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dan guthrie
08-07-2005, 12:48 PM
The local Buddhist temple had its Obon festival yesterday. Along with judo, karate ( which I missed ) and shin (sp?) kendo the local sensei demonstrated daito-ryu aiki jujutsu kodokai.

Good news: the dojo is within driving distance, a beginner's class is starting soon, there's a relationship with aikido and the sensei is one of "those guys." He teaches at the highest possible level. Learning from him would be a unique experience akin to learning in Japan.

Bad news: he won't teach anyone studying other martial arts, it's an extremely painful martial art, my wrists aren't what they used to be and I'm kinda old to be starting something this all encompassing.


Someone talk me out of this. If he'd let me continue with aikido there'd be no problem. I think I could handle the pain just to learn from a master and my age didn't keep me from starting aikido two years ago.

Roy
08-07-2005, 01:01 PM
I also found a local Aikijujutsu dojo to be way too hard on the joints.

DustinAcuff
08-07-2005, 01:37 PM
Don, gotta play the devil's advocate here. Go for it! Yeah, it can be painful, but so can BJJ, Boxing and any number of arts, it goes with the territory and you get used to it. If the instructor is good then you should not have anything pushed too far. Dedication seems to be a trade mark of the older samurai type schools; so what, you have to drop aikido for a while, you will learn the same stuff to a diffrent degree since the goal is a bit diffrent. You are never too old!!! Your body will adapt to whatever you throw at it and I'd dare say that you will actually feel better after 6 months than you do now.

Give it a try! Stay with it for six months or so and if you hate it then leave. It is a great opportunity, don't pass it up or you will tell stories for the rest of your life "I had an opportunity to train under a really great Daito Ryu sensei once but I was just too old..."

Go for it!

Dustin

Adam Alexander
08-07-2005, 02:22 PM
1)He teaches at the highest possible level.

2)Learning from him would be a unique experience akin to learning in Japan.

1)Yes, but how long does it take before a master (expert, what-have-you) needs to be your guide? How many basic techniques must you learn before his expertise will really make a difference for you?

That's why 1kyu and sho-dans can run classes...It takes a while before you can use the info of the master (atleast, that's my experience).

Stick with your stuff for know. After two years, do you feel like you've really learned the lessons that your current Sensei has to offer? Probably not, because you're just not ready to receive them yet.

So, if you go to the new person, you're starting over from zero...or atleast closer to zero than in your current style. You've got to cover new ground in the new style just to get to where you are now in your current. Sooo, you're this close to understanding your style...why start over?

2)Unique experiences are great. That's how you should approach your daily training...Every movement should be approached as a unique experience having something brand new to offer.

With that perspective, it doesn't matter where you train.

dan guthrie
08-07-2005, 02:25 PM
Don, gotta play the devil's advocate here. Go for it! Yeah, it can be painful, but so can BJJ, Boxing and any number of arts, it goes with the territory and you get used to it. If the instructor is good then you should not have anything pushed too far. Dedication seems to be a trade mark of the older samurai type schools; so what, you have to drop aikido for a while, you will learn the same stuff to a different degree since the goal is a bit different. You are never too old!!! Your body will adapt to whatever you throw at it and I'd dare say that you will actually feel better after 6 months than you do now.

Give it a try! Stay with it for six months or so and if you hate it then leave. It is a great opportunity, don't pass it up or you will tell stories for the rest of your life "I had an opportunity to train under a really great Daito Ryu sensei once but I was just too old..."

Go for it!

Dustin

Leaving aikido "for a while" might mean lying. I'll talk to one of his more experienced students tomorrow.

This is new territory for me.

I've talked to some former students - in aikido now - and they've ALL told me the pain never decreases. One aikido brown belt said "the experienced students look at new students as fresh meat."
They aren't sadists. There just isn't any other way to learn this.

At least the pain, if the technique is done correctly, stops soon after the technique is over. With other striking arts bruises and broken fingers last a lot longer.
It's just the idea of knowing that pain will be felt and inflicted. In the demo every technique was accompanied by uke constantly slapping feet and hand. Some ukes had to be "pried" open after cramping.

At the very least I'll ask if it's okay for me to come and just pay my respects.

dan guthrie
08-07-2005, 02:37 PM
1)Yes, but how long does it take before a master (expert, what-have-you) needs to be your guide? How many basic techniques must you learn before his expertise will really make a difference for you?

That's why 1kyu and sho-dans can run classes...It takes a while before you can use the info of the master (at least, that's my experience).

Stick with your stuff for know. After two years, do you feel like you've really learned the lessons that your current Sensei has to offer? Probably not, because you're just not ready to receive them yet.

2)Unique experiences are great. That's how you should approach your daily training...Every movement should be approached as a unique experience having something brand new to offer.

With that perspective, it doesn't matter where you train.



My dilemma in a nutshell. I haven't even begun to scratch aikido's dusty cover on top of it's shell.
The AJJ shihan is getting on in years and may retire soon.

I guess it's the difference between being a student of a student, uchi deshi or uke to Osensei. There are four or five people in the world at his level and the others never leave Japan.

There is all the difference in the world between the applications of aikido and AJJ.

Adam Alexander
08-07-2005, 02:49 PM
My dilemma in a nutshell. I haven't even begun to scratch aikido's dusty cover on top of it's shell.
The AJJ shihan is getting on in years and may retire soon.

I guess it's the difference between being a student of a student, uchi deshi or uke to Osensei. There are four or five people in the world at his level and the others never leave Japan.

There is all the difference in the world between the applications of aikido and AJJ.

If, after two years, you haven't begun to scratch it, then you haven't been training well. In two years of the other, you'll not of scratched the surface there either.

Charles Hill
08-07-2005, 03:45 PM
"the experienced students look at new students as fresh meat."

Hi Dan,

This would definitely make me choose not to train there. In my opinion, this kind of attitude produces weaker people, not stronger.

Charles Hill

Aristeia
08-07-2005, 04:07 PM
If, after two years, you haven't begun to scratch it, then you haven't been training well. In two years of the other, you'll not of scratched the surface there either.

Either that or he just has a realistic view of what he does know.

Aristeia
08-07-2005, 04:12 PM
Dan
Here's the real bad news - the decsion is yours, nothing that anybody writes here can change that. For instance, if it were me I probably wouldn't do it (admittedly I didn't see the demo). But the fresh meat comment, and the insistance on studying no other styles would ring alarm bells in my head. But you're not me. You've already got arguments for both sides. At the end of the day you'll end up listening to the ones that validate what you want to do, so it's back to you. The only comment I'd make is to say what are the ex students like? No doubt if you were to ask about them at the DR place you'll be told they just couldn't "hack"it - to they seem like that type to you when doing Aikido or reasonable people? If the former it doesn't matter what they say, if the latter it might pay to listen to their reasons for leaving.
The constant pain thing would make me very nervous. Yeah MA's involve pain but within limits. I've seen too many old timers who can barely move to want to abuse my joints unnecessarily.

dan guthrie
08-07-2005, 06:05 PM
Maybe I should wait until after I visit the AJJ dojo to comment further. Mike, you're correct, it is my decision. I've been using this forum as a sounding board, perhaps inappropriately. I've been using hearsay opinions and my ignorance is showing. I'll keep you posted.

Honestly, the idea of giving up aikido panicked me. It took me a while to recognize this. My apologies.

Aristeia
08-07-2005, 06:08 PM
No need to apologise and using the forum as a sounding board was a great idea. I fully sypmathise with how the idea of giving up aikido could engender panic :-)
Let us know how the class looks.

DustinAcuff
08-07-2005, 06:20 PM
On the pain -- yeah, it does hurt, and in alot of ways you will have some serious pain, but very little harm will actually be done. Yeah, it is possible that the ex-students have some legitimate points, it is also possible that they simply couldn't hack it. No disrespect to these individuals intened, I picked up MMA stuff for a while and didn't like it too much, I did not belong there and I knew it -- one could say that I couldn't hack it and if they did I would happily agree with them. It is not a martial art for everyone.

DR is one of the smaller (number of students) arts out there just because of the nature of the beast. As I have read on one site, it has over 3000 techniques! From what I understand at shodan I will have over 650 techniques. Traditionally weapons training was included, it is to a more minor extent in my school, but you may be expected to be proficient with more than 5 diffrent weapons. Plus the suwari waza is pretty indepth. It is a huge all inclusive system. Crosstraining in anything would probably slow you down.

In aikido you are supposed to gain an indepth understanding of balance and energy, aiki. In DR you gain that same understanding, but also combine it with a much enhanced understanding of human anatomy and physiology, of the anatomical lines involved in every technique.

Michael is right, it is really your decision. What are the circumstances? How often will you be able to train? Are you willing to learn it? I would put money on if you do learn it you will have a much more indepth understanding of aikido because you will have walked in O Sensei's footsteps.

Why would lying be involved????

Roy
08-07-2005, 07:27 PM
Myself, I could not afford to be hurt, or get sprained at a MA club! Loose work time, and then try to work with a bunk joint for the rest of my life! The reason I take MAs is for self preservation, or self defense. The chances of getting hurt in an abusive MA club, is far, far greater then being attacked on the street. Is it worth it? There are a few postings that claim you can't really get hurt at these places, well all I have to say to this is, "don't kid yourself."

DustinAcuff
08-07-2005, 09:04 PM
It is not that you cannot get hurt, it is that you should not. The worst I have had so far is a twisted ankle from a technique gone bad. If your partners are responsible then you should never be injured, in temporary pain or minor brusing are pretty normal, but I have never seen any injuries as a result of training where I am. The worst I have heard of was a broken nose during full force practice with the advanced guys.

dan guthrie
08-08-2005, 12:28 AM
Why would lying be involved????

I would be lying if I ever told anyone I want to give up aikido permanently. From what I've been told I'd have to make that kind of a commitment. In a perfect world I'd like to do both. The beginner's classes are on Thursdays. The general/advanced are Tuesdays (?) and Fridays. I think they're from 7 - 9 p.m.

Also, I don't think there's many injuries, at least no more than judo, for example.

Thanks to everyone for your input. I was cranky and upset all day without knowing why until I wrote my previous post.

DustinAcuff
08-08-2005, 01:19 AM
More likely is that they don't want you doing Daito and Aikido at the same time. Depending on your school your Aikido would actually make your Daito less effective and reinforce some bad habits. It is also a koryu, loyalty to the ryu is just part of the territory. Most of the people who stay with Daito feel that it is all they will ever need and training in other styles is unnecessary. Those who don't go and do other things.

I am about to move 250 miles south of where I am which unfortunately means giving up my full time Daito training so I am going to have to find some other arts to train in that will not mess with my progress too much so that I can continue to progress and rank. If I was not moving then I would not be looking into any other arts because I don't need to. But since I am then I'll find some other stuff to fill my time.

I'd venture that I feel the same about DR as you feel about Aikido, and that it upsets me as much to not be able to do DR fulltime anymore as you are about giving up Aikido for another art. This is the crux of the matter I suspect, not the pain or age involved. But it sounds like you really want to try it you just don't like the idea of giving up Aikido. So try it for a few months and leave if you ever hate it after you get over the initial shock.

Jorge Garcia
08-08-2005, 01:39 AM
Dan,
I've been doing Aikido for 10 years and Aikijujutsu for one year and I am an aikido person all the way. Having said that though, if I were you, I would go ahead and study the Aikijujutsu Kodokai because that is hard to come by and it is an amazing art. Aikido is everywhere and will always be there but the Kodokai won't always be around. The higher level stuff is actually quite soft and won't be painful except for some lower back stuff until you adjust to the kinds of throws they do. I am 48 myself and haven't found the ukemi to be harder than aikido.
Best wishes,

ian
08-08-2005, 03:49 AM
Personally, I would go for it as well. You aren't going to get younger, so give it a go for a while and see what you can pick up. I think the opportunity will be all the better if you can make a good comparison with the aikido you presently do. If/when you go back to aikido you may have a much deeper insight. However, if you feel you are being damaged by it and are therefore unable to train properly, reconsider!

ruthmc
08-08-2005, 04:42 AM
Perhaps you should arrange to have an informal chat with the DR teacher before the beginner's classes start? You can then ask him all the questions you have asked here, and get his take on it. You don't have to commit to anything at that time - either leaving Aikido or starting these new classes - you are allowed to have as much thinking time as you need!

Once you have all the facts, it will be easy to make a decision.

All the best,

Ruth

Michael Hackett
08-08-2005, 12:50 PM
Another thought......you might consider attending a DR seminar before making your decision. At the last Aiki Expo I got the opportunity to get on the mat with Kondo Sensei and his students. I found it really interesting and very challenging. I also learned that Aikido is the art for me and wouldn't choose to train in DR unless there were no Aikido available. That is just a matter of personal taste; I don't like red cars and won't eat liver.

Keith Larman
08-08-2005, 10:40 PM
Just a quick comment. There are *lots* of guys who claim to teach Daito Ryu who are not really affiliated, trained, or frankly know their own butts from a shihonage... Daito Ryu is an art that is alive and well today but in reality fairly hard to find in any sort of authentic fashion. But there are lots of crackpots who claim to be teaching it who are more interested in getting students due to the name and reputation of Daito Ryu.

Not saying yours isn't legit, just get references and ask the important questions before you start.

E-Budo (http://www.e-budo.com) has a forum devoted to aikijujutsu where some rather hard core fellas hang out. Some there are also *real* sticklers about lineage, validity, all that stuff. Ask there.

Keith Larman
08-08-2005, 10:43 PM
Oh, and I forgot about the original question. I've practiced a few times with some guys doing daito ryu. I rather enjoy it and would pursue it more myself if I had the time. I see it as somewhat looking at the "dark side" of our own art. And yes, it hurts. Those pressure points in the wrist and elbow seem to be used in every bloody freaking art. They don't give you *any* wiggle room. Once the technique starts, you're gone. No holes, no openings. But also very aiki at the same time. No question about effectiveness here. And be prepared to end every technique with a killing blow...

Different side of the tracks so to speak... ;)

dan guthrie
08-08-2005, 11:26 PM
Keith, this guy is legit. I've checked and several of my aikido sempai have confirmed this.

I talked to a student today who's been training for 15 years. His wife took "model mugging" from my dojo cho. He's going to put me on the list for the beginners class. I'll take a few classes - maybe a month - before deciding if I'm going long term. My plan is to keep going to aikido weapons classes, if possible. I'll weigh my feelings every class but I plan on returning to aikido.

I will continue posting here but probably won't discuss daito-ryu.

To Mike Fooks: Sensei doesn't forbid students from taking other classes, he just frowns on it because most people can't separate training very well. There are several people who take other classes but they're all high level students.

Jorge, the student I talked with also said the beginning is painful but the higher level is very soft.

To Charles Hill: the "fresh meat" comment was hearsay. I shouldn't have mentioned it and I regret it.

Aristeia
08-08-2005, 11:32 PM
well you know what they say, it's seldom the things you do that you regret so much as the things you don't do.

DustinAcuff
08-09-2005, 12:31 AM
I see it as somewhat looking at the "dark side" of our own art. And yes, it hurts. Those pressure points in the wrist and elbow seem to be used in every bloody freaking art. They don't give you *any* wiggle room. Once the technique starts, you're gone. No holes, no openings. But also very aiki at the same time. No question about effectiveness here.

Thank you Keith! Nobody seems to believe that aiki techniques can be effective! Or that you can hit pressure points in motion!

Amen!

Roy
08-09-2005, 03:19 PM
Dustin,

"Nobody seems to believe that aiki techniques can be effective! Or that you can hit pressure points in motion!"

Don't you think that this statement is somewhat exaggerated/ignorant?

Lets give Aikido, and Aikijujitsu some credit.

dan guthrie
09-03-2005, 01:10 PM
Keith, this guy is legit. I've checked and several of my aikido sempai have confirmed this.

I talked to a student today who's been training for 15 years. His wife took "model mugging" from my dojo cho. He's going to put me on the list for the beginners class. I'll take a few classes - maybe a month - before deciding if I'm going long term. My plan is to keep going to aikido weapons classes, if possible. I'll weigh my feelings every class but I plan on returning to aikido.

I will continue posting here but probably won't discuss daito-ryu.

To Mike Fooks: Sensei doesn't forbid students from taking other classes, he just frowns on it because most people can't separate training very well. There are several people who take other classes but they're all high level students.

Jorge, the student I talked with also said the beginning is painful but the higher level is very soft.

To Charles Hill: the "fresh meat" comment was hearsay. I shouldn't have mentioned it and I regret it.


I took my first Daito-ryu class Thursday and I had a very nice time. If classes are available near you I'd recommend a visit.

This just proves, once again, I shouldn't have commented before my first class. I wish I could "unring" that bell.

In a nutshell, ignore my previous posts and come to a class to judge for yourself. The worst part of class was finding the dojo. It's really out in the boondocks but they have brand new mats!! Which makes up for just about anything, IMHO.

Mark Uttech
09-03-2005, 06:00 PM
Dan, to me you sound like someone who is just looking to get support because of some doubts about a decision you have already made. Maybe it will help for you to try the daitoryu and the pain, but I seem to understand only this: that every student has a tendency to look for some type of edge, or shortcut. Good luck. In gassho

Tajar Hoxha
09-05-2005, 06:57 AM
For Mr. Dan Guthrie

You have a very good chance to learn something new and is rare this style.Everything will pass after maybe a month of training but what you trained in Aikido will help you to achieve the goal.Forget the begining and don't let this change fly from you.If I were you I will work more and more.They wil not and they can't harm you.
with luck Tajar(tony)Hoxha

Jiawei
09-05-2005, 07:29 AM
Just to sidetrack a litle bit : There were a few clips on Aikido Journal that displayed a guy performing Daito Ryu . You go check it out. Its superb!! It's like he's on the ground all flat and they are pinning him down but he manages to shake em off. I don't have terminology so excuse me for that description.

Brandon Shatley
09-09-2005, 07:44 AM
Have you made any friends in the Aikido class in the past 2 years? For me, that would be the most important point to consider. A close second would be the quality of your Aikido teacher. If neither of these give you enough reason to stay, then go to the DR and don't look back. In the long run, differences in techniques are less important than experiencing the class.

dan guthrie
09-09-2005, 09:53 PM
Have you made any friends in the Aikido class in the past 2 years? For me, that would be the most important point to consider. A close second would be the quality of your Aikido teacher. If neither of these give you enough reason to stay, then go to the DR and don't look back. In the long run, differences in techniques are less important than experiencing the class.


I'm still training in Aikido. I think my dojo is wonderful and I have every intention of staying there. My teacher and sempai are likewise wonderful and I consider them all my very close friends.

My Daito-Ryu experience is also completely positive.

I don't see why I can't do both. Right now I just have to keep them separate and not do mediocre Daito-Ryu along with my mediocre Aikido ;) .

I wasn't seeking permission for this new direction, only information. I'm not looking for shortcuts.

It's just my very ill-informed opinion but it seems that Daito-Ryu and Aikido are two different paths to the same destination. They are definitely two distinct paths, however.


Jiawei: I've seen/experienced some of that "explosive" ki. It's too bad that, like Aikido, it takes years to reach that level.


Famous expression: if it was easy they'd hand out black belts when you walked in the door.

Dennis Wright
10-06-2005, 01:20 PM
Mr. Guthrie,

I trained at that dojo some years ago while attending the college I took the judo class, taught by the same Sensei. I really enjoyed my experience in Judo and by survey of the jujutsu class. I have prior background in other martial arts, other dojos and other senseis, and I don't say it lightly that he is the exemplar of a true to life sensei. He is an authentic model of or an ideal Japanese sensei, true to the word as a person and sensei.

From what I had experienced in my survey of his jujutsu class was very traditional and challenging, not a cup of tea for those who want a casual martial arts experience. He uses traditional teaching methods and philosophies you read about. Methodologies, I later came to appreciate more. What comes to my mind are the emphasis on right-mind training, hard work, lots of repetition/refinement, and challenges. Lot of people say martial arts builds character, at this dojo they do.

In both classes, he doesn't give you it, he doesn't lay it out, you have to work for it, earn it, then be good at it. That really kills the boredom of your average martial arts class, and it kept my interest. Making each class worth every minute. Of course, it wasn't for everyone, Mcdojo is a term that doesn't apply, nor was it a social event like may other dojos that sit around and B.S. more then train.

I learned allot, I don't think it matters if Aikido is your first love, or this opinion or that matters when it comes to Aikido vs. Daito. See, when I was there one of the Daito blacks belts told me most of the students with [yudansha] rank had various martial arts backgrounds and ranks in other arts, he said it was a "martial artist's, art." There was a handful of Judoka's like me, had experienced Daito.

I don't want you to think this class is for everyone, it isn't. If you want to experience authentic Japanese martial arts without going to Japan this class is it. I was even told, Sensei is held in high regard by many Japanese sensei's and Japanese in Japan, as being and keeping the authentic traditional martial arts alive.

Take this for what it is worth, but I have never found anyone like him or the class. To my shi-grin, I had to move on. But, if I had my druthers this would have been the dojo where I would have stayed.

Good luck, and training!

bogglefreak20
10-06-2005, 03:00 PM
If, after two years, you haven't begun to scratch it, then you haven't been training well. In two years of the other, you'll not of scratched the surface there either.

Either that or he just has a realistic view of what he does know.

Precisely.


Dan
For instance, if it were me I probably wouldn't do it (admittedly I didn't see the demo). But the fresh meat comment, and the insistance on studying no other styles would ring alarm bells in my head.

The constant pain thing would make me very nervous. Yeah MA's involve pain but within limits. I've seen too many old timers who can barely move to want to abuse my joints unnecessarily.

I agree completely. I fail to believe that busted joints are a necessary sacrifice in training martial arts.

Dennis Wright
10-07-2005, 01:15 PM
As a person who trained there at that dojo, I would like to give insight on the "Fresh meat" comment, and suffering injuries. I don't want to debate this, I am just giving my first hand experience of being there and being "Fresh meat."

When I was there, the jujutsu class was practicing at the University, and Judo was taught at the judo club where I now believe both classes are taught. The jujutsu class had a lots of students I would say at least 20-30 students a night. I was one of them. It was the start of a new quarter and students had seen a previous demo at the University, so the joined the class. Most didn't stay after a few weeks due to the constraints of time and studies. I believe the class every so many quarters or so the class would swell in new college students signing up to train. It is my firm belief, as I too being a young college student of 20 something, and being guilty of it myself verbally teasing my fellow University students with being "Fresh meat." Whether at a college job, or on campus, I and others used that term for anyone new. It was synonymous with the word "Freshman."

Let me firmly state and put people's minds to rest, from my experience, the term isnot an indication of physical hazing where people leave the dojo bloodied, and abused such as it might be on High school or college football teams; where such things are worse in this respect. The term was given by college students to other college students, and it came from the campus culture. It was not a term initiated by the dojo, nor its Sensei. It is a benign term; an identifier likened to newbie. Because of my experience there at the dojo, it is nothing more than that. Nothing to be alarmed about nor an indicator of the Sensei or the dojo.


The atmosphere in the dojo is hard working, safe, and serious place to train. It is a no nonsense dojo where the training is intensely taken seriously, and you are there to get the most of our your time, rather then waste your training time in building a tower of Babel, and incompetency. I learn alto there, more then any other place I trained. And sure people get hurt, not often. From what I know it was newbies learning on newbies. You get hurt more being a kid then in training, that is because people at the dojo take what they do seriously. Judo is tough on the joints and I got hurt more in Judo. The Sensei would always caution us if we got to zealous in training and where not cautious. He would say, along these lines, be careful, people have to go to work in the morning.

This is my experience and as I said it isn't for everyone. I hope this gives insight to the matter.

Dennis Wright
10-07-2005, 02:14 PM
I want to expand a bit more on injuries at this dojo. I just skimmed over an important issue. Litigation is a household occupation in California, for those of you who don't know it. Any dojo that suffers a high amount of injuries would suffer equally many law suits, and would not exist. I will go out on a limb and say even one injury can find a dojo facing a hefty win-less law suit. Business in California, especially small business, fear litigation as California is known for siding with plaintiffs, thus awarding them big money. Business are very careful in California, they can be sued for things like having a customer stab themselves with a fork during a meal at the restaurant, thus suing the restaurant and winning. By taking in an account the threat of litigation over a stubbed toe in a dojo is very realistic and gives cause for dojo's being safe-we all know waivers are as good toilet paper. Otherwise if the dojo was full of injury, it would no longer exist due to law suits against it. Dojo's have to be careful and employ safety in this age of litigation.

As I said before, I think, my wrists hurt too for a week. The reason being was due to working with newbies.The result was soreness, and no muscle, ligament or tendon tears. The soreness ( more likened to a rub burn, and my wrists not being use to being grabbed hard ) eventually went away as my wrists strengthened, and I worked with other ranks. What was the most painful part of my experience was my zeal for seiza. The legs falling asleep drove me nuts, some of those guys could sit for a long time and just get up and way away. I struggled with it, and was told I could sit crossed legged until I practiced my seiza enough to allow for me to sit comfortably.

The intensity of training is pointing to the discipline in the class, much like a serious sport like gymnastics. You where there to train, and give it 100% all for your benefit. You didn't come to the dojo to play, you came to work and put your best effort into it. Those students who where not serious about it, they didn't stay long; most because they had to work. Honestly, the rest of the students who where there to work hard little tolerance (politely) for those wasting their time. I don't think this is a rare thing. You find it in any vocation, hobby, or sport that takes its self serious and has something to offer. I am the same way, I don't want people wasting my time. I don't tolerate those who waste my time when I am training or on the job. I want to train with the best, and be the best, and not with the rest. In my experience, the dojo isn't for everyone. I know they are not a Mcdojo. I know they have something real and genuine to offer and I wouldn't expect them to any thing less then serious about what they do. It's a matter of respect.

It is my personal opinion and common advice to not make quick and judgments based on limited information. Like anything you have to give it an honest and sincere test, and conclude for yourself.