know what you read somewhere or heard third-hand. If we add in what you meant, then you prove yourself as childish as your petty comments. Since the real truth is that you weren't there, "the best of your knowledge.." really doesn't amount to much, does it?

You talk about somebody being arrogant and not the embodiment of Aikido...? Who do you think you are? Well, I will tell you in case the mirror in your bathroom isn't working, "You, sir are truly an a$$."



.

Don't hold back; tell us how you really feel.

Dennis Hooker
02-17-2006, 11:52 AM
Now thar you go. Don't you see this is exactly why some of us don't become movie stares with hoards of blond hair blue eyed groupies and multi millionaires with mansions on every continent and sports cars and great food with fine wines. Why just the other day someone said Dennis don't you want to become famous and rich and I said NOooo. Then folks is gonna talk bout me. Theys gonna talk bout how I's overweight and loosen my haar and can't spell or talk right. No surreebob you couldn't give me all that money and fame cause folks is gonna talk. I bet old Steve just stays up nights worrying bout whats said here. Sakes alive he's probably wasting away to noth'n not eating nur drink'n because of frett'n over what is said bout him. Sides I got some skeletons in my closet I don't want drug out. I know I'm probably the onlyest one here that ever said something stupid or did something stupid or am vastly ashamed of some things in my life. I think me an old Steve is probably the only two Aikido folks what ever did some really stupid stuff and I ain't going public with mine. So I will just stay poor and relative obscure and maybe folks woun't talk bout me none to much.

Misogi-no-Gyo
02-17-2006, 11:55 AM
Don't hold back; tell us how you really feel.
Us? How many people did it take to write your post, James? :)



.

Dennis Hooker
02-17-2006, 12:00 PM
:) Us? How many people did it take to write your post, James? :)
:D
.


Well I consulted with several of the better looking ones like me and that was the general consensus.

James Davis
02-17-2006, 12:00 PM
Us? How many people did it take to write your post, James? :)



.
Just one, but it's already been read by us. ;)

ryback
07-13-2011, 03:02 AM
(sigh) why can't we just all get along? :)
Some comments aren't even worth responding to, as for the others...

Steven Seagal was already above Dan level when he became head of the Dojo (owned by his wife's father) he was quickly promoted to 5th Dan in consideration for him running the Dojo, he is now 7th Dan promoted by Seiseki Abe, I believe, one of O'Sensei's Uchi Deshi, through Hombu Dojo--Aikikai.
From his website: http://www.stevenseagal.com/aikido.html
His Aikido skills are on the level as any 7th Dan. And yes... he is getting kinda fat... eh, whatcha gonna do? He can always be a "happy buddha".

Seagal has perhaps the best Irimi Aikido. It shows extreme lack of Aikido knowledge to criticize his technique without any substantive or valid points. I have yet to hear a single time that someone had so much venom towards Mr. Seagal that wasn't either a jealous, immature, or lacking in any substantial Aikido techniques.
Aikido is a martial art and should be taught as such. It's not f***$&! dance class. Uses his size?
I would hope so.... but I would watch his technique... ask him yourself, he's had many a smaller Sensei dump him on his butt. I wouldn't use his 'celebrity' persona of any indication of how he is in person.

I think someone needs to practice their ukemi more... perhaps they've fallen too hard.

Hi everybody.I totaly agree,some comments aren't even worth responding to.Steven Seagal sensei has proven his aikido skils through his seminars and his teachings,any mention to his personal life (positive or negative) is irrelevant to this forum and anyway i believe that any claim should come with a proof.It's very easy to target a person whose daily job puts him constantly in the spotlight but we should never forget that Seagal sensei is an Aikido master and he should be treated with respect and not with envy.Therefore, i find your words to be right to the point!If i'm not mistaken Seagal sensei has been promoted to 8th Dan but he hasn't taken the certificate yet.In an interview his comment on this matter was:"We'll see about that".As for the Aikido part of his movies, he is showing the real fighting application of a true martial art,that's all!Sorry if my spelling is a little rusty...:)

aikidoc
07-13-2011, 12:03 PM
Criticizing his aikido is useless, acting well maybe. 8th dan? I think the aikikai bylaws if I recall correctly requires you to be 65 to be promoted to 8th dan. Although, I'm sure exceptions can be made. I do recall reading that somewhere-not sure where. He's a year younger than I am (I'm 62) so if I'm correct-he's not eligible yet. Abe sensei probably had enough pull to make that happen. I'd be surprised if he was though since he does not do much with aikido anymore-just a few dojos and rarely do I seen any seminars or demos.

jester
07-13-2011, 12:32 PM
I think the aikikai bylaws if I recall correctly requires you to be 65 to be promoted to 8th dan.

Is he a member of the Aikikai??

-

chillzATL
07-13-2011, 02:18 PM
Is he a member of the Aikikai??

-

I believe the dojo in Osaka is affiliated with the aikikai, but beyond that it's hard to say. If I'm not mistaken Seagal's rank (to some degree) was given when he married into that family.

David Partington
07-13-2011, 03:11 PM
Minimum age for Aikikai 4th dan is 22 years old. I'm sure somewhere on here someone posted the following (but I couldn't find it again)

Godan - minimum 5 years since 4th dan
Rokudan - minimum 6 years since 5th dan
Nanadan - minimum 12 years since 6th dan
Hachidan - minimum 15 years since 7th dan

If this is correct then the minimum age would be 60 years old.

Hellis
07-13-2011, 04:40 PM
Hi everybody.I totaly agree,some comments aren't even worth responding to.Steven Seagal sensei has proven his aikido skils through his seminars and his teachings,any mention to his personal life (positive or negative) is irrelevant to this forum and anyway i believe that any claim should come with a proof.It's very easy to target a person whose daily job puts him constantly in the spotlight but we should never forget that Seagal sensei is an Aikido master and he should be treated with respect and not with envy.Therefore, i find your words to be right to the point!If i'm not mistaken Seagal sensei has been promoted to 8th Dan but he hasn't taken the certificate yet.In an interview his comment on this matter was:"We'll see about that".As for the Aikido part of his movies, he is showing the real fighting application of a true martial art,that's all!Sorry if my spelling is a little rusty...:)

Yannis

Never mind the spelling - good post - I like Seagals Aikido my thoughts on him as a person are irrelevant.

Henry Ellis
British Aikido
http://britishaikido.blogspot.com/

sakumeikan
07-13-2011, 04:57 PM
I once met a guy who claimed to be a master - he was not ... he just ate all the pies! :D

Dear Philip,
Would this guys name be Steven Seagal?Cheers, Joe.
Ps I like a few dozen steak and kidney pies myself.My ever expanding waistline is proof of my arduous training regime..I await with bated breath a Menkyo Kaiden certificate in noble art of Pie eating.

graham christian
07-13-2011, 06:50 PM
Looking at his Aikido, his style, his application and his ability then I can only admire it.

It's obvious he's a high Dan ranking ability wise.

Regards.G.

Walter Martindale
07-13-2011, 09:38 PM
Resurrection! The thread is 5 years old...

sakumeikan
07-14-2011, 05:04 AM
Yannis

Never mind the spelling - good post - I like Seagals Aikido my thoughts on him as a person are irrelevant.

Henry Ellis
British Aikido
http://britishaikido.blogspot.com/

Dear Henry,
Not often we have conflicting views but on this one,sorry I must disagree with your viewpoint.on Mr Seagals Aikido skills.I base my views on what I have seen on the Net.I discount his choreographic fight scenes in his film work.I do however agree with your second point of Mr Seagal as a person. Cheers, Joe.

ryback
07-14-2011, 08:27 AM
Yannis

Never mind the spelling - good post - I like Seagals Aikido my thoughts on him as a person are irrelevant.

Henry Ellis
British Aikido
http://britishaikido.blogspot.com/

Dear Henry Ellis sensei,thank you very much,i'm realy glad you liked my post.My best wishes!

Anjisan
07-16-2011, 11:52 AM
Dear Henry,
Not often we have conflicting views but on this one,sorry I must disagree with your viewpoint.on Mr Seagals Aikido skills.I base my views on what I have seen on the Net.I discount his choreographic fight scenes in his film work.I do however agree with your second point of Mr Seagal as a person. Cheers, Joe.

I would never attribute skill level to someone based on movies that they appeared in either. Conversely, I would not fail to give someone the respect of the rank that they have earned just because someone has not made any movies either. Saotome sensei and Yamada sensei have not made any movies either but no one questions their rank, abilities or titles. I would look at the Path Beyond Thought excerpts on Youtube where Seagal sensei's Aikido is not choreographed but is actual live footage and see what you think.

Richard Stevens
07-16-2011, 06:09 PM
I would never attribute skill level to someone based on movies that they appeared in either. Conversely, I would not fail to give someone the respect of the rank that they have earned just because someone has not made any movies either. Saotome sensei and Yamada sensei have not made any movies either but no one questions their rank, abilities or titles. I would look at the Path Beyond Thought excerpts on Youtube where Seagal sensei's Aikido is not choreographed but is actual live footage and see what you think.

One might argue that if uke's attack is predictable or instructed, the interaction is choreographed...

dps
07-17-2011, 02:49 AM
Saotome sensei and Yamada sensei have not made any movies either but no one questions their rank, abilities or titles.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089563/

Masterblaster (1987)

Storyline

The national 'Gotcha' championship brings a variety of queer fellows together. A Vietnam veteran always looking for adventure, a female police officer with a trauma, because she once could not shoot in the right moment, a Japanese martial-arts master always looking for the opportunity to train his skills as well as some people who wish nothing more as to get the 50,000 dollars which await the winner. All in all it could be an exciting weekend, when suddenly the game becomes reality as someone is shooting live rounds.

Yoshimitsu Yamada as Yamada the Japanese martial-arts master.

dps

Hellis
07-17-2011, 08:55 AM
Dear Henry,
Not often we have conflicting views but on this one,sorry I must disagree with your viewpoint.on Mr Seagals Aikido skills.I base my views on what I have seen on the Net.I discount his choreographic fight scenes in his film work.I do however agree with your second point of Mr Seagal as a person. Cheers, Joe.

Joe

I agree - one can never take too seriously what we see in the movies. I like the strong condensed style of SS - It looks and is effective.....A friend of mine who writes for a top MA magazine was looking forward to a pre-arranged interview with SS - Afterwards he said SS was the worst of all the people he had interviewed..he did call him some other names which I forget now :)

Henry Ellis
British Aikido
http://britishaikido.blogspot.com/

Anjisan
07-17-2011, 09:18 AM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089563/

Masterblaster (1987)

Storyline

The national 'Gotcha' championship brings a variety of queer fellows together. A Vietnam veteran always looking for adventure, a female police officer with a trauma, because she once could not shoot in the right moment, a Japanese martial-arts master always looking for the opportunity to train his skills as well as some people who wish nothing more as to get the 50,000 dollars which await the winner. All in all it could be an exciting weekend, when suddenly the game becomes reality as someone is shooting live rounds.

Yoshimitsu Yamada as Yamada the Japanese martial-arts master.

dps

I stand corrected 1000%! Yamada sensei appeared in a movie, what,..... 24 years ago that I am willing to bet 98% on the people on this board have never ever heard of let alone let alone serve as a sufficient basis to judge (as if any of us are qualified to begin with) his skill by-assuming we are use movies to do so.

However, my original point is still valid, the appearance/ or lack of one in a movie ( I guess that I will have to have someone-ha ha- appropriate-I am not sure who, it won't be me. I have way way too much respect for him, having been thrown by him, seen him in action, and will be testing for Sandan in front of him-question Saotome sensei about his abilities and titles given has not appeared in a movie)............ is irrelevant.

In Seagal sensei's case (as in any other) if Hombu says you are a (x) dan rank than you are, especially by 7th dan. Of course we can get into rank inflation, evey dojo/ organization having different standards but by that point I don't believe the guys with collectively hundreds, if not thousand of years experience at Hombu would sign off on someone (especially non-japanese) for 7th dan unless the goods were there.

As to the point made that one could argue that attacks are choreographed if is predicted or coached from uke-well that is the essence of many a criticism of the Aikido community and its training methods at least that I have heard by those outside of it. However, in my opinion even if one chooses to dismiss Seagal sensei's demonstrations in the Path Beyond Thought as predictable and choreographed-which seems to me very difficult as a whole to do when one watches it, the randori Seagal sensei demonstrates seems quite impressive.

Chris Li
07-17-2011, 11:36 AM
In Seagal sensei's case (as in any other) if Hombu says you are a (x) dan rank than you are, especially by 7th dan. Of course we can get into rank inflation, evey dojo/ organization having different standards but by that point I don't believe the guys with collectively hundreds, if not thousand of years experience at Hombu would sign off on someone (especially non-japanese) for 7th dan unless the goods were there.

Without commenting on Seagal's rank in particular, there are considerations other than skill that go into a seventh dan promotion and weigh as heavily, or more so. You also have to consider that the hombu, i.e. Doshu, doesn't really know most of the people that get promoted.

Best,

Chris

graham christian
07-17-2011, 12:52 PM
So many looking through green eyes. No wonder.......

Anjisan
07-17-2011, 01:20 PM
Without commenting on Seagal's rank in particular, there are considerations other than skill that go into a seventh dan promotion and weigh as heavily, or more so. You also have to consider that the hombu, i.e. Doshu, doesn't really know most of the people that get promoted.

Best,

Chris

I completely agree with you and yes, other factors certainly weigh in heavily. I don't pretend to know the working of Aikido politics at those altitudes. However, he must have some reasonable trust in those who recommend that someone (in this case Seagal sensei) be promoted-Isoyama sensei, Abe sensei, etc. I do find it curious when someone earlier said that Seagal sensei has been promoted to 8th dan (if true) when others such a Saotome sensei, Yamada sensei, etc have not been promoted first.

Chris Li
07-17-2011, 01:27 PM
I completely agree with you and yes, other factors certainly weigh in heavily. I don't pretend to know the working of Aikido politics at those altitudes. However, he must have some reasonable trust in those who recommend that someone (in this case Seagal sensei) be promoted-Isoyama sensei, Abe sensei, etc. I do find it curious when someone earlier said that Seagal sensei has been promoted to 8th dan (if true) when others such a Saotome sensei, Yamada sensei, etc have not been promoted first.

?? Both Saotome and Yamada are 8th dan already, IIRC...

Best,

Chris

Anjisan
07-17-2011, 02:40 PM
?? Both Saotome and Yamada are 8th dan already, IIRC...

Best,

Chris

Like I said, the politics at that level are out of my league. You are correct in that both are 8th Dan already. I was thinking that given that both were direct students(I am not sure if Yamada sensei was a ushi deshi) not to mention Japanese, heads of large organizations that they would be promoted to 9th Dan before Seagal sensei would be promoted to 8th Dan.

Chris Li
07-17-2011, 06:43 PM
Like I said, the politics at that level are out of my league. You are correct in that both are 8th Dan already. I was thinking that given that both were direct students(I am not sure if Yamada sensei was a ushi deshi) not to mention Japanese, heads of large organizations that they would be promoted to 9th Dan before Seagal sensei would be promoted to 8th Dan.

Difficult, given that the "official" policy is that dan ranks max out at 8th dan :) .

Best,

Chris

aikidoc
07-18-2011, 06:46 PM
Yes, he's aikikai.

The years between ranks are irrelevant. I believe he was awarded 7th dan in 1995 if I recall correctly. So, the 15 years would have elapsed but that does not mean anything-it's the minimum and rarely does anyone get it in the minimum time-especially a gaijin. Again, you never know. Abe sensei had a lot of pull.

aikidoc
07-18-2011, 06:47 PM
It is usually announced officially so it would have been in the aikikai promotion list. So if anyone has it it should be available.

Richard Stevens
07-19-2011, 08:48 AM
What are the requirements for achieving 8th dan? I assume they are more related to one's continuing contributions to Aikido rather than technical progress. If that is the case it doesn't seem like Seagal is actively contributing to the spread of Aikido. Does he even operate a school any longer or give seminars?

OwlMatt
07-24-2011, 11:16 AM
What are the requirements for achieving 8th dan? I assume they are more related to one's continuing contributions to Aikido rather than technical progress. If that is the case it doesn't seem like Seagal is actively contributing to the spread of Aikido. Does he even operate a school any longer or give seminars?

The first requirement for being 8th dan is being born Japanese.

Nicholas Eschenbruch
07-24-2011, 12:02 PM
The first requirement for being 8th dan is being born Japanese.

Within the Aikikai, to be sure. I think Amos Parker is 9th Dan in Yoshinkan Aikido.

graham christian
07-24-2011, 12:32 PM
1) Respect others Dan Grades.2) Don't be jealous.

Remember:

http://youtu.be/zalndXdxriI

Regards.G.

Diana Frese
07-24-2011, 01:46 PM
Sorry, Graham, my computer still isn't bringing up You tube. But it seems like a good thing to follow your advice.

About Yamada Sensei as an uchideshi, according to the history, Arikawa Sensei threw Yamada Sensei's clothes out the window because it was his space. But he became a good senpai to both Yamada Sensei and Kanai Sensei, who later invited him to seminars and summer camps.

Yamada Sensei's biography is available on the website his European students made for him, and I think there is a link to it thru the NYAikikai website.

In the 1980's people asked about the Aikido in the movies. I answered it looked like really good Aikido technique to me. The broken arms and stuff were because, in the movie, the villians had killed the hero's family members. It was classical Aikido in a law enforcement setting, with whatever added that was necessary...
Anyway, we liked watching the movies, and it did get more of the general public interested in finding out about Aikido...

Just some memories from the eighties....

from someone pushing seventy, as one of my former students just reminded me I am, on the phone about an hour ago.

graham christian
07-24-2011, 02:27 PM
Sorry, Graham, my computer still isn't bringing up You tube. But it seems like a good thing to follow your advice.

About Yamada Sensei as an uchideshi, according to the history, Arikawa Sensei threw Yamada Sensei's clothes out the window because it was his space. But he became a good senpai to both Yamada Sensei and Kanai Sensei, who later invited him to seminars and summer camps.

Yamada Sensei's biography is available on the website his European students made for him, and I think there is a link to it thru the NYAikikai website.

In the 1980's people asked about the Aikido in the movies. I answered it looked like really good Aikido technique to me. The broken arms and stuff were because, in the movie, the villians had killed the hero's family members. It was classical Aikido in a law enforcement setting, with whatever added that was necessary...
Anyway, we liked watching the movies, and it did get more of the general public interested in finding out about Aikido...

Just some memories from the eighties....

from someone pushing seventy, as one of my former students just reminded me I am, on the phone about an hour ago.

Hi Diana.
Yes, to fill you in on the post ie: youtube, it was an old series that used to be on when I was a kid about a man who was 'imprisoned' on an Island. He woke up to find he was in this strange place and on enquiring where he was he was told he was number six. Thus came about his answer as a saying that everyone used which was 'I am not a number, I am a free man!'

To take the significance off of these numbered titles. Again to show you can have a more balanced view, if you try.

On the respect side of things I agree with what you say. I love his movies, knowing they are entertainment. Yet they do give an insight to the public that there is a thing called Aikido. Thus he's done more for public awareness than most.

I bet he's attracted more people to the art than most as well.

In my opinion respect is due.

Why people in the art publicly put him down is beyond me. As usual things can only be weakened from within by negativity, that old saying 'The enemy lies within'

Regards.G.

aikidoc
07-26-2011, 04:56 PM
Segal sensei made the news today. Seems that his "Steven Seagal Lawman" had him use a tank to raid an alleged cock fighter's house (he was unarmed) which in the process killed 120 birds and did several thousand dollars damage to the property. The allegedly knocked down a fence which was again propped up so Seagal could be shot in the tank. Too funny. Life is sometimes crazier than the movies.

genin
07-26-2011, 05:50 PM
I've still yet to determine if that Lawman show is designed to mock all law enforcement or just Steven Seagal specifically. I mean what's next, Jean Claude Van Damme as a firefighter?!?