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KamiKaze_Evolution
05-15-2005, 06:47 AM
Hello Yoshinkan folks,

Does Yoshinkan has doing spiritual & shinto excersice? I heard that Yoshinkan is realistic and going to no religion, is it just simply normal warm up excersice and waza practice?

OSU!

stuartjvnorton
05-15-2005, 08:25 AM
I've always trained it in the way you've heard.
No clapping, etc. Just Osu!

Steven
05-15-2005, 06:09 PM
Q: Does Yoshinkan has doing spiritual & shinto excersice?

Typically, no. However I'm sure there are individual dojo's in this world that may do just that.

Yoshinkan is the development of the mind and body through the repetitive practice of the basic movments and techiniques, as handed down to us by O'Sensei, via Gozo Shioda Kancho.

I wonder, what is the real question you are seeking? Your website indicates you've had various Aikido instructors including Yoshinkan teachers.

maikerus
05-15-2005, 07:01 PM
Hello Yoshinkan folks,

Does Yoshinkan has doing spiritual & shinto excersice? I heard that Yoshinkan is realistic and going to no religion, is it just simply normal warm up excersice and waza practice?

OSU!

Hey Anthony,

I wouldn't say "simply" anything. I would also stress that exercise and waza lead to more than just more exercise and waza...I wouldn't call it religion, but it certainly is self growth and personal development.

My few yen,

--Michael

xuzen
05-15-2005, 11:12 PM
Hello Yoshinkan folks,

Does Yoshinkan has doing spiritual & shinto exercises? I heard that Yoshinkan is realistic and going to no religion, is it just simply normal warm up exercises and waza practice?

OSU!

Hello Anthony,

No shinto nor spiritual exercise emphasis in my dojo. Religion is also not mentioned at all in class. Yes, our class start with normal warm exercise then proceed with waza practice and end up with randori session.

There is no religious, quasi-religious, nor spiritual emphasis in our dojo. What you'd expect are study of kineaslogy, bio-mechanical and its manipulation to achieve realistic martial application. We also use bio-feedback (feelings) to help us learn how to effectively apply the techniques. So pretty down to earth, hard practice. Ki or religious study are up to individual; but outside mat time on your own effort.

Boon.

KamiKaze_Evolution
05-16-2005, 05:30 AM
Q: Does Yoshinkan has doing spiritual & shinto excersice?

Typically, no. However I'm sure there are individual dojo's in this world that may do just that.

Yoshinkan is the development of the mind and body through the repetitive practice of the basic movments and techiniques, as handed down to us by O'Sensei, via Gozo Shioda Kancho.

I wonder, what is the real question you are seeking? Your website indicates you've had various Aikido instructors including Yoshinkan teachers.

I do mean funakogi, furitama, kodotama, etc.................

Kevin Temple
07-28-2005, 11:28 AM
In my classes, there is no mention of spirituality or religion, nor is there ever any mention of this "ki" stuff, it is simply repetition of techniques and learning how to use both your body mechanics and your opponents

ad_adrian
08-12-2005, 06:50 PM
i do yoshinkan...and i beleive it can be as spiritual or un spiritual as you want it to be

KamiKaze_Evolution
10-20-2006, 01:22 AM
i do yoshinkan...and i beleive it can be as spiritual or un spiritual as you want it to be

I have return to Shudokan Dojo in Seri Kembangan since half year ago, Ramlan Sensei doesn't teach Shinto things around there. Christians can practice Yoshinkan Aikido without any nervous as i have to watch, he never bows to shomen or kamiza evenly keiko starts and finishes. We're just bow with sensei or each others, nothing with Shinto or Omotokyo like what did O Sensei teach about.

ian
10-20-2006, 05:34 AM
Hello Yoshinkan folks,

Does Yoshinkan has doing spiritual & shinto excersice? I heard that Yoshinkan is realistic and going to no religion, is it just simply normal warm up excersice and waza practice?

OSU!

I'm not Yoshinkan, but I resent the idea that you think aikido has a religious aspect. Ueshiba stated specifically that what he is teaching is not religion and that his religion is his own! Ki development might be related to spiritual exerices, but surely aikido techniques are supposed to be ki practise as well?

The real practise IS the spiritual aspect, surely? I would have nothing to do with anyone who considers aikido to be religious. (I'm not referring to yourself, but to instructors who would say this) - maybe its a translation thing, but in the UK at least there is a big difference between religion and spirituality.

Ron Tisdale
10-20-2006, 08:05 AM
This can be a very interesting, and somewhat contentious issue in some quarters.

I have to agree with the majority of posters when they say that Yoshinkan aikido does not overtly teach religeon. Self development and spiritual issues are left up to the individual to treat as they wish. But...to say that there are none of the types of exercises specifically referenced "funakogi, furitama, kodotama", etc., might not be strictly accurate. In that one viewpoint of exercises like these is that they are exercises to develop certain body skills, and not just religeous rituals, I think it would be a mistake to dismiss them. I have seen "the rowing exercise" practised in yoshinkan dojo, and our warm ups are standard enough in Ki_society dojo that a 6th dan from that school remarked "those are ki exercises". Now, of course, they have never been referred to as "ki exercises" to me by any Yoshinkan instructor. It is worth noting however, that chinkon kishin, which has it's roots in esoteric shintoism, is a part of those warm ups, and has also been described as a form of marital qi gong.

So....no, no overt religeous tones, but there are elements that have had religeous tones in the past, that are kept because of their application to physical aspects of training, in my opinion.

Best,
Ron

David Orange
10-21-2006, 06:08 PM
This can be a very interesting, and somewhat contentious issue in some quarters.

I have to agree with the majority of posters when they say that Yoshinkan aikido does not overtly teach religeon. Self development and spiritual issues are left up to the individual to treat as they wish. But...

Yes, Ron. I find it interesting that Shioda sensei chose the name "yo-shin-kan". The "yo" is the same as in "yoseikan," meaning "to cultivate." But the "shin" is the same as in "shinto"--meaning "kami" or "god." So "yoshinkan" can be read as "the place to cultivate god (or "the gods")".

For what that's worth.

Best wishes.

David

deepsoup
10-22-2006, 03:42 AM
Yes, Ron. I find it interesting that Shioda sensei chose the name "yo-shin-kan".
While he obviously thought "Yoshinkan" was a suitable name for his dojo, I thought he didn't so much choose it as 'inherit' it in honour of his father.

Adam Huss
10-22-2006, 10:11 AM
This is true, Sean. Shioda Sensei took over his father's dojo, the Yoshinkan. The method of aikido that he taught was named after that dojo.

Steven
10-22-2006, 12:54 PM
Shioda did not "take over" his fathers dojo. The original Yoshinkan Aikido dojo was financed by a business men and they placed Shioda in charge, hence the title of Kancho. The name Yoshinkan was the same name his father used for his kendo and judo school. The shin, as translated by the Yoshinkai Foundation is "spirit", or House to cultivate the spirit.

This is all documented at Aikido Journal/AikiNews as well as in the prologue of Total Aikido where Shioda Yasuhisa says "to cultivate mind and spirit" as the translation.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4922&highlight=1954

Ron Tisdale
10-23-2006, 07:48 AM
Steven already corrected the misunderstanding (Hi Steven!). Best to all the yoshin orcs on the thread!

Ron

KamiKaze_Evolution
10-24-2006, 10:28 PM
Yes, Ron. I find it interesting that Shioda sensei chose the name "yo-shin-kan". The "yo" is the same as in "yoseikan," meaning "to cultivate." But the "shin" is the same as in "shinto"--meaning "kami" or "god." So "yoshinkan" can be read as "the place to cultivate god (or "the gods")".

For what that's worth.

Best wishes.

David

Dave,

It's incorrect, Yo Shin Kan means house or hall of cultivate spirit not gods. It's seishin not kami as you said about. "Shin" has other varation and other than religious, such as you are strong spirit, tired or sleepy. It's other than religous of "shin character", not "reikon".

KamiKaze_Evolution
10-24-2006, 10:35 PM
Ramlan Sensei had share with me briefly about ki concept of Yoshinkan Aikido, that is timing and energy not "chi" as peoples consider about. If i wanna practice "chi", he says i rather practice "qigong" than martial arts. So, anybody can share with me furtherly?

Adam Huss
10-27-2006, 06:34 AM
Shioda did not "take over" his fathers dojo. The original Yoshinkan Aikido dojo was financed by a business men and they placed Shioda in charge, hence the title of Kancho. The name Yoshinkan was the same name his father used for his kendo and judo school. The shin, as translated by the Yoshinkai Foundation is "spirit", or House to cultivate the spirit.

This is all documented at Aikido Journal/AikiNews as well as in the prologue of Total Aikido where Shioda Yasuhisa says "to cultivate mind and spirit" as the translation.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4922&highlight=1954


Steve,

Just to clarify, Shioda Gozo's Yoshinkan dojo and Shioda Seiichi's Yoshinkan dojo were at seperate locations?

Ron Tisdale
10-27-2006, 07:32 AM
I believe that is correct, seperate locations.

Best,
Ron

MM
10-27-2006, 10:50 AM
Steve,

Just to clarify, Shioda Gozo's Yoshinkan dojo and Shioda Seiichi's Yoshinkan dojo were at seperate locations?

Hello Adam,

That's my understanding of it, also. The elder Shioda's dojo was built in the early 1900s, I believe. The article at Aikido Journal (link below) mentions the younger Shioda's dojo being constructed 1954-55.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=71

Mark

Steven
10-27-2006, 11:05 AM
Steve,

Just to clarify, Shioda Gozo's Yoshinkan dojo and Shioda Seiichi's Yoshinkan dojo were at seperate locations?

Who's Steve? :freaky:

As stated above, that is correct.

Adam Huss
10-27-2006, 08:21 PM
Who's Steve? :freaky:

As stated above, that is correct.

Osu!

Sorry about that Miranda Sensei. Belive it or not that was a typo! Thanks again for the clarification....I was under the wrong impresison (beware of 4-inch knowledge!).

Osu!

~Adam

Keith R Lee
10-27-2006, 08:37 PM
I hear you have alot of knowledge about things 4 inches long Adam... :p

How are things in....where are you now???

Last time we saw each other was almost a year ago? I think you said you were looking to be transferred. PM if you want.

Steven
10-28-2006, 07:49 PM
Osu!

Sorry about that Miranda Sensei. Belive it or not that was a typo! Thanks again for the clarification....I was under the wrong impresison (beware of 4-inch knowledge!).

Osu!

~Adam

No problem Adam. And please just call me Steven.

Cheers ...

Charlie
11-09-2006, 08:40 AM
How bout Steve-o? Can we call you Steve-o...

KamiKaze_Evolution
11-09-2006, 01:02 PM
I have exactly understand about ki concept of Yoshinkan Aikido, i was actually buy "Total Aikido" and such concept has mentioned in that book. Yoshinkan Aikido isn't magic or miracle, i do mean that "Ogi" or "hidden techniques" performed by Shioda Gozo Soke.

Steven
11-09-2006, 02:15 PM
How bout Steve-o? Can we call you Steve-o...

You've called me worst ... :blush:

KamiKaze_Evolution
01-10-2007, 05:13 AM
Ramlan Sensei says that Yoshinkan Aikido is 100% self-defense skills not magic or qigong, this makes an advantage for me to explain to those Christians or Muslims regards Ki Concept of Yoshinkan Aikido.

KamiKaze_Evolution
03-11-2007, 08:27 AM
Why so quiet everybody? have nothing to say about

JAMJTX
03-11-2007, 04:26 PM
My own experience with Yoshinkan has been primarily Police oriented. To my knowledge, Yoshinkan training does not include those practices that can be seen as religous in nature. The focus is on self defense and forging the mind body and spirit (but forging the spirit in a non-religous sense).

Anthony - just out of curiousity since it's not covered on the web site: How did the Yoshinkan group you train with get started? Are they still part of IYAF? How was the founder connected to Shioda Sensei back in the 50's? Thanks.

Steven
03-11-2007, 05:38 PM
Anthony - just out of curiousity since it's not covered on the web site: How did the Yoshinkan group you train with get started? Are they still part of IYAF? How was the founder connected to Shioda Sensei back in the 50's? Thanks.

What website are you looking at? Anthony indicates who his teacher is and their website clearly indicates they are IYAF registered and has their complete history.

http://www.shudokanmalaysia.com/index_my.htm

JAMJTX
03-11-2007, 05:52 PM
Thanks. I missed that and looked at the anthonywong4ever site.

KamiKaze_Evolution
03-12-2007, 09:25 AM
My own experience with Yoshinkan has been primarily Police oriented. To my knowledge, Yoshinkan training does not include those practices that can be seen as religous in nature. The focus is on self defense and forging the mind body and spirit (but forging the spirit in a non-religous sense).

Anthony - just out of curiousity since it's not covered on the web site: How did the Yoshinkan group you train with get started? Are they still part of IYAF? How was the founder connected to Shioda Sensei back in the 50's? Thanks.

Thambyrajah Sensei went to Japan for further study, he learnt Judo under Mifune Kyuzo and Harayoshi Ichijima and Yoshinkan Aikido under the Soke. After he returned to Malaysia, he started Aikido Shudokan Dojo at Seremban. Thambyrajah has no longer to teach Judo because nikajo osae waza, i am not very sure regard further story.

Shudokan Institute of Aikido is independent organization, but Aikido Shudokan is still remains with IYAF. Very much peoples asked how come my sensei gets 3rd Dan in Yoshinkan from 2nd Dan in Shudokan, until now he doesn't answer it yet. Nevermind, Si Wilson gives us a good answer. Whatever, relationship between Aikido Shudokan KL and Shudokan Institute of Aikido Seremban are still close.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7041&highlight=Shudokan

Thanks for your comment, but i know the truth already after return to beside Ramlan Ahmed Sensei at few years later left from his old dojo. As i trust him, a year already i stay at Shudokan from that moment.

http://www.aikidoshudokan.com

Bill Danosky
03-12-2007, 09:36 PM
It seemed like there was a disagreement over translation of "spirit" earlier, as in, "House of cultivating the ..."

I always assumed by "spirit" Kancho was referring to an uplifted level of effort and intensity. Like what they score you on for your 7th kyu test.

I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of belief in the metaphysical amongst the Yoshinkan Shihan I've studied under. Formality and traditional ceremony, yes. Religiously spiritual ceremony? I've never seen it.