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I had an awesome high ranking member at my former Aikido dojo, he loved to incorporate judo with Aikido. But we mostly had members that simply did as they are directed, and followed the routine. As I looked into his style the term Aikijujutsu came up, so I checked it out. To my surprise I learned that Aikijujutsu was the parent martial art to Judo and Aikido. In fact Ueshiba himself was trained in Aikijujutsu. when I showed an interest in Aikijujutsu at the Aikido dojo, I was instantly unpopular!?!? So, I said adios-amigos and joined the local Aikijujutsu club. Well, I learned how to defend myself more in a month them in two years than at that Aikido dojo!! Although, I benefited greatly from the fundamental skills learned at the Aikido dojo. The Aikijujutsu club taught techniques against all forms of attack, and did not almost exclusively focus on wrist grabs like my previous Aikido dojo. Although I have to admit the Aikijujutsu classes were way more rough and there was a far greater possibility of getting injured compared to my old Aikido dojo. In fact injuries were very common there!! The atmosphere at the Aikijujutsu club was clearly missing that traditional, courteous formal Japanese aura that was very rich at the Aikido dojo. And that lack of aura was at times somewhat disturbing. In fact my first day of Aikijujutsu resulted in a torn fingernail. I am by no means fragile, for I'm 6 foot 3 inches, 330 pounds, but man I went through allot of pain there. Then the inevitable happened, I was injured, not permanently but enough to be off work for awhile. And this was the point I realized that if I get permanently injured, I would loose my job!!! So, now I'm reconsidering Aikido and in particular the dojo I formally went to. Except this time I will creatively look for the hidden more effective self defense techniques, while practicing them diligently with that respectful manner and aura I have come to love.
06-14-2005, 08:37 PM
Just a quick couple of points (in a nutshell).
Jujutsu is the root art of both Judo and Aikido. Daito-ryu Jujutsu became Datito-ryu Aikijujutsu during the time Ueshiba M. studied it and then he broke off from his teacher and we ended up with Aikido.
A lot of Aikijutusu you see in Canada is sort of of combination of Judo and Aikido after the fact.
That said I really do understand where you are coming from.
Finding an art form which balances all your needs and requirements is really tough and I would not really worry too much about a name. Take the time and do some research - try a number of groups out. Your main advantage is you have enough experience to know what you are looking for.
A good dojo leaves room for self exploration - with a little thought the self defense application of what you deal with in your old group should be obvious.
06-14-2005, 09:40 PM
"When you practice a technique and your partner smiles, it is modern Aikido. If he screams, it is Daito ryu."
I would suggest that your 2 years of basic aikido gave you sufficient grounding to handle aikijujtsu. Aikido is a tool. Aikijujitsu is also a tool. Each has it's function and utility.
Having said that, injuries are a bitch, especially when it threatens your means of livelihood. Now apply it to your training partner and their means of livelihood. ;)
06-14-2005, 10:11 PM
Congratulations Roy! You are now on the dark side of Aikido. Yep, Daito Ryu (Most recent name) is where Aikido came from (along with a number of other great MAs). Aiki Ju Jitsu may/may not refer to the specific linage of Daito Ryu though, some information I have found says that there are/were a number of styles with aiki jujitsu in the name. Not sure about Judo being a part of the DR line though. I know that (according to one web site for Saigo Ha something or other) Kano used a Daito practitioner to endorse Judo at the begining. What system/lineage are you learning?
As far as I know injuries should NOT be common. They prevent training. What is your Shihan's rank? Why are injuries common? After 9 mo. of DR I have only had 1 injury other than mild soreness, and that was from an accident rather than a technique.
Glad you are enjoying Aiki Jujitsu, have fun, and don't get hurt no more!
06-14-2005, 11:05 PM
training in aikido is about learning to have a lifelong practice. The practice becomes nothing other than your life.
06-15-2005, 10:03 AM
Sounds like you should find a different Aikido Dojo.
As far as I have seen, most Aiki-Jutsu places are simply a variation on Aikido, Judo & Karate by slightly inspired teacher at best. Too often, the teacher was not very good at any single one of those arts so he combined his knowledge to a new form.
A place like those above can often be replaced with a good Aikido Dojo in which Sensei and students are aware of S.D. issues and are slightly more open minded. A good teacher of the last type, who understands Aikido in depth, would be able of showing you how to convert each technique for any situation, as well as the more deadly and dangerous variations of the techniques.
(OK, maybe I am getting carried away in assuming one can find a teacher like my own everywhere)
06-15-2005, 10:13 AM
"When you practice a technique and your partner smiles, it is modern Aikido. If he screams, it is Daito ryu."
I highly suggest that the above be taken with many large grains of salt. Research should be done before propagating such drivel. E-budo, Aikido Journal, Bugei.com, RMA all have some information which should be taken into consideration when reading the 'information' on that site.
I know that (according to one web site for Saigo Ha something or other) Kano used a Daito practitioner to endorse Judo at the begining.
This info comes in part from that same questionable site. Again, check e-budo, Aikido Journal for info on just how illogical those statements are. There is an excellent article written by a judoka (Ben Holmes) on that. I'll try to find the link and post it.
There really is little room for so much mis-information about Daito ryu Aikijujutsu and associated arts. There's nothing wrong with making up your own stuff based on what you've learned from different teachers in different arts. But when you start trying to capatilize off of a certain name with only tenuous connections to the actual art in question...I think that is fraud.
06-15-2005, 10:25 AM
From http://www.bestjudo.com/article15.shtml :
Shiro Saigo - Judo's Secret Weapon?
Was Shiro Saigo the "secret weapon" of Judo? Did Jigoro Kano popularize his new art by using a ringer?
In 1886, the Tokyo Police Department hosted a Judo vs. Jujutsu tournament. And, although there aren't as many details available to us today as we might wish, some details are clear. For example, there seems to be no doubt that Kano's students won the majority of the matches.
This simple fact demands an explanation. What I'd like to do in this article is to examine the various claims made about this tournament (specifically dealing with Shiro Saigo), and try to sort fact from fiction.
The statements I'd like to discuss, in no particular order, are these:
1. Jigoro Kano "stacked the deck" by using students who'd previously trained in Jujutsu.
2. Shiro Saigo was one of these "deck-stacking" students of Kano. He was really a master of Daito-Ryu Jujutsu.
3. The technique that Shiro Saigo used to dispatch his opponents (Yama Arashi) was not taught in Judo. There is some doubt as to what the technique actually consisted of.
Each of these statements are readily found on either the Internet, or in various Jujutsu books.
The article goes on to debunk that myth thoroughly.
http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6310&start=0 : For some interesting revelations on 'Saigo-ha'.
Thank you for the replies. The one thing I could not help feeling when I read the replies was, that most of the replies are from the states!! I remember going to an Aikido summer camp in Seattle, Washington with a few dojo members and the dojo‘s Sensei. After the first day I realized the dojo hosting the camp was not only step above what I was used too, but also it was more of a self defense dojo; but, the dojo also had a great aura of respectfulness. But here’s the funny thing! This was the parent dojo of our dojo, and the main 7th Dan instructor said ,” Aikido is a self defense not a way of life.” This to me was a shock!!! It was Blasphemy, almost taboo :eek: . He basically said the opposite of what my Sensei told us at least every second day, which was, “Aikido is a way of life and not a self defense.” I swear I could not look my sensei in the eyes, for well, because it was awkward in a funny way. Then the 7th Dan was showing us moves that again was ironically, for the most part taboo and would never-ever be shown at our dojo in Canada. So, if and when I ever write a thread, keep these points in mind. First, Canucks are pretty mellow, and two, smoking marijuana here is legal in Canada!
The loss of time as a result of injuries is frustrating, and should not happen (injuries can often make you more wary of training as well). However I believe being a good uke is partly about being able to protect your body from injuries.
I think the self-defence aspect of aikido HAS to be realised and understood to get to grips with the philsophy behind it. Otherwise it is just people dancing around together and thinking how good they are not hurting people, with no concept of how to transcend real fear or violence.
06-16-2005, 06:39 AM
Thank you for the replies. The one thing I could not help feeling when I read the replies was, that most of the replies are from the states!! I remember going to an Aikido summer camp in Seattle, Washington with a few dojo members and the dojo‘s Sensei. After the first day I realized the dojo hosting the camp was not only step above what I was used too, but also it was more of a self defense dojo; but, the dojo also had a great aura of respectfulness. But here's the funny thing! This was the parent dojo of our dojo, and the main 7th Dan instructor said ," Aikido is a self defense not a way of life." This to me was a shock!!! It was Blasphemy, almost taboo :eek: . He basically said the opposite of what my Sensei told us at least every second day, which was, "Aikido is a way of life and not a self defense." I swear I could not look my sensei in the eyes, for well, because it was awkward in a funny way. Then the 7th Dan was showing us moves that again was ironically, for the most part taboo and would never-ever be shown at our dojo in Canada. So, if and when I ever write a thread, keep these points in mind. First, Canucks are pretty mellow, and two, smoking marijuana here is legal in Canada!
This post of yours just strengthens my previous suggestion:
look for other dojo, where both the atmosphere and the direction of the teaching will be to your liking. The teacher is much more important then the name of the M.A.
Hello! Thanks again for your replies!! I guess it simply is just that finding the right club and or teacher!! :)
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