kneeling pins

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[ian]

When I first started aikido I got into the habit of always doing kneeling pins. This is probably because this is the formal way to do it for grading.

However, a couple of years later I realised this was becoming a bad habit because even for multiple attacks I wanted to do a kneeling pin. Luckily I never had that situation occur outside the dojo, but I soon changed my habitual patterns into doing standing pins. In fact I try to do standing pins unless we are working up for gradings.

Also, I know a policeman who did shiho-nage on someone, and through habit, just stood back up again and the agressor just stood up and hit them.

Has anyone experienced habitual practise in aikido that they later realised was not such a good idea, and maybe even changed the way they trained?

Ian

[andrew]

This is a problem that never even occored to me, but now it has I think it's kind of funny. I don't do kneeling pins when I'm lazy. I do when I'm really tired and want a breaths break.
Should you be using pins of any kind where multiple attackers or involved? (I know I _would_ do that, I just think it's not a great plan)

andrew

[guest1234]

i was just in a defensive tactics class (my first time in something like that), police/ATF/FBI participants...while i prefer Aikido to what we were taught (for a variety of reasons) what i found most interesting was i had trouble remembering to keep talking while i did the techniques...I'm so used to being quiet while i train that i kept forgeting to 'order' my partner to 'stop, get down,' etc
funny what becomes habit. since i don't plan on having to give orders while doing Aikido, it is not exactly a bad habit to be quiet, and i think Aikido lends itself better to directing movement without words than what we were being taught in the class, but i thought it was interesting i'd already formed that habit.

[JJF]

I know I have a lot of bad habits when it comes to aikido, and I'm probably just aware of a fraction of them :(.... The worst however might be my habit to divide the technique into parts with breaks in between each part. During theses breaks I take time to feel my grunding, check the distance and position for atemi etc. Good things to do I think, but not EVERY time. It ruins the flow of my technique and it has probably something to do with my previous Shotokan Karate practice in which all kihon practice is focused on having strong stances.

Oh and like many other I tend to get sloppy when I'm tired. Baaaaad habit ;)

[ian]

It is certainly interesting when you can tell what martial arts someone has done by the way they do aikido (I think I can generally tell whether a beginner has done karate, ju-jitsu, jung-fu or judo before for vaious reasons). Maybe other martial arts find the same (I know with my brief brush with Taekwondo that I picked up the arm manipulation/pin techniques far more quickly).

However I'm sure this will change as the techniques become more natural*.

Ian

*(is this a contradiction in terms - training until it becomes natural?)

[[Censored]]

It is certainly interesting when you can tell what martial arts someone has done by the way they do aikido (I think I can generally tell whether a beginner has done karate, ju-jitsu, jung-fu or judo before for vaious reasons).

I agree. It is extremely interesting to see different people's conceptions of a "good attack", as well as their "Plan B" when the initial response doesn't work very well.

[Jim23]

Are you saying that someone who trained in karate or judo, etc. don't know how to attack? And that aikidoka do?

I think I must have misunderstood your post.

Jim23

[guest1234]

what i understand 'censored' to be saying is those with previous martial arts experience may have a preconceived idea, based on what was done in their previous training, on what an attack should look like...i think it is probably possible that someone used to an opponent, rather than a partner, may purposely attack in a way designed to counter the technique that is to be practiced, not understanding uke's role in the practice or acting out of habit.
i also think they may revert to their previous martial art techniques when aikido doesn't seem to be working for them, or again just out of habit. Having studied five different styles of Aikido in two years, i can see that happening to me, even in the same martial art, and with little experience.

[[Censored]]

Are you saying that someone who trained in karate or judo, etc. don't know how to attack?

Don't tempt me! ;)

Actually, I just meant that it is great to work against different types of threats. You have to be able to cope with the seemingly inane attacks, as well as good ones.

For example, up until last month, I considered a backhanded slap to the chest to be a worthless, perhaps even laughable, attack. I wouldn't have gone to much trouble to stop it.

Then I ran into someone who smacked the hell out of me, with a backhanded slap to the chest! It was a painful, hilarious, shocking experience.

So, working with these types of people is often enlightening as well as amusing. That is what I meant by "interesting".

[ian]

Yep, I think what happens in all martial arts is we practise similar moves again and again until it becomes a part of what we do. This is different between different martial arts and even different 'styles' - I expect it's partly due to the way we simulate attacks. However I would not say this necessarily has anything to do with effectiveness (stangely enough). I think in 'real' situations you often do very novel things that you've never thought of before. (the subconscious certainly is a stange thing). To me, that is why concepts and basics are far more impotant than techniques.

Ian