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dsmith
10-25-2005, 11:31 AM
I would like to know more about a technique called "Nodo Tsuki" or "Tsuki Nodo", but it's a throat push. It looks to be a very powerful technique if applied correctly, but I can't seem to find any information about the technique.

Any info would be greatly appreciated. :)

Thanks,
Don

jgros
10-25-2005, 02:06 PM
Hi Don,

I don't post much on forums since posting is pretty much a rehash of what was already said.

Buuut, since there are no responses to your query, I'll give it a shot.

Basically it works as follows. You have your forward intention going towards your partner as he comes to attack. It is my understanding that the attack can be most anything really, but I have only seen it for high attacks; such as punches to the face, grabs to the shoulders, shomenuchi, etc. With one hand you parry the attack and cover your face, with the other hand you keep your forward intent and extend your hand into his throat.

You will probably see this technique applied most often in randori. It is a very fast technique that is useful when one of your partners gets a little closer than is comfortable. The down side is that they drop right in front of you, and you now have a road hazard....and you have about 0.5-1.0 seconds before they start at it again.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

Lan Powers
10-25-2005, 03:30 PM
I wonder how much differance there is with this and the Agu-tsuki ?
We aim at the chin with the rising motion of agu-tsuki, but I have noticed that the clips of Seagal Sensei that I have seen show him applying it to the upper chest area on the way into the chin....same thing? Or is there a name for this "style" of tsuki.
You got me to wondering. :)
Lan

jgros
10-25-2005, 11:27 PM
Hmm, I've heard it named by that name before, but that doesn't mean they are the same. I'm afraid that I don't really know what the translational differences are. I will have to yield to the expertise of others on that.

However, my teacher was once a disciple of Steven Seagal. I would say by the basic principles of "monkey see, monkey do", the technique I described in my earlier post is probably very similar to what he is doing in that clip you mentioned.

The main idea here is that the technique is irimi. I don't think it matters where you atemi specifically as long as you have your partners center. However, like I suggested in the beginning of the post; as soon as you start varying where you strike, the name will probably change as well. :p

Perhaps some of the more senior students at this forum can enlighten us on the semantics of the names? *hint, hint*

Jeff

xuzen
10-26-2005, 03:33 AM
I would like to know more about a technique called "Nodo Tsuki" or "Tsuki Nodo", but it's a throat push. It looks to be a very powerful technique if applied correctly, but I can't seem to find any information about the technique.

Any info would be greatly appreciated. :)

Thanks,
Don

Never heard of Nodo tsuki. However in my practice we have spoken of irimi tsuki aimed at the throat. I have seen Shioda Kancho did that in his vintage video.

Another throat technique I am aware off is called Nodowa performed by sumo-tori. It is basically a frontal charge where both hands are aimed at the opponent's throat to push/slap him out of the competition ring.

Boon.

Dazzler
10-26-2005, 04:10 AM
Sounds like a finger spear strike to jugular notch...or maybe an adaptation of an arc hand strike to trachea .

Applied with control these could create a push effect but to me this seems illogical.

Usually the finger spear is used to distract an opponent - perhaps when gripping both shoulders and pulling one in for a headbutt - then followed up with a chosen combination or takedown.

Arc hand is an out an out strike.

I'd see a push as simply an action to create distance, or to shock an overly aggressive verbal attacked who is closing the distance prior to escalating a confrontation.

If you can reach the throat to push I guess it would make a bigger impression that a shove to the chest.

Putting a weapons head on...maybe this is simply the name for the jo tsuki targetted at the throat?

Cheers

D

Aikilove
10-26-2005, 04:57 AM
Yes, Nodo tsuki and nodowa (sumo) are basically the same thing. No, it's not a finger spear strike.

One start with the palm toward/on the chest (to be sure contact is made) and slide up towards the throat and finally the chin. The more secure one gets the more one can go straight to the throat/chin push/punch.

Dazzler
10-26-2005, 05:37 AM
Yes, Nodo tsuki and nodowa (sumo) are basically the same thing. No, it's not a finger spear strike.

One start with the palm toward/on the chest (to be sure contact is made) and slide up towards the throat and finally the chin. The more secure one gets the more one can go straight to the throat/chin push/punch.
Thanks - I stand educated. :D

Can you add some context as to how you see it employed - further to just sliding up the chest.

Tenchi Nage perhaps?

Cheers

D

akiy
10-26-2005, 08:29 AM
Depending on the side of the body that nage/tori is on in relation to uke, the technique could be considered a variation to shomen ate (http://www.shodokan.ch/fr/17hon_01.html) or ai gamae ate (http://www.shodokan.ch/fr/17hon_02.html).

-- Jun

Zato Ichi
10-26-2005, 08:47 AM
Depending on the side of the body that nage/tori is on in relation to uke, the technique could be considered a variation to shomen ate (http://www.shodokan.ch/fr/17hon_01.html) or ai gamae ate (http://www.shodokan.ch/fr/17hon_02.html).
This reminds me of a grading I saw a couple years ago. The syllabus for sankyu calls for the tester to do timed shomenate and aigamaeate waza agaist a moving uke. As far as the waza are concerned, the actual atemi is supposed to be performed to the chin (as is shown in the animated GIFs provided my Jun). There was one guy who kept catching uke in the throat over and over... it could have been because of the height differential (uke was taller than tori) but because he kept doing it, it had to be intentional. Uke kept getting up slower and slower.

I saw Nariyama Shihan (and a few of the other examiners) trying not to laugh....

justinc
10-26-2005, 11:43 PM
Thanks - I stand educated. :D

Can you add some context as to how you see it employed - further to just sliding up the chest.


The way we do it is to slide up the chest. However, we also don't just do a straight strike with it either. The first action is usually a down and into the chest and as uke reacts to that, take the pressure off and push backwards. When you get it right, you can really make someone fly with it. I've seen one guy in class thrown clear across the matt with it - about 20-odd feet. It's one of my favourite techniqes as most people don't expect it to work so well. There's a lot of Tai Chi in it's basic action.

One way of getting into a position to use it is as a reversal from a choke. Any of the bearhug-style chokes work (Ie forearm around neck and on the side or behind). As the choke is coming in, turn in with the arm and disappear under the armpit, taking the choking arm with you into a sankyo. As you're ducking back, either reverse the sankyo so that the hand is above the shoulder and pushing down, or keep it low. If you're much shorter or lower than the attacker, the reversal is usually the way to go. As you then turn into the front of the attacker apply the arc-hand to the chest and go from there.

The other variation I've seen is to start with the arc hand to the chest. As the hand moves up the chest, instead of going for the throat, open the palm of the hand upwards and apply it to the chin, moving forwards and upwards on the chin. Most of the time I've seen this used from a yokomen strike (step inside and throw the person backwards).

Steve Mullen
10-27-2005, 10:01 AM
We call this irimi tsuki (or irim-tsuki for short). The way we enter this depends on the attack, but usually we guide the attack and draw uki in a circle around us (much the same as one would do for kote-giashi) and then strike to the throat while moving 'through' uki. Its a very powerful technique when done well so practice carefully folks. Once during practicing with a fellow high grade we decided to go all out in both attack and technique for a few minutes (to get the blood pumping) we found that once you have made contact with uki's throat you can drop the elbow into their chest taking the wind out of them and dropping them pretty much at your feet allowing you to pin.

Nick Simpson
10-28-2005, 10:10 AM
He means me. I whooped his ass.

Steve Mullen
10-31-2005, 09:53 AM
i let him win so he didn't cry

Nick Simpson
11-01-2005, 03:41 AM
Mean. Just mean.