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View Full Version : who'd you go back in time to train with?


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rob_liberti
11-21-2005, 08:04 AM
So I heard on the radio recently that some physics professor had a theory on time travel (I assume backwards since I'm already going forward at the rate of 1 second per second myself) and that it had successfully passed peer review. So, lets say some one takes that to the point of making a time travel device and you could go back in time to train with anyone who would you go see?

I would certainly want to meet O-sensei - especially when he was still personally teaching. But how fun would it be to go back in time and say take ukemi for Saotome sensei's shodan test - or meet Tohei sensei as a total newbie and show him unbendable arm!

I would love to go back and visit a class where my sensei was just 1 rank higher than me now and get to work out with him. He'd be thinking - this visitor is so intuitive - it's like he knows what I'm going to do before I do it and stays right with me!

Anyway, I thought it might be a fun idea to explore.

Rob

Nick Simpson
11-21-2005, 08:31 AM
Gozo Shioda sensei.

crbateman
11-21-2005, 10:18 AM
But how fun would it be to go back in time and say take ukemi for Saotome sensei's shodan test - or meet Tohei sensei as a total newbie and show him unbendable arm!
I'm afraid that, if my instruction was the first encountered by Tohei Sensei, Aikido would immediately be set back 200 years... ;)

And if the concept of temporal paradox (back in time, kill your father, you disappear) is valid, I would now be well-rested but bored, and have a much smaller book collection.

Seriously, though, I think it would be interesting to go back and watch those accomplished and illustrious teachers that I respect so much, as they learned the art. It would be revealing to see if the magic was in the teaching or the learning.

Dan Herak
11-21-2005, 10:22 AM
I'm already going forward at the rate of 1 second per second

Rob

I have to use this line sometime.

I have two thoughts on this and you have touched on both. One is to train with the great teachers and it would have been great to train with O-Sensei or Saito and Tohei Senseis in their prime.

But it would also be cool to, say, watch O-Sensei on his first day of martial arts training or something of that sort. Just to watch this absolute newbie that you knew would grow into a master.

Ulises Garcia
11-21-2005, 10:27 AM
O-Sensei, pre-war. Hands down.

Kevin Leavitt
11-21-2005, 12:26 PM
Japanese Arts? Myamoto Musashi (if he really exsisted the way the literature paints him)

American Martial Arts? Robert Rodgers (of "Rodgers Rangers fame...I'm a Ranger, what can I say :")

After that it would be a toss up between Jigaro Kano and O'Sensei as they refined things into Budo. I think it would be necessary to study with brilliant, raw tacticians before studying with these two, to appreciate what they would teach.

rob_liberti
11-21-2005, 01:21 PM
I think I would re-visit some of the same seminars over an over again as I got better. It would be fun having my better at aikido self from the future as a partner.

Rob

James Davis
11-21-2005, 03:11 PM
I think I'd like to "train" with the guys who jumped me before I knew aikido. evileyes

Devon Natario
11-21-2005, 04:52 PM
I'd like to go back and train with Jigaro Kano or possibly even before his time and train with the Saburai.

How neat it would be to train with the Samurai.........

Joe Bowen
11-21-2005, 05:18 PM
Sokaku Takeda, then Morihei Ueshiba, then Gozo Shioda, Koichi Tohei, Terry Dobson, Don Dreager and time allowing :) Kisshomaru Ueshiba, Hikitsuchi, Osawa (Sr), Nishio, Yasuo Kobayashi (when he was younger) and a whole host of others too numerous to list.
And while it would be interesting to see my own sensei or senseis that I know well when they were younger, I think I would use time travel first to see those that I have missed the opportunity to know.
But, be prepared, as often the myth is more impressive than the person which is why I probably would not select Musashi, as I think I am content with his story as it is. ;)

Tim Gerrard
11-21-2005, 06:09 PM
Kano, when he first broke away from Ju-Jitsu and O'Sensei are definatly the top of my list.
But although Mr Bowen mentioned how a myth is often bigger than the man, the duel between Miyamoto Musashi and Muso Gunnosuke, for me, would've have been the one to watch.

ad_adrian
11-21-2005, 06:09 PM
morihei ueshiba (pre war) or gozo shioda (post war)

adrian

Mike Fugate
11-22-2005, 12:44 AM
Wow, what a question. If lets say time travel were possible, which myself I still believe it is simply a hypothesis and a theory regardless of what whomever may say,,,Hypotheticaly speaking of course and Butterfly Theory free,,,,I would with out a question train with the Shaolin Monks. The Real Shaolin Temple of old, not the one the stands today. To me training in a place such as O-mei Shan Temple must have been so beautiful and absolutley enlightening. It was truly the melting pot of the Shaolin Kung Fu and Oriental practices....With everything from Taoist, Buddhist, Confucist, Medicinal, and Fighting arts melted into such a place one can only wonder of what wonders existed there. The O-Mei system was made up of over 300 diff. styles made into one.... :) :ki: Such a shame that treasures like these are lost due to the ignorance of mankind :(

xuzen
11-22-2005, 01:07 AM
I would go all the way back to the time of The Trojan war and train with Archilles, the God of War himself.

batemanb
11-22-2005, 01:10 AM
I would of course like to see O Sensei in his prime, perhaps take some ukemi, and practice with some of today's famous names when they were just starting out. But if I could, I would really like to spend a lot of time with Yamaguchi Sensei.

rgds

Bryan

Jim ashby
11-22-2005, 04:55 AM
I'd go back and take all of the classes that I was stupid enough to miss (or skip because I was too lazy, tired or distracted) with Tom Moss Sensei. Only now that he's gone do I realise what a phenomenal man he was. I miss him.

Nick Simpson
11-22-2005, 05:42 AM
If we are talking outside aikido then I would also want to train with Musashi and with that yagyu guy who taught the tokugawa's, his name escapes me though.

batemanb
11-22-2005, 06:28 AM
If we are talking outside aikido then I would also want to train with Musashi and with that yagyu guy who taught the tokugawa's, his name escapes me though.

Yagyu Munenori?

rgds

Bryan

Steve Mullen
11-22-2005, 06:29 AM
was it Yagyu Jubei Mitsuyoshi? i just did a quick search as i was curious! personally it would be musashi for swordwork, for aikido it would be o'sensei while he was still formalising aikido, i would love to have known what was going on in his mind while he was creating aikido. i would love to have lived with the samurai for a year, to be able to devote my life to budo like THAT would be brilliant

Nick Simpson
11-22-2005, 07:09 AM
'to be able to devote my life to budo like THAT would be brilliant'

Yeah especially if you had to cut your stomach open...

And I believe it was Munenori I was after, thanks Bryan!

Steve Mullen
11-22-2005, 07:22 AM
ah, my guy was your guy's son

Nick Simpson
11-22-2005, 07:23 AM
Lolz.

rob_liberti
11-22-2005, 07:49 AM
I would want to see these great people too. I don't think I would _start out_ going back to see O-sensei or Yamaguchi sensei doing their best aikido for anything other than to get an image. I would want to find some excellent folks while they were more intermediate level and spend time with them first. Then I would want to go see those incredible instructors mainly to get to work out with the folks in the class. I guess I still think it is easier to learn from people who are just a little bit over you than it is to learn from someone miles ahead of you. I remember visiting Takeda sensei. After about a week and a half of me attacking him at full speed and wondering how he seemed to disappear and reappear behind me, I got fairly convinced that I wasn't going to be ready to understand what the heck he was showing any time soon. I don't really want to spend any more time being _that_ hopelessly lost. I figure if I still have no idea what he is doing, I'm not going to get all that much insight by watching his teacher or his teacher's teacher - not yet anyway. BUt hope springs eternal.

Rob

Steve Mullen
11-22-2005, 07:52 AM
i love the way aikido can have that trickle down effect you just mentioned Rob, and when you learn like that you get all the influences of all the people it has filtered through. training with the student of the student of the sensei you admire means you get his influence and all of those below him

Lan Powers
11-22-2005, 08:08 AM
Son House, T-Bone Walker, Jimi Hendrix, The Late-Great Stevie Ray Vaughn.....:D
Sorry, I have pondered that question in the musical context much more.
But in Martial arts, I would love to have gotten a chance to train a bit with several....Nishio Sensei comes to mind first, probably since the opportunity so recently vanished.

Lan

odudog
11-22-2005, 09:08 AM
I would love to work with Sokaku Takeda and any other person of merit from the old days. The opportunity to learn the differences between Daito Ryu and Aikido and any other ancient Jujitsu art that is no longer available would be priceless. I'm constitantly trying to find out where the techniques originally came from and why it is done the way it is.

djalley
11-22-2005, 10:06 AM
I think I'd go back and give myself a real stern talking to. I quit aikido after college, only to rediscover it 10 years later. Time lost, wisdom gained...

odudog
11-22-2005, 10:16 AM
Mr. Alley, I did the exact same thing although I came back 14 yrs. later. I did attempt to come back earlier but was unable to find a dojo. I could kick myself for all the time lost!

On a sidenote, thank goodness there is a thing called the internet. I would never have been able to find a dojo without it {thanks to the wife for forcing me get up to speed}. It's amazing how many dojos there are in my neck of the woods but they don't advertise in the yellow book. When you do look, you see Tae Kwon Do everywhere.

crbateman
11-22-2005, 11:13 AM
When you do look, you see Tae Kwon Do everywhere.
This is because, in America at least, TKD is pretty much all about business, profit, and self-promotion. It's a shame, really. I can remember one of my teachers (native Korean) having us walk for miles putting handbills on cars, attending sales training seminars, waving at traffic on busy streets, doing demos in bars and nightclubs, and telling parents of prospective students how "coordinated" and "well suited to TKD" their kids already were, even though some could barely put one foot in front of another without falling down. It was embarrasing. I hated it. And it hit rock bottom when he spent a million$$$ to produce an action movie with him as the star, and then went to Cannes to try and promote it. Now he makes his money running seminars and management retreats for those who want to get rich opening "day-care dojos". Sigh... :rolleyes:

Devon Natario
11-22-2005, 12:23 PM
Now if we were to go back, how many of you think you would get a chance based off of your ethnicity?

I am 25% Japanese and I can almost guarantee I wouldn't get a chance to train with some of the people named. :( So even if we did go back in time, it wouldn't too much matter in a lot of cases.

Nick Simpson
11-22-2005, 01:17 PM
You could probably train with osensei, if you could get 2 letters of reccomendation from pillars of the community and had dan ranking in another art.

Amassus
11-22-2005, 02:55 PM
if you could get 2 letters of reccomendation from pillars of the community and had dan ranking in another art.

Oh how things have changed :)

guest89893
11-22-2005, 03:43 PM
Sorry Rob, the theory your referring too, has one little drawback you can't go back past the time of the vehicle date of construction, if it ever gets developed. According to Amos Ori who proposed the model your referring too. It is an interesting theory though- here is the easy short version (only way I could get it) from theoretical physicist Amos Ori:
What I describe is some configuration of spacetime, some distribution of curvature that will allow a physical object or person to move along an orbit and travel back to the past. I wrote mathematically the initial configuration of spacetime, which according to the laws of nature, will evolve into a time machine, provided that the process is not first destroyed by instability. The question is: Will nature allow such a configuration?

So your plan about revisiting seminars may hold possible if this were to work...It is a fascinating theory, though.

Mike Collins
11-22-2005, 11:46 PM
I'd like to take a beating from a young Shirata Sensei. I'd like to train one on one with Kato Sensei just to see if I could hang with him as a young guy. Problem is, I'd need to do all this with a young me. This one is too beat up and tired to play with the big boys in their prime. Terry Dobson maybe just before he came back from Japan; Tomiki Sensei while he taught at the Kobukan. And with OSensei in 1925, while he was working stuff out. With Nidai Doshu in 1965 for some reason. With current Doshu in 1979. Wally Jay in 1964-5. Have coffee with Bruce Lee....

There are just too many really amazing possibilities. I'd like to go back and see if I (now) could kick my own (then) butt, and get me straightened out earlier. Or tell my Dad what a smart guy he was. If people could ever begin to go backward, there'd be a population boom in our own immediate past.

rulemaker
11-23-2005, 12:25 AM
I'd like to train with O'Sensei during the time of the "Hell Dojo"! Imagine what it would be like training with all of his top students that time.

I would also like to train with Kano, Funakoshi (karate), Sokaku Takeda, and Musashi.

Nick Simpson
11-23-2005, 04:28 AM
Id like to go back and train with Raquel Welch...

Eddie deGuzman
11-23-2005, 08:01 AM
Not to spoil the party, but there is only now.

Good luck,
Eddie

crbateman
11-23-2005, 08:31 AM
Id like to go back and train with Raquel Welch...She ain't so bad, even now...

Rupert Atkinson
05-31-2008, 04:36 AM
Before you go off training with people who probably would refuse to entertain you, it might be a good idea to throw yourselves into a few medeival battles to warm yourselves up. With such experience behind you, if you survive, you might be a little bit more ready to begin. And you might be a little more ready to learn. In short, teachable.

Kinda makes you realise just how hard it is for us, eh?

Chris Parkerson
05-31-2008, 05:03 AM
Saigo Shiro
Then I would know from the horse's mouth how Yamarashi was really executed.

Sun Lu Tang

Abraham Lincoln - I would like to feel his "Flying Mare" to see if he was really that good.

Georgeous George

Chris Parkerson
05-31-2008, 05:14 AM
Sampson - after all he did all those Philistines in with the jawbone of an ass.

What technique and spirit he must have had.

And of course Achilles.

rob_liberti
05-31-2008, 06:26 AM
Oh my gosh, posting in this old thread again - I feel like I'm back in time already. -Rob

Stefan Stenudd
05-31-2008, 10:31 AM
I'd love to practice for the same teachers that I have enjoyed in real life, like Nishio sensei, Tamura sensei, Yamaguchi sensei, Saito sensei, and so on. Also Osensei, of course, and why not all the way back to Miyamoto Musashi - hoping to survive his stern teaching...

gregg block
05-31-2008, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't go. To afraid of the "ripple" theory. I may come back to find I was never born!

JamesC
05-31-2008, 12:12 PM
Like someone posted above, i'd love to have a chat with Bruce. Not really train with him, but just have some good convo. The guy was a great philosopher and revolutionary in the martial art world then.

Any of the great generals would be a thrill as well.

Sun Tzu
Napoleon
Alexander the Great
etc.

Imagine the things you could learn from them...

Don_Modesto
05-31-2008, 01:17 PM
BUN-Takeda Shingen
BU-Tsukuhara Bokuden

Shany
06-01-2008, 12:38 AM
Koichi Tohei sensei!!

mwible
06-01-2008, 03:44 PM
I think I'd like to "train" with the guys who jumped me before I knew aikido. evileyes

haha, that was funny :p

ohwait! u were serious?!
;)

Aikiscott
06-01-2008, 04:17 PM
O'sensei Any time hands down
Takeda Sokaku
Goza Shioda
Gichen Funakoshi
Hinonori Otsuka
Anko Itosu
Iso Mataemon Masatari
Jigaro Kano

Dathan Camacho
06-01-2008, 04:54 PM
Taking this to it's logical conclusion - Yoda, pre-clone wars.

Enrique Antonio Reyes
06-01-2008, 11:05 PM
Now if we were to go back, how many of you think you would get a chance based off of your ethnicity?

I am 25% Japanese and I can almost guarantee I wouldn't get a chance to train with some of the people named. :( So even if we did go back in time, it wouldn't too much matter in a lot of cases.

I understand. So I guess for me I wouldn't go back that far...probably around the early 60's when they really wanted to spread the art. I'd probably train with Tohei Sensei and aim to be the first Filipino Aikidoka...ha ha...This is fun...