ukemi with bokken

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[adriangan]

hello everyone,

it's been a long time since i last posted. anyway, a thought just popped in my head and i'm sure you guys can help, i was just wondering is it possible to do ukemi with a bokken? if so, how?

thanks much!

adrian

[akiy]

Sure -- just keep the pointy end out of the mat, yourself, and others.

Just last night, a couple of guys were practicing koshinage for tachidori. They were using an iaito, though...

-- Jun

[adriangan]

Originally posted by akiy
Sure -- just keep the pointy end out of the mat, yourself, and others.

Just last night, a couple of guys were practicing koshinage for tachidori. They were using an iaito, though...

-- Jun

thanks jun,

though i'm more particularly interested in doing rolls with the ken, cause i'm trying to imagine how not to roll over the ken. is there any particular position that i have to assume in order to do this?

adrian

[ian]

Rolling with the bokken is similar in principle to rolling with the jo. Basically you roll down the lower hand (the left hand) so that the butt of the bokken doesn't hit the ground. Whilst rolling you must make sure that the bokken point is angled towards the right (around about horizontal) so the bokken point doesn't stick in the mat as you rise.

You can continue to hold the bokken with both hands if you wish, or alternatively release your right hand for a break fall. It is also possible to roll down the other side - but this is far more difficult as you must roll more over your shoulder (otherwise the bokken butt hits the ground and you find your hands cross over making it awkward).

Best thing is to practise from kneeling as you will have less force on the bokken if it hits the ground. Once you've done this standing is easy. I don't really know why rolling with a weapon is useful, though it is good to get rid of the distinction between holding and not holding something.

If you are really into ukemi try these two:

1. ukemi with 2 people holding hands (rolling off outside arms).

2. ukemi with 3 people holding hands; the middle person rolls without their arms - although they co-ordinate it with an outside member so they roll over the same shoulder (otherwise it is just a painfull back flip).


Hope this helps,

Ian

[adriangan]

ian,

great post, will try it as soon as i step on the mat. :D

thanks much,

adrian

[okidoki]

Originally posted by ian
I don't really know why rolling with a weapon is useful...

How about if you get to be uke for a sandan test where your job is to attack with bokken...?

[ian]

Well I hope they would disarm me! If a sandan lets me get away with an attack without controlling my weapon I would certainly get up for another (due to the nature of the the bokken ukemi as well, if the nage doesn't disarm you there can be the potential for a nasty injury on Nage as you roll, especially if you turn to face them).

Just as a snippet - I heard that there was a problem at one time in Japan due to people doing forward ukemi whilst throwing a dagger behind them (ie. they would throw it between their legs as they did the ukemi). Quite a cool trick, and hard to see coming.

Ian

[mj]

Originally posted by ian
Just as a snippet - I heard that there was a problem at one time in Japan due to people doing forward ukemi whilst throwing a dagger behind them (ie. they would throw it between their legs as they did the ukemi). Quite a cool trick, and hard to see coming.

Ian

:D I like that...a lot!!!

As to rolling with a bokken, if you have to think about it, or if you start to think about it... forget it.

[Aikilove]

Just try it out on your own and find what ways is possible and ok to fall in, I say. It is good to know however and not all the time you disarm an tachi attack. Ken tai Jo is one example where there is alot of throwing variations (nage throws uke with the jo, and uke has to fall sometime only holding the ken in one hand). I like it though and I feel it makes me a better uke since it's another way to teach your body how to receive energy in a safe way.

[guest1234]

Well, yes, hopefully the sandan disarms you (although even they have bad days), probably more likely to occur when your fellow kyu student fails to disarm you (has happened to me more than once)---I guess you could instead just let go as well and hope it doesn't hit you or him in the head, but I prefer to hang onto it.
I was uke during part of a shodan test this past year, the part where nage takes uke's bokken during a variety of attacks (uke's choice) and nage's choice of technique. I didn't think much about it, since I'm comfortable doing rolls or breakfalls with a bokken, until I realized mid-technique he'd chosen koshinage at one point. Koshinage is my favorite technique to take ukemi in, but I'd never done it with a bokken before; I avoided wacking either of us, and it was fun once I realized I could do it :). He later said he hadn't thought about it either, it just happened. Guess it is important not to think too much.

[akiy]

Originally posted by Aikilove
Ken tai Jo is one example where there is alot of throwing variations (nage throws uke with the jo, and uke has to fall sometime only holding the ken in one hand).
Interestingly enough, we did just this -- ken tai jo -- during our weapons class this evening which involved having to fall and roll while holding onto the bokken. My partner wasn't very used to rolling with the bokken, but she was able to catch on just fine. Although she found she liked rolling with the bokken in her right hand while doing a forward roll on her right side, I preferred the bokken in my left hand during the same ukemi. So it goes, I guess.

-- Jun

[Aikilove]

Yes Akiy! Fun isn't it! :D