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luis simoes
06-16-2001, 08:38 AM
don't know if the information is available somewhere already.... but where can I find info on the different styles?.... what is the root for their existence? (difference interprestation of the spirit?... different realization?..)
why would someone choose between style A,B,...
TIA

guest1234
06-16-2001, 12:27 PM
well, you could wait a week or two and i'm sure a discussion on the relative merits of one over another will start here...for less heated versions, you might visit a bookstore or library, if there is more than one or two books on Aikido, they will undoubtedly be by authors of different styles, and you could see for yourself any similarities and differences. Better still, if your sensei doesn't mind visit another style dojo or seminar. Why are they different? Have you ever noticed after your instructor tells your class to do the technique that several folks seem to be doing something else---we all observe and perform through our own eyes and with our individual bodies, O Sensei's students were no different. In addition, several of O Sensei's students came and went at different points in O Sensei's development of Aikido. At the risk of starting one of those heated discussions here, i PERSONALLY don't see that any one is better than any other, they are all variations on a theme, sometimes more reliance on timing, or entering, or body mechanics, though i think all of those are important to every style. I think the longer folks do Aikido, the more alike the styles look, so perhaps it is what each style feels is important to teach beginners (who tend to be the most passionate about the one true way)that differs. At least when i've seen different students of the Founder, the main thing i get is a sense of what they found to be important in their own studies...but i am also a beginner and often am wrong.

guest1234
06-16-2001, 12:31 PM
perhaps if we are good, and promise not to criticise ANY style that may respond, some of the senseis in those styles that visit here will be kind enough to share what they see as the fundamental core of their own style?

Kami
06-16-2001, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by luis simoes
don't know if the information is available somewhere already.... but where can I find info on the different styles?.... what is the root for their existence? (difference interprestation of the spirit?... different realization?..)
why would someone choose between style A,B,...
TIA

KAMI : Oh, well...a flower has many forms and perfums, which is the better one? There's an enormous variety of animals, which is the better? We have many schools of painting, which is "the correct one"?
It seems diversity, not uniformity, is nature's law...
We might say (and that's a gross simplification) that each style represents a personal interpretation of the Founder's Aikido. Even people who consider themselves "faithful" to the Founder's Aikido, are in reality expressing their own views.
Among major styles, we have Yoshinkan which is based on O-Sensei's Aikibudo period and stresses the importance of standardized techniques; Ki-Aikido which stresses the importance of Ki and Ki exercises; Tomiki which emphasizes the importance of competition; and Aikikai, which really isn't a style but more like an "umbrella organization", holding together many interpretations of Aikido. You just have to see the Doshu, Yamada Yoshimitsu Sensei, Fujita Sensei, Arikawa Sensei, Tamura Sensei, Isoyama Sensei and so many others.
I think Colleen has hit the mark : A dog is a dog, no matter what his race, just as Aikido is Aikido, no matter what the "style". Each emphasizes an aspect. You choose what you find best for you.
IMHO

Chuck Clark
06-16-2001, 08:09 PM
There are many people who could give you their definition of what each of the many "styles" of aikido/aikibudo emphasizes in their practice. However, those are all just personal views of those styles that are often colored by "who knows what." The best of definitions are more subjective than we would like.

I recommend that interested students do their own homework and research the various styles to see what you think for yourselves after hearing what others have to say about their own style. Take what everyone says with a grain of salt and feel their practice; then trust your gut instincts.

It is difficult and time consuming. If it's that important to you ... live with it and make up your own mind.

Regards,

Jim23
06-17-2001, 07:58 PM
I'm not sure if you are looking for a school or if you just want info regarding the styles.

If you are looking for a school, here's some further advice (which could also cause more confusion). If it is possible, check out a few different clubs in each style, as there can be vast differences in teaching styles and atmosphere between the clubs.

Could be difficult though. I could only find one style (many clubs) near me.

Jim23

PeterR
06-17-2001, 09:00 PM
A me too with respect to what Chuck says with the added comment that after you've spent some time - explore a little bit. I personally found my little niche but only gained by tasting from the fruit basket.

Ubaldo - as I've pointed out before Tomiki has competition but does not emphasize it. The main emphasis is pretty much what you described for Yoshinkan. This is done through basic exercies and a series of kata sets. These kata sets are complemented through randori which may include competion.

Kami
06-17-2001, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by PeterR
Ubaldo - as I've pointed out before Tomiki has competition but does not emphasize it. The main emphasis is pretty much what you described for Yoshinkan. This is done through basic exercies and a series of kata sets. These kata sets are complemented through randori which may include competion.

KAMI : Sorry, Peter, my mistake...Consider me corrected...:)
Best regards
Ubaldo

PeterR
06-17-2001, 09:20 PM
No problem Ubaldo.

By the way there is a translation of an old Aikinews biography of Kenji Tomiki and also of his long term student Ohba at

http://www.shobukai.be/

I have yet to read them - perhaps sometime today.

Erik
06-17-2001, 10:38 PM
Can't blame the guy for asking though. I went through the Bay Area via Aikiweb's search and hit all of the following affiliations/organizations:

ASU
Pacific Aikido Federation
Iwama
AANC Divisions 1 (Iwama), 2 and 3
Jiyushinkai
USAF East
USAF West
Pacific Aikido Takemusukai
Shusekai
Kokikai Aikido International
Seidokan
Yoshokai (yoshinkan?)
Yoshinkan (IYAF?)
Ki Society
New School Aikido

I thought we had a Tomiki school (Berkeley) as well but it didn't show up. Someone could do a search on aikido in the Bay Area and their head would spin around and fly into orbit trying to figure out who is what.

PeterR
06-17-2001, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Erik
I thought we had a Tomiki school (Berkeley) as well but it didn't show up. Someone could do a search on aikido in the Bay Area and their head would spin around and fly into orbit trying to figure out who is what.

You do - it is run by Sean Flynn. It is possible to train five days a week with them.

Sean has spent time at Shodokan Honbu and one of his students just finished a year here - earning nidan. Currently another of his students is here and it looks like Shihan will test him for Shodan before he leaves. I spend a lot of time with he has had good training back home. I really recommend training with Sean.

The club shohold be listed at
http://www.tomiki.org

Erik
06-17-2001, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by PeterR


You do - it is run by Sean Flynn. It is possible to train five days a week with them.

Sean has spent time at Shodokan Honbu and one of his students just finished a year here - earning nidan. Currently another of his students is here and it looks like Shihan will test him for Shodan before he leaves. I spend a lot of time with he has had good training back home.

The club shohold be listed at
http://www.tomiki.org

Indeed there is http://members.aol.com/berkeleyaikido

I really recommend training with Sean.

Ya know, anything as evil as competition ;) is just the type of thing to interest me and so I've been giving that very idea some thought. I've been searching the various Tomiki sites and even picked up a book on it. Looks like Aikido to me.

Maybe once I get that hole in my head all the way fixed and a few other things put back together.....

PeterR
06-18-2001, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Erik
Ya know, anything as evil as competition ;) is just the type of thing to interest me and so I've been giving that very idea some thought. I've been searching the various Tomiki sites and even picked up a book on it. Looks like Aikido to me.

Well I can only recommend that you try just as I went and trained with Aikikai people. In the end I knew where I wanted to be, although I visit the Aikikai folks quite a bit. Good Aikido is good Aikido.

ian
06-18-2001, 05:08 AM
When is aikido not aikido? To me it is when it stops becoming a useful method for self-defence. Aikido could easily drift into being nothing more than a method for improving health or a system of moving meditation. Although it may have these aspects I personally think aikido should be defined by the fact that it is a practical self-defence system which incorporates the concept of blending with your partner. Without this I think it becomes something else.

As far as styles go, I don't think that 'hard' or 'soft' styles or various different styles are wrong or right. To me the comparison is inappropiate because aikido just has to be a system that works, and involves blending. Therefore there isn't such a thing as 'soft' and 'hard' aikido - the aikido should be suited to the situation.

A senesei I know comments that we learn set aikido forms in order to do an 'aikido technique', but this isn't real aikido, 'cos real aikido is not repeating everything you've done in the past, but living in the now and dealing with the situation as it is. Whether a technique is right or wrong is intimately dependent on what uke is doing. The best way to deal with this is to have a broad experience of training to allow adaptatiton to new situations.

Ian

andrew
06-18-2001, 10:47 AM
http://www.aikidofaq.com/introduction.html#12

andrew
06-18-2001, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by ian
As far as styles go, I don't think that 'hard' or 'soft' styles or various different styles are wrong or right.


But I think people are often wrong.....

andrew

Jim23
06-19-2001, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Erik

Ya know, anything as evil as competition ;) is just the type of thing to interest me and so I've been giving that very idea some thought. I've been searching the various Tomiki sites and even picked up a book on it. Looks like Aikido to me.


So, you've been reading subversive literature?

You know that once you step over to the dark side, there may be no turning back. ;)

After experiencing uke's resistance a few times, you may even start calling your dogi a judogi!

And he was such a nice fellow.

Jim23