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Tubig
09-23-2005, 11:00 PM
A common question in most martials dojo

What would one do if there is a round house kick about to hit one's head with full intention and force?

There are lot of factors that can affect this situation. The element of suprise for example, also the speed of the kick, the base wieght and balance of the kicker, is Tori standing up (which means a high RH Kick) or is Tori sitting down or knealing (which mean a midrange RH kick). This can even be extended to which direction is RH kick eg left or right.Is the front of the face or the back of the head that will get hit?

We would like to hear your scenarios, katas, experience, and good insights on how to deal with a Round House Kick about to hit your head.

An example is the classic kata: Given a high telegraphic RH Kick: blend with direction of the RH kick and enter doing Shomen ate, under the chin kokyu extention bang!!! :crazy:

A variation of this kata is instead of shomen ate, an atemi to the solar plexus. Watch for the incoming head because of the reaction by tilting your head which can also act like spear tski to the face.

another variation is ushiro nage entry blend, hook the shoulder or the head (if grabbed- kuminage) and lastly Kokyu nage.


Any suggestions?

Mike Fugate
09-23-2005, 11:27 PM
A roundhouse kick whether it be high or low isnt hard to defend against. Just step towards the attacker. When they are begining to kick, step in and then their foot wont hit you like a speeding hammer, but their thigh will make contact, causing a reduction in over all speed. Once you step in its fair game, do what ever cuase if your practice it enough, you can really mess them up. Most people doing this kick wont be able to keep their balance if you come in on them while executing this kick. :ki:

Devon Natario
09-24-2005, 12:33 AM
Everyone can say what they can or can not do.

I've seen K-1 fight wins with just a round house kick to the thigh over and over and over again.

I have seen people catch the kick and push the kicker to the ground.

I have seen people back up to make the opponent miss.

I have seen people enter and throw.

There are what ifs all over the place.

Seriously, I prefer catching the kick and taking the person to the ground where "I" fight.

But fighting someone that kicks, you never really know which kick or where he's going to kick, so good luck.

xuzen
09-24-2005, 01:05 AM
A common question in most Martial dojo What would one do if there is a round house kick about to hit one's head with full intention and force?

MOVE! That is the first lesson we teach our newbie... Be it Tenkan or Irimi, just move away from its trajectory.

It doesn't matter how hard your punches are, or how fast your kicks are, it is of no use if is does not connect - from some anime character in Rurouni Kenshin series.

Boon.

Nick Simpson
09-24-2005, 05:52 AM
Duck?

Devin McDowell
09-24-2005, 06:30 AM
Irimi, followed by robuse to his leg?

SeiserL
09-24-2005, 09:29 AM
IMHO, if you wouldn't punch some one in the foot then don't kick them in the head.

Blend, enter inside their circle of power, take their balance.

Oh yea, the best way to kick to the head is to wait until they are on the ground.

Nick Simpson
09-24-2005, 10:34 AM
'Oh yea, the best way to kick to the head is to wait until they are on the ground.'

Amen.

malsmith
09-24-2005, 06:56 PM
i think this is from a kempo point of veiw, but i would try to duck and kick or strike them in the crotch, i am always told to go where they are open, and if they are doing a kick to the head, then their lower area is wide open.

Ketsan
09-24-2005, 08:37 PM
Aiki point of view? Sugi/irime ashi into it. I mean really a high RH is more of a training thing than an actual combat technique because it leaves it's user very open to counter attack. During the execution of the kick you're not exactly in a brilliant position balance wise with any kick and a high RH is about as bad as it gets.
Anything which connects during the excution is almost certainly going to dump them on their behind.
Which is why you should punch them in the face before kicking them in the head. :D

seank
09-24-2005, 09:21 PM
This is very much a question relating to style. I disagree with the assertion that a mawashi-geri is an inherently unstable position. Chaining kicks, punches, knee strikes and elbows together can actually allow you to attack from a very stable position, with the added advantage that your opponent has to back off.

You also have to remember that a skilled martial artist won't rely on just one kick or one punch, if the first misses you really need to watch for the return attack. I'm a big fan of following a round house kick with an elbow or hammer-fist; if/when the kick misses, your opponent is in a very vulnerable position for a close in strike as you continue to pivot.

Another point to consider is whether your opponent takes the approach of many people where the probe by kicking and punching multiple times, or whether they are the kind of person to more or less sit back and wait for an opening, striking quickly and powerfully to maximum effect. It is my experience that the more seasoned martial artist tends to rely on the latter.

Kenneth Baņares
09-24-2005, 10:54 PM
Bruce Lee frowned upon kicking attacks above the knee Why?because it leaves the attacker really susceptible to counter strikes because of balance issues.

I say move in with a flying knee to the stomach or groin. or blend with it and attack the other leg .Make sure you have your hands on the side of of your head just in case and you can start from there.

Don_Modesto
09-25-2005, 08:32 AM
Duck?

I think it was Asai who ducked through front kicks in Nakayama's Best Kararte Kumite series. He suggested practicing by ducking lunge punches with a prepratory down block going in.

I never tried it against a front kick, but ducking has worked great for me on the RH. The kicker is really--REALLY--surprised when you do it. I've never pulled out their supporting leg on my way through, but it would seem the natural thing to do although it would probably injure someone on the hard wood floors we trained on then.

Amir Krause
09-25-2005, 10:12 AM
Everyone can say what they can or can not do.

I've seen K-1 fight wins with just a round house kick to the thigh over and over and over again.

I have seen people catch the kick and push the kicker to the ground.

I have seen people back up to make the opponent miss.

I have seen people enter and throw.

There are what ifs all over the place.

Seriously, I prefer catching the kick and taking the person to the ground where "I" fight.

But fighting someone that kicks, you never really know which kick or where he's going to kick, so good luck.

I agree, There are many solutions to this situation, mostly depending on ones timing and knowledge. Obviously, one can also fail in the execution and get the kick straight on.


MOVE! That is the first lesson we teach our newbie

Movement and Tai-sabaki are the basis for all M.A. Aikido not excluded. The better one is, the smaller the move he needs to avoid being hit and achieve a successful technique.

Amir

aikigirl10
09-25-2005, 04:30 PM
A roundhouse kick whether it be high or low isnt hard to defend against. Just step towards the attacker. When they are begining to kick, step in and then their foot wont hit you like a speeding hammer, but their thigh will make contact, causing a reduction in over all speed. Once you step in its fair game, do what ever cuase if your practice it enough, you can really mess them up. Most people doing this kick wont be able to keep their balance if you come in on them while executing this kick. :ki:

I have quite a bit of experience with this from sparring competitions and stuff in shaolin. This approach will work. But this isnt the only effective way to defend against it of course.

Another possibility is to step back and let the kick happen and then move in. This will put you behind the attacker which opens up all kinds different counter attacks.

Another way is to catch the kick (depending on the height and speed) If its someone who is new or not that good at sparring , then they will freeze up and they wont know what to do... but i would not recommend trying this with someone experienced, because in most cases they would know how to defend against it immediately.

Upyu
09-25-2005, 05:54 PM
One thing I'd like to mention,

what you're going to do will also depend largely on how the round house is being thrown. If it's a "load from the hip" that you often seen thrown in Kyokushin, or a chamber from the knee, then stepping forward etc will work just fine.
Not to mention that any kind of the afore mentioned kicks will leave you in a precarious position if you're caught in the middle of it (like someone previously noted)
You'll want to be careful if its a person that throws it orthodox thai style. Simply "catching" or "crowding" might not be so simple since they keep their "axis"/spine relateively straight and don't break that alignment as much compared to the methedologies I mentioned earlier. This allows them to keep their balance even after the kick is "caught", or if they're crowded, which could end up in the would be "counterer" eating an elbow in the face ;)
Really the only way to find out is experiement though.
Think less about technique, and adherence to principal :)

Hint:
From my experience, maintaining the bodies aligment,or dynamic balance, "kokyu chikara" whatever you want to call it, and maintaining at all points through whatever technique you choose is the critical factor you'll want to focus on.

seank
09-25-2005, 06:35 PM
a "load from the hip" that you often seen thrown in Kyokushin

Hi Robert,
Very good point on the variations of technique, however I do think that loading from the hip is only evident in some of the Kyokushin-kai.

We practice several different ways of performing mawashi-geri, and only one really loaded from the hip. The other variations have very muay-thai style feel; this is why I mentioned in an earlier post that elbow and hammer-fist strikes were very effective follow-ons from someone stepping into the technique. Ours is a variation of Kyokushin though so it may be a little different than the mainstream.

A caveat for anyone wanting to try stepping in- make sure your timing is right. A full power roundhouse kick is going to break fingers or your arm if you try to grab the leg at the wrong time or distance (not to mention that grabbing almost always ends a technique as you have a static hold when you grab). Blending or stepping away from the technique might be a better solution, allowing you to enter ura on your uke...

Tubig
09-25-2005, 07:58 PM
I noticed that some people said that a high RH kick is not a good idea, you may be right but I have seen it happened in the streets and in the ring alot of times, it is very possible, and very probable.

Thank you for the response, so far very helpful.

Now let's change the variable Tori is sitting down; hence chudan RH kick happens. Given that the RH kick is still telegraphic (ie not a suprise one). This time seiza or normal sitting down scenario eg in a bus, a bar, a cafe, in a train , etc

The variable changes, we cannot just move because we don't have the same abilities in our legs ready to spring and move as if standing. Sitting down is very hip oriented almost exclusively hip oriented.

To start, my suggestion is the old kata:
Enter- block the knee/inner thigh area of the incoming leg that is doing the RH kick- with the free tegatana atemi to the nuts :drool:

Kevin Leavitt
09-26-2005, 10:10 AM
I don't do it much anymore cause I have seen the light as I gained experience, but I will say, they can and do have their place.

To defend, It is best to move in on the opponent (irimi) and blend with the kick and then off balance uke and take him down to the ground.

Blocking kicks or catching is not a good idea IMHO. Against someone who is a powerful kickboxer or muay thai guy...you can miss and/or get seriously hurt. Moving works best, it takes away the power and point of impact.

ChrisHein
09-26-2005, 12:05 PM
I would hit them on the head with my jo as they were throwing the kick (jo's have range, he so his kick won't land). I do Aikido not kick boxing...

xuzen
09-26-2005, 10:05 PM
I would hit them on the head with my jo as they were throwing the kick (jo's have range, he so his kick won't land). I do Aikido not kick boxing...

Jo? You mean the broom handle...
:D :D :D

Boon.

ChrisHein
09-27-2005, 07:16 PM
I prefer mops.......

Saji Jamakin
09-27-2005, 10:21 PM
Try a variation Hiki Otoshi. Step forward and to the right. Block with left hand slightly above the knee hook with the right hand on the thigh. Pull down as you are turning. This is a hard throw too the mat so uke be prepared.

ChrisHein
09-28-2005, 07:24 PM
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

mattholmes
09-28-2005, 07:40 PM
How about a side kick to the groin? You can lean back as you're doing it (removing your head), you can give the guy something else to think about (pain), and you can push him out of the way/to the ground with the kick.

aikigirl10
09-28-2005, 08:29 PM
How about a side kick to the groin? You can lean back as you're doing it (removing your head), you can give the guy something else to think about (pain), and you can push him out of the way/to the ground with the kick.

Thats good, but if by chance u miss, his foot will fly by your head , touch ground and then if hes smart he'll come right back up with a heel kick.

aikidojoe
09-30-2005, 11:01 AM
Saji,

That's a great move only if you can move in fast enough to avoid the extension of the kick. Otherwise you're going to have a broken hand/forearm, and a concussion.

Matching their rotation as you enter is all you realisticly have time for. Don't worry about catching or blocking it. Move past it, and raise and extend your hands (like hyshi undo) to keep their balance and weight back. From there, there are many throws and techniques (koshi, irimi, kaiten, kube shimi, uchi mata, if any of their hands or arms come up you have ikkyo through gokkyo, etc..), and you're in a much safer position.
If you stand there and stop or block them, they now are going to do something else, not to mention you've stopped all of their energy, something you should be using against them.

Just some more ramblings to think about....
;)

Joe

tgibbs@bu.edu
10-18-2005, 06:05 PM
A common question in most martials dojo

What would one do if there is a round house kick about to hit one's head with full intention and force?

Most techniques taught against yokomenuchi will work on a roundhouse kick, although the outcome may be weird and often dangerous for uke. Moving in and in the direction of the kick's momentum is usually good.

Here's one move: Let's say that you are in a left stance and uke is delivering a right roundhouse. Step with your right foot forward and a bit to your right toward uke and in the direction of the kick's momentum. Tenkan, bringing up both hands. Left should protect your head. Don't think block, because if you do you will tend to draw the arm back back first and you don't have time. Just get the hand up. If you move correctly, the impact should not be hard. The right hand should come up behind uke's leg (since you've moved in, this should be closer to the knee than the foot) and trap it. Just hang on with relaxed arms and start backing up in a small circle, as if you are trying to back your butt into uke, leaning back slightly to put some tension on uke's leg (i.e. pull with your body, not your arms). Be very careful with this technique as the fall is likely to be awkward and potentially dangerous for uke.

seph
10-19-2005, 09:46 AM
how would a sort of shoman-ate work but u stepped under there leg and lifted it on your shoulder? :D

Ron Tisdale
10-19-2005, 10:59 AM
And be real carefull about answering this question on the mat with newbies...almost broke one saturday. :(

Best,
Ron

tgibbs@bu.edu
10-19-2005, 03:26 PM
how would a sort of shoman-ate work but u stepped under there leg and lifted it on your shoulder? :D

Shomenate is a good move. In fact, if you catch somebody in the process of throwing a high roundhouse kick, you pretty much just need to bump into them anywhere to knock them over. If you catch a kick, you usually want to do something with the leg immediately--either throw it somewhere to off-balance them or even better throw them with the leg. Somebody who is agile enough to try to kick you in the head could draw back and deliver a second kick very fast with the same leg, or leap up in the air and try to kick you with the other foot or grab you and throw you with their legs.